Iron Hands at Istvaan

[geordie]

Hello all,

 

I was wondering if anyone could shed some light on a seemingly contradictory issue;

 

It's my understanding that the entire Salamander and Raven Guard Legions deployed on Istvaan V. However was the Iron Hands presence Legion strong aswell? The Lexicanum website references ten elite companies of terminators alongside Ferrus Manus leading the assault but what about the rest of the Legion?

 

It's stated in Fulgrim? that Ferrus took the Legions fastest ships and his elite troops to Istvaan and attacked as soon as he could. This is giving me the impression it was just his elite companies. However, other sources mention the three loyalist Legions almost being wiped out to a man. Surely if the rest of the Iron Hand Legion didn't get massacred they would have played a significant part in the rest of the heresy and defence of Terra?

 

Do you guys think that the Loyalist Legions were even there in their entirety? I mean as a general rule each Legion would be spread around the galaxy. It's been stated that some units from different Legions fought campaigns together to gain experience and build up positive comraderie between the two. Examples being the Emperors Children fighting alongside the Sons of Horus/Luna Wolves. The close bonds between the Emperors Children and the Iron Hands was not just between Primarchs. In Fulgrim the officers and troops know each other suggesting they've fought together in a past campaign.

 

Does it seem likely that there were stragglers from other parts of the galaxy that turned up in the Istvaan system after the fight was over? I.e. a smallish fleet of Iron Hands delayed in the warp turning up to find their Legion dessimated and Ferrus in bad shape. They'd obviously be fired upon by the traitor fleet upon entry to the system if they were still hanging around. I was thinking of making a small warband of Iron Hands that did just that, arriving late and being forced to flee just moments after emerging in the system. Their contribution in the rest of the heresy would obviously be symbolic rather than meaningful. I just think it would be cool to have a couple of hundred bitter Iron Hands who missed Istvaan making a defiant stand on Terra, outnumbered 100-1 against whole companies of Emperors Children, dying to a man but with a wry smile on their lips as a final 'up yours' to the traitors.

 

I suppose the 'handful' of Istvaan survivors would have been allowed to fight at the siege of Terra since there was a geneseed stock hidden away anyway. It's not like the death of the remaining few would mean the end of the Legion. Furthermore, who would have the cajuns to tell them they had to sit this one out?

 

If you've read this far i congratulate you for your patience with my brain vomit :)

 

Thoughts most welcome.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

All the way back to the original Index Astartes article for the Iron Hands indicates that only the elite, veteran formations of the Legion were present -- the majority of which were TDA-equipped. The rest of the Legion wouldn't have shown up at Isstvan until after the Warmaster's forces had moved on and begun their inevitable march on Terra. Personally, I'd love to see some fiction about the rest of the Legion showing up to bear witness to the aftermath. . . .

[Commander S. Caesare]

From what i read (Fulgrim?), I remember Ferrus taking his ELITE companies to Istvaan. The rest of the Legion continued to Terra for preparation.

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

he only took the elites, the rest were sent home to rebuild/rearm i believe.

 

WLK

[Kizzdougs]

Ferrus only took the 1st company. The rest of the legion was to follow as quickly as possible once they had recovered from Fulgrim's devastating attack.

[geordie]

Thanks for the replies guys.

 

It would be great to find out what the rest of the Legion got upto after Istvaan. Despite losing the majority of their commanders you've got to remember that the 1st Company would only have been about 10% of the Legion as far as basic numbers are concerned? That leaves around 90% in numbers minus the obvious immeasurable loss of the 1st Companies leadership. Surely even with a lack of leadership the sheer numbers of 90% of a Legion would make a massive contribution to the events of the heresy. If the bulk of the Iron Hands Legion made for Terra you'd think there would be more information about their contribution at the siege of the Emperors Palace. The Fists, Angels and Scars get plenty of kudos for their actions during the siege.

 

I would expect a Legion who had lost their Primarch to do everything possible to have their vengence. Perhaps a Heresy/Scouring themed army who go on to hunt the Emperors Children would be cool.

 

cheers

[Olis]

Thanks for the replies guys.

 

It would be great to find out what the rest of the Legion got upto after Istvaan. Despite losing the majority of their commanders you've got to remember that the 1st Company would only have been about 10% of the Legion as far as basic numbers are concerned? That leaves around 90% in numbers minus the obvious immeasurable loss of the 1st Companies leadership. Surely even with a lack of leadership the sheer numbers of 90% of a Legion would make a massive contribution to the events of the heresy. If the bulk of the Iron Hands Legion made for Terra you'd think there would be more information about their contribution at the siege of the Emperors Palace. The Fists, Angels and Scars get plenty of kudos for their actions during the siege.

 

I would expect a Legion who had lost their Primarch to do everything possible to have their vengence. Perhaps a Heresy/Scouring themed army who go on to hunt the Emperors Children would be cool.

 

cheers

 

In percentage terms remember the average size of a legion was quite a bit more than ten companies - so the IH could have, conceivably, lost less than five percent of the legion at Isstvan V, assuming the legion was (a conservative) twenty companies. :)

 

In regards to where the IH would have been during the Siege, I'd speculate that IF they were hunting down Fulgrim's sons (who were on Terra), then a possible reason the IH weren't there could be that they had been misled, perhaps by the Alpha Legion, as to the whereabouts of the Emperor's Children. But this is, after all, idle speculation. 2 + 2 = 5 and all that. :D

[Iron Father Ferrum]

Well, there was a story in Age of Darkness that showed that the Hands were still active between Isstvan and Terra, intervening in the myriad small conflicts that followed as Horus made his march to the Solar System. What I think is most likely is that devoid of their senior leadership, each Clan decided to basically go their own way. Some probably raided Traitor fleets and Horusian-flagged star systems, some purged and/or reconquered traitor worlds. . . its entirely possible that the Hands were tasked by the new loyalist Fabricator General to reclaim as many Forge Worlds as possible from the Traitors to give the Mechanicum as a whole a fighting chance of survivng if Terra and the Emperor did indeed fall. If they're operating "behind enemy lines" the whole time interdicting Horus' supplies, it would explain why they were only ever recorded as present at one major battle of the Heresy aside from Isstvan (being Tallarn).

[Piousservant]

Though their actual losses might be relatively small (compared to the size of the Legion), the IH lost their best and brightest on Istvaan - including their Primarch, Ferrus Manus himself. That alone would have been a huge blow - I pretty sure he's the first Primarch to have been killed?

[Olis]

I believe he was, yes.

 

One would also think that if there were any Terrans left in the IH they'd probably have been a vet in the first company - so the majority of 'original' Terran legionnaires left at the start of the heresy would be destined to die on Isstvan V. Is that assumption reasonable?

[Coryphaus 101]

I think if the IH where on Terra they'd probably fighting the Emperor's Children (and thus not at the Imperial Palace). It's also possible they were tricked by the AL or, a somewhat cooler possibility, that they were running rampant behind the traitors lines.