"Zero Day" Grey Knights

[Something Wycked]

I've put a lot of thought into high mobility Grey Knight forces, with a focus on effectively damaging the enemy on turn one in spite of the Grey Knights' limited range. Of course, I won't focus exclusively on turn one- a lot can happen between then and turn seven!

 

I want to put this thread together as a means of dumping my ideas into one spot, as well as brainstorming with my B&C brethren on items that would work with this list, enchance the list... anything about the list type, really.

 

Tactics are my bread and butter, and I've been wanting to create a tactica to add to the Librarium for a long time now. Ideally, this thread will turn into such a project :P

 

What inspired me about this army style is I'm a shooting and mobility oriented player. When you look at the Jump Infantry of any other Astartes codex, invariably they are assault-oriented troops. They aren't even terribly effective against my primary opponents (MEQ) in most instances- Skyclaws have WS3, Codex Marines have only one potential power weapon in the squad and the same issue for Blood Angels. Vanguard can be effective since they can all have power weapons and special gear, but they get expensive quickly and need just the right loadout and to be guided by a skilled hand.

 

For me, Interceptors solve all of these issues. They're Jump Infantry and have the mobility I need, but their primary focus (in my eyes) is shooting. They come standard with Stormbolters, can be upgraded with Psybolts and a full squad can also carry a pair of Psycannons. I've seen no other Astartes army that has mobile firepower like Interceptors. On top of that, they get the same (unimpressive) amount of attacks as Tactical Marines so I'm not tempted to use them as assault troops, but if I'm forced to use them as such they all have force weapons and can defend themselves decently well.

 

The concept starts with Interceptors and/or Dreadknights equipped with Personal Teleporters (hereafter known as PTDKs); these two units are the most mobile entries in the army with the sole exception of Stormravens. (I'm excluding Deep Striking units, since their one instance of mobility is deployment, and with the exception of Mordrak do not have any effect on turn one.) Assuming just a tiny (6") deployment zone, Interceptors can reach the opposite end of the board through a normal, non-shunt movement and their Stormbolter/Psycannon range. Add Scout via Grand Strategy to that movement and they can reach quite a distance, still without using their once-only shunt.

 

As said earlier, comments and criticisms are all welcome :) I'll add to this as other ideas are explored.

 

Depository for ideas:

 

Begin Article...

 

Zero Day Grey Knights

 

Original Concept

 

For those unfamiliar with the term, "zero day" is a reference to computer vulnerabilities, specifically when a hacker exploits a computer's vulnerability in a way previously unknown to security companies. That day is called "day zero" and the response of security companies to the problem is measured in days from that point on.

 

Grey Knights have the ability to field extraordinarily fast, foot mounted mobile firepower. When you think of mobile firepower, often the first things that come to mind are vehicles- Predators, Vindicators, Land Raiders. More speed-oriented players will think of bikes and Land Speeders carrying their forces' mobile firepower. Grey Knights can field a very threatening amount of firepower on their infantry and Dreadknights. Whats more, this infantry can be even more mobile than standard Astartes Jump Infantry- Personal Teleporters allow for a very long Shunt movement once per game.

 

Putting these two aspects together- heavy firepower and high mobility- mixes the best of both the Fire and Air play styles, and is something truly unique among the power armored codices. (If you haven't read Silent Requiem's Way of the Water Warrior, I highly recommend you do so, as he explains the other three elemental styles of warfare as well.) There are other armies that can perform significant attacks on the first turn of the game, but not many of them wear power armor.

 

What I've termed the "zero day" list comes down to this: Grey Knights fielding almost entirely high-mobility units can strike when and where they choose on the battlefield, hitting places your opponent is not prepared to defend. These "surprise attacks" exploit vulnerabilities your opponent may or may not know he had. What I love most about this play style is the variety. Using only one principle- mobile firepower- you can enact nearly endless tactics on the board, all custom tailored to fit any opponent you play. Even your regular opponents will be hard pressed to compensate for every tactic you can employ.

 

With that said, enjoy!

 

Core Units

 

More Interceptors/PTDKs: Maybe this is stating the obvious, but adding more Interceptors and PTDKs to the army will certainly increase its turn one shock value. This can get pricey, however; a well-equipped squad of Interceptors can easily run 300 points, and a PTDK starts at 205. Including three of each for a tournament style unit spam is easily over 1500 points! The possibility also exists to Outflank either of these units, threatening a surprise shooting and/or assault round from an unexpected angle.

 

Additional Units/Concepts

 

Deep Striking/The Summoning: While these won't help you in turn one (outside of Mordrak arriving on turn one) they can certainly assist your Zero Day force by quickly bringing reinforcements to bear in successive turns. While your opponent is busily figuring out a way to deal with the majority of your army that has already struck his, you are already preparing to throw the rest of your list right into his face. The Summoning will obviously be limited to a force that includes a Librarian, but its applications are relatively easy; position a Librarian forward on the board, use the power successfully, and redeploy a unit that was in cover deep in your deployment zone into your opponent's half of the board. Servo Skulls will be invaluable for this particular ability. Having a unit with Psychic Communion can certainly help to bring your Reserves to bear more quickly and more reliably; having two can dramatically change the flow of Reserves in your favor. With two models that successfully use Psychic Communion, your Reserves roll chart can look like this: Turn 2: 2+, Turn 3+: Auto, or alternately like this: Turn 2: 6+, Turn 3: 5+, Turn 4: 4+, Turn 5: Auto. Any mixture of the two is possible as well since the power specifically allows you to modify each of your Reserves rolls in either direction.

 

HQ

 

Mordrak: With his no-scatter arrival on turn one and the addition of Grand Strategy to the Army, he's at first glance a decent choice for this type of army build. Unfortunately for him, neither he nor his retinue of Ghost Knights can upgrade their Stormbolters to Psycannons, making his arrival on turn one lackluster. There are a couple great options for sprucing up his squad- a Librarian with Warp Rift/Vortex or a Malleus Inquisitor with a Psycannon. However, this is all very expensive; point costs range from about 500 to 600 or more. Especially in mid to low point games, this doesn't leave very much room for the rest of the army. The value in this for a Zero Day force therefore lies in forcing the opponent to make a decision on which unit to focus on.

 

Librarian/Stormraven: This is a particularly potent combination. The ruling on Stormravens that includes their wings as 'hull' has greatly expanded the range of powers used by the Librarian inside- even greater ranges than that of a Librarian inside a Land Raider. Of special interest are Shrouding and Sanctuary, the two defensive powers. Shrouding in particular has excellent synergy with the Stormraven, increasing its Flat Out cover save to 3+. Might and Quicksilver are also enhanced; launching an assault from the Stormraven on turn two (or even the potential for a Scouting unit of Interceptors to assault on turn one, depending on deployment) can be well supported by the Librarian's increased range.

 

Librarian/Stormraven/Mystic: The focus here is not so much on turn one, but on effective mobility for the army throughout the game without depending on Chimeras or Rhinos. Through a combination of no-scatter Deep Strike and no-scatter Summoning, this three unit combination can deliver new units and existing units to the critical area of the battlefield with precision. Example: the Stormraven and Interceptors/PTDKs move up on turn one, leaving behind a unit or two near the home objective. On turn two, a bit of luck, and a unit arrives from Deep Strike- placed in the huge no-scatter shadow of the Stormraven's hull. Simultaneously, the Librarian Summons the unit left on the home objective for additional firepower- adding two more units to the host already in the enemy's deployment zone.

 

Coteaz: This bargain HQ fits a Zero Day list like a glove. He functions as "turn one insurance" for your force: your opponent has to roll a pair of 6's in succession to Steal the Initiative, while you have two chances to Steal. He also can cast Sanctuary which is definitely helpful for many lists who do not want to be assaulted- such as my shooting-heavy force. The only bit of him that doesn't really fit is the ability to take Henchmen as Troops. I simply do not see them as mobile enough to fit with the Zero Day theme without an investment like a Stormraven to help them with that. This isn't much of a setback, however; he is fully worth his cost even if you bring no Henchmen to the table.

 

Troops

 

Strike Squad: These Troops have a surprising amount versatility for this style of list. While they're only standard Infantry and therefore slow they can fill a number of very handy roles. First, the obvious: home objective sitter. Not much needs to be said on that. Second: offensive and defensive Deep Strikers. Their ability to Reserve and drop anywhere on the board can be very handy, especially when combined with the stacking Psychic Communion detailed in this article. Third, and probably most fitting with the Zero Day list type, is their amazing 38" firing range when mounted in a Rhino at the start of a game (12" move, 2" disembark, 24" range; the 38" number does not take deployment zones into account!)

 

Elites

 

Vindicare: This Assassin is basically perfect for this army style. Infiltrate allowing him to set up last, in the perfect position to put the hurt on the opposing army in turn one. He can both pop units out of their transports for your Interceptors/PTDKs to fire on, or he can pick out models that are particularly dangerous to your fast moving force and remove them.

 

Venerable Dreadnought: See the Heavy Support section.

 

Fast Attack

 

Stormraven: With the Stormraven's ability to move flat out and still fire a weapon, it is a modestly effective part of a Zero Day list. Add in the fact that the Stormraven can equip a TL-Multimelta or a TL-Psycannon and this is relatively potent turn of shooting. Consider the synergy; not only can Interceptors be in range to give the Stormraven supporting fire (perhaps firing on the squad that the Stormraven just popped out of their transport), but the Stormraven can carry a demi-squad of Interceptors that can disembark safely anywhere along the Stormraven's flight path via Shadow Skies. One part of this flight path is just behind where the Stormraven stopped moving, meaning this half squad of Interceptors would be further advanced than the rest of them, providing arguably better support. For an extra bit of punch, make this a Combat Squad of Interceptors that includes both of the squad's Psycannons.

 

Heavy Support

 

Psyfleman Dreadnoughts: This is a Dreadnought (or Venerable Dreadnought) equipped with Twin-Linked Autocannons on each arm, and Psybolts. Four shots, long range, S8 AP4. These are arguably the premier light vehicle destroying units in the game- and they belong in this tactica due to their ability to reach out on turn 1 and pop your opponent's squads out of their transports, as well as put the hurt on light and medium infantry units. They lack mobility, but really don't need it to be effective. What will need to be prepared for is your opponent Outflanking or Deep Striking units that can destroy your Dreadnoughts who may be alone in your backfield.

 

Wargear

 

Conversion Beamer: A model carrying this weapon can reach out and touch the opposing force quite easily from turn one onwards, and at long range like that has the potential to be very damaging as a S10 AP1 small blast template, or as a S8 AP4 small blast template. This weapon also carries a side benefit; in normal Grey Knights forces, it can encourage your opponent to move forward, out of the Conversion Beamer's sweet spot into your advancing units' shooting range. In a Zero Day list, however, the opposite will be true- your opponent should be so busy dealing with the forces already in and around his deployment zone to close the distance to the Conversion Beamer, preserving its potency through a longer portion of the game.

 

Servo Skulls: These pieces of wargear are a bargain. They not only provide the Deep Striking elements of your force a greater degree of accuracy, but they also constrict your opponent's deployment options for Infiltrators and Scouts. However, correctly utilizing them will take some thought. They need to be placed adjacent to likely zones of conflict to aid your scatter rolls, but this will likely put them at risk of easy removal by your opponent. A careful balance must be achieved- close enough to your desired areas of Deep Striking, but not so far forward that you cannot defend them from your opponent. Additionally (or alternatively), if you are facing an opponent that will utilize Scouts or Infiltrators, you can place the Servo Skulls in such a way that your opponent must deploy/move these units in such a way that is detrimental to his battle plan or beneficial to yours. Example: combine the 12" Scout buffer around your own units with the 12" radius buffer around the Servo Skulls; you now have a 36" no-go zone for both Scout moves and Infiltrators. A more risky move would be to disallow other areas of the board to your opponent such that his Infiltrators must be deployed isolated from his main force. With the Zero Day's focus on mobility, you are free to choose to deal with the Infiltrators first or to ignore them and proceed to assault your opponent's deployment zone. However, this would almost necessitate the Servo Skulls being deployed very close to your opponent's forces, and therefore will almost certainly be removed from the table early on and prevent you from using them for your Deep Striking units.

 

Conclusion

 

You may have noticed that this is the Conclusion and there was no specific look at tactics for Zero Day lists; there are a few reasons for this. Firstly, each entry above has in its description the justification for why it works with a Zero Day list with a brief description of tactics. Secondly, everyone's list will be different and may function radically different from one another. Thirdly, tactics need to change depending on opponent, opposing army list, objectives, and terrain. Covering all of those variables would require something with a novel's length.

 

Tactically, I firmly believe in two things: firepower is the king of warfare, and mobility is the king of warfare. Contradictory? Maybe. I don't think they are. You can have all the firepower in the world, but if it is not mobile enough to reach where you need to apply that firepower, it is useless. Mobility without sufficient firepower to back it up is also useless. Blend the two together, however, and you have a fearsome fighting force.

 

Use mobility to control the course of battle. Deny your opponent the ability to engage you on his terms while engaging him on your terms- use your mobility to strike when appropriate and retreat or hide behind cover when appropriate. Destroy your opponent's mobility to make him a stationary target.

 

Strike first, strike hard, win the day.

[DarkGuard]

It looks good. I'm surprised you wrote of the Libby with Mordrak so quickly. You can give him a teleport homer to allow deep striking units to land close, and you can always give him Summoning for those smaller unit, worth having a look at IMO, although that unit is a bit pricy.

 

Also, when you say TL-psycannons on SRs do you actually mean TL-assault cannons with psybolt ammo?

[Cmdr Shepard]

A Librarian will also add some ranged fire potential to Mordrak squad. Warp rift can be the source of nasty events for your opponente and I'm not just mentioning the chance to remove infantry models but even the possibility to put an exepnsive vehicle out of order.

 

I can add a couple of options I read/saw around.

 

Conversion Beamer can offer I first turn attack at S10 AP1, except in Dawn of War deployment. Personally I tried conversion beamer only once and it was responsible for the death of 3 models, even though the were Obliterators. Several players use at least 2 conversion beamer as long range fire support, offering the enemy this alternative: "Suffer the S10 AP1 blast or move closer to my 24" death range".

 

Psy-rifle Dreads, with their 48" can potentially kill enemy models from the first turn.

 

Even though those units are not highly mobile they can still damage enemy army starting from turn 1.

 

Since you mentioned the Stormraven/Mystic option I can quote the use of Teleport Homer on Stormravens. It will have a more limited use, namely less units will benefit from it, though.

[thade]

I like this thread.

 

I will add that it makes some sense not to include DS units in these theories as - in the GK army - nothing DSs until at least Turn 2...and the foundation here is a Turn 1 assault. However, I do recommend expanding the foundation to include DSs as an effective Turn 1 engagement (in the way you're suggesting here) could be strengthened significantly by a Communion-guided second turn DS. That gives you some interesting options with Paladins, Strike Squads, the Callidus, PTDKs that you didn't scout, etc.

 

Also, I like the idea of conversion beamers as a baiting weapon: reminds me of Lootas in Ork lists.

[Cmdr Shepard]

I like this thread.

 

I will add that it makes some sense not to include DS units in these theories as - in the GK army - nothing DSs until at least Turn 2...and the foundation here is a Turn 1 assault. However, I do recommend expanding the foundation to include DSs as an effective Turn 1 engagement (in the way you're suggesting here) could be strengthened significantly by a Communion-guided second turn DS. That gives you some interesting options with Paladins, Strike Squads, the Callidus, PTDKs that you didn't scout, etc.

 

Also, I like the idea of conversion beamers as a baiting weapon: reminds me of Lootas in Ork lists.

 

I never used DS during the games I played. It may seems "odd" but I don't want to lose an expensive unit due to mishap.

Mordrak and the Callidus would be two exceptions. However I alway fear the DS Callidus can get killed before she is able to charge since she cannot assualt on the same turn she arrives. Right?

 

I read the conversion beamer's tactic here on B&C. I thought about it as soon as I read the GK codex but I never had the chance to test it. Someone here on B&C did :D

I plan to try two Conversion Bearmer armed Tech-Marine soon. I still don't know If I should bring their number up to 3....

[thade]

I never used DS during the games I played. It may seems "odd" but I don't want to lose an expensive unit due to mishap.

Teleport homers are a bit hard to get (they come on Librarians and Storm Ravens) but you can cheaply spam Servo-skulls to mitigate this significantly; might be worth trying.

 

Mordrak and the Callidus would be two exceptions. However I alway fear the DS Callidus can get killed before she is able to charge since she cannot assualt on the same turn she arrives. Right?

I went to bat for the Callidus (my new favorite underdog) in this thread here. DSing sans Heroic Intervention-like assault powers is a nerf, but hardly makes her useless.

 

I read the conversion beamer's tactic here on B&C. I thought about it as soon as I read the GK codex but I never had the chance to test it. Someone here on B&C did :)

I plan to try two Conversion Bearmer armed Tech-Marine soon. I still don't know If I should bring their number up to 3....

I'm going to proxy this, I think, before I go to the trouble of trying to build one; I honestly have no idea how I'd model it (short of going FW). I definitely want at least two. Something else I've considered is techmarine/Orbital Strike spam, which I am definitely going to try.

[Cmdr Shepard]

I'm going to proxy this, I think, before I go to the trouble of trying to build one; I honestly have no idea how I'd model it (short of going FW). I definitely want at least two. Something else I've considered is techmarine/Orbital Strike spam, which I am definitely going to try.

 

There is pic of the Conversion beamer on pag. 59 C:GK, as you may know but I have no idea how to build a weapon like that. Proxy seems the only way to do this fpr the moment.

I'm thinking about using the "ancient" Space Marine ML from this FW Kit:

 

Space Marine Special Weapons Pack

 

I could add some psilencer "cables" where the missiles are visible just to change the look.

 

An Orbital Strike spam could be the only way to use this type of weapons: with three of them you should hit something ;)

Beside one of Orbital strike's attacks is a barrage, if I remember correctly, thus you can fire without LOS and since youe attack scatters alway 2d6 you want suffer additional disadvantages :)

The only issue is its cost: Conversion beamer cost 30 pts less, 90 pts in a three tech-marines list.

In a "fluff" context I'd really like to use Orbital strike since I created a background "story" about the advanced starship used by my GK Task Force. B) An orbital strike would fit perfectly with such background.

 

I'll read the thread about the Callidus immediatly.

[DarkGuard]

Forgive me Cmdr Shephard but I feel you may be missing the point, although only Something Wycked can confirm this. Psyfleman Dreads and conversion beamers are nothing new to being able to attack first turn, and are quite obvious. I was under the impression that Cmdr Shephard was actually referring to those units that could get to the enemy's deployment zone or at least just outside and but the pressure on immediately when they get there. But I may be wrong.

[Something Wycked]

It looks good. I'm surprised you wrote of the Libby with Mordrak so quickly. You can give him a teleport homer to allow deep striking units to land close, and you can always give him Summoning for those smaller unit, worth having a look at IMO, although that unit is a bit pricy.

Very pricy; easily 1/3 of your army in a 1500 point game, and they're only 7 models!

 

In considering the Teleport Homer, it is a sub-par piece of wargear for the Librarian unless you will be counting on at least a few units to arrive in close proximity via Deep Strike. The issue with this method is that the Grey Knights are a very small army; if you have two or three units waiting to Deep Strike, then Mordrak, his Ghost Knights, and the Libby are nearly the only thing on the table, and the opponent can easily focus everything on them. In addition to that, The Summoning does not reap any benefit from the Teleport Homer. All of those things are reasons why I personally would take a Stormraven/Libby/Mystic combo over the Mordrak/Libby/Teleport Homer combo. But I didn't feel that the list of options would be complete without the Mordrak/Libby listed, either ;) Especially with how potent a Warp Rift on turn one threatens to be.

 

Also, when you say TL-psycannons on SRs do you actually mean TL-assault cannons with psybolt ammo?

Absolutely :D Statistically identical.

 

A Librarian will also add some ranged fire potential to Mordrak squad. Warp rift can be the source of nasty events for your opponente and I'm not just mentioning the chance to remove infantry models but even the possibility to put an exepnsive vehicle out of order.

I do think I covered that, but yes, it is a decent idea. Just expensive :lol:

 

Conversion Beamer can offer I first turn attack at S10 AP1, except in Dawn of War deployment. Personally I tried conversion beamer only once and it was responsible for the death of 3 models, even though the were Obliterators. Several players use at least 2 conversion beamer as long range fire support, offering the enemy this alternative: "Suffer the S10 AP1 blast or move closer to my 24" death range".

 

Psy-rifle Dreads, with their 48" can potentially kill enemy models from the first turn.

 

Even though those units are not highly mobile they can still damage enemy army starting from turn 1.

Great ideas, along with the OSR. They won't find themselves in my personal "Zero Day" army lists, but I will update the original post to include them, since they can fit the criteria for turn 1 damage.

 

Since you mentioned the Stormraven/Mystic option I can quote the use of Teleport Homer on Stormravens. It will have a more limited use, namely less units will benefit from it, though.

This is something I considered, but I generally dislike Deep Strike for its unreliability. I'll include it in the Stormraven entry for the sake of completeness.

 

 

I will add that it makes some sense not to include DS units in these theories as - in the GK army - nothing DSs until at least Turn 2...and the foundation here is a Turn 1 assault. However, I do recommend expanding the foundation to include DSs as an effective Turn 1 engagement (in the way you're suggesting here) could be strengthened significantly by a Communion-guided second turn DS. That gives you some interesting options with Paladins, Strike Squads, the Callidus, PTDKs that you didn't scout, etc.

Absolutely. I think I'll have to make a "turn two +" section to add on to my "Zero Day" idea, just for the sake of a complete article.

 

Teleport homers are a bit hard to get (they come on Librarians and Storm Ravens) but you can cheaply spam Servo-skulls to mitigate this significantly; might be worth trying.

Interestingly, Purgation Justicars can also take Teleport Homers. That doesn't really fit into this list, except perhaps as possible cargo for a Stormraven- though that would be wasting the Assault Vehicle rule, to just transport a shooting unit of Purgators.

 

Servo Skulls are terribly handy- especially for this style of list, by controlling where your opponent can deploy his Infiltrators and move his Scouts, you can herd him in a direction of your choice or keep him pinned to his deployment area.

[DarkGuard]

Very pricy; easily 1/3 of your army in a 1500 point game, and they're only 7 models!

 

In considering the Teleport Homer, it is a sub-par piece of wargear for the Librarian unless you will be counting on at least a few units to arrive in close proximity via Deep Strike. The issue with this method is that the Grey Knights are a very small army; if you have two or three units waiting to Deep Strike, then Mordrak, his Ghost Knights, and the Libby are nearly the only thing on the table, and the opponent can easily focus everything on them. In addition to that, The Summoning does not reap any benefit from the Teleport Homer. All of those things are reasons why I personally would take a Stormraven/Libby/Mystic combo over the Mordrak/Libby/Teleport Homer combo. But I didn't feel that the list of options would be complete without the Mordrak/Libby listed, either :P Especially with how potent a Warp Rift on turn one threatens to be.

 

Please don't crush my enthusiasm, I really like the idea of that. True it's a large slice of points, but the main reason why I like it is the ability to drop other Terminator squads, Strike squads, Interceptor squads etc around Mordrak and the Libby. As long as those two models are alive next turn (highly likely with proper placement and wound allocation), you're Reserves are coming in on a 3+ and won't scatter as long as they are 6" away from the Libby, and now you have an army in your opponent's deployment zone which would be hard to budge.

 

Also, the way the Summoning is written I'd contest that teleport homers work, provided the target unit is in Terminator armour. Just like how GoI can use teleport homers on Terminator units, the wording is deploying the unit 6" away using the Deep Strike rules. Teleport homers stop the scattering of Deep Striking Terminators. I'd say that's fair game IMO.

 

Absolutely ;) Statistically identical.

 

True, only one time in which I wouldn't take them, and that's if I took hurricane bolters, as it makes them S5 and no longer defensive. But then again I wouldn't take hurricane bolters because of the cost, but I suppose some people might... :cuss

[Something Wycked]

Please don't crush my enthusiasm, I really like the idea of that.

That's me, the dream crusher :cuss

 

Seriously though, I'm all about efficiency. Perhaps not to the extent of a hardcore tourney player, but I abhor waste.

 

Don't let my opinion stop you from playing the way you want to play though ;)

 

Also, the way the Summoning is written I'd contest that teleport homers work, provided the target unit is in Terminator armour. Just like how GoI can use teleport homers on Terminator units, the wording is deploying the unit 6" away using the Deep Strike rules. Teleport homers stop the scattering of Deep Striking Terminators. I'd say that's fair game IMO.

Unfortunately I have to disagree; nowhere in the wording of The Summoning does it say that the units are Teleporting, only that they are arriving via Deep Strike. There are many ways to Deep Strike, and Teleporting is only one of them. Also, simply because the unit is equipped with Terminator armor does not automatically dictate that their means of Deep Striking is Teleporting, simply that they are capable of it. In this case, their means of Deep Strike is The Summoning, which does not say that it is Teleportation. Teleport Homers do not stop the scatter of Deep Striking Terminators; it prevents scatter when the Terminators arrive via Teleportation only.

 

Sadly. I'd love for the Homer to work for the Summoning. :P It would make things so much easier- not needing to buy skulls or Inquisitors and Mystics.

[thade]

Honestly, I would be shocked if the intention of the teleport homer on the Librarian was not for the Summoning.

 

Summoning lets you place a model within 6" of the Librarian. Average scatter is 7"...that is a pretty tremendous risk. One that a trio of servo skulls will not mitigate.

 

The writing of the teleport homer rule says "models that arrive via teleport"; when models vanish from the table and reappear there, what would you say they are doing? They are teleporting. <3 It's a term that's used all throughout the stories and the games; they teleport. Teleporter packs. Teleporter homers. Teleport. It's okay. Let it happen.

[Something Wycked]

Honestly, I would be shocked if the intention of the teleport homer on the Librarian was not for the Summoning.

Intention leaves much to be desired with GW, much like the Digital Weapons option on the Brotherhood Champion when he already rerolls all wounds with the Anointed Blade.

 

We had a discussion about this in the OI here, not long afte the codex came out and we hammered it pretty good, in just a page.

 

I'd love to let it happen, but I'd hate to be wrong when a FAQ comes out contradicting me ^_^ Granted the INAT FAQ is on your side for both The Summoning and GoI, but even then I don't want to take the risk :D

[DarkGuard]

Well the thing is people expect teleport homers to work for teleporting. There is no such thing, that's a fluff thing. There's only deep strike, and teleport homers prevent scatter from deep striking Terminators. Seems pretty clear and cut to me, you Summon a Terminator squad, they don't scatter. You summon a Strike squad, they do scatter.

[thade]

It's really funny that you are saying that with a straight face: "teleporting doesn't exist in this game." You are far better than that. :D

 

When models vanish from the strike cruiser or from somewhere on the table and then reappear on the table...we have a name for this magic: teleporting.

 

It's so stupid obvious they didn't make a point of it. Whereas GoI takes a leap of faith due to a gross oversight with vanilla dex's homer entry (which specifies only terminator armor) the GK dex is much clearer, saying "teleporting". Why do people seem to require exhaustive lists in this game? There are some ambiguous rules, but this is definitely not one of them.

 

Also, this may be the first time I agree with INAT. Weird.

[Cmdr Shepard]

It's really funny that you are saying that with a straight face: "teleporting doesn't exist in this game." You are far better than that. :tu:

 

When models vanish from the strike cruiser or from somewhere on the table and then reappear on the table...we have a name for this magic: teleporting.

 

It's so stupid obvious they didn't make a point of it. Whereas GoI takes a leap of faith due to a gross oversight with vanilla dex's homer entry (which specifies only terminator armor) the GK dex is much clearer, saying "teleporting". Why do people seem to require exhaustive lists in this game? There are some ambiguous rules, but this is definitely not one of them.

 

Also, this may be the first time I agree with INAT. Weird.

 

Technically even Dreadknights "teleport" but the teleport homer rule does not mention them. Personally I'd give DK the "benefit of the doubt" but several players don't.

 

you Summon a Terminator squad, they don't scatter. You summon a Strike squad, they do scatter.

But Strike Squads can be indeed teleported.

In game's terms I'm inclined to agree Teleporting unit can benefit from the homer during "summoning", at least the ones mentioned in teleporting homer rule's text.

[thade]

It doesn't mention them because they don't scatter...so it doesn't come up. It's a non-issue. I can't fathom why they'd choose the Librarian as one of the very few places to get a teleport homer in the army, given how powerful the model is. A Brother-Captain or Grand-Master, THAT makes sense to me...yet they don't have them. Storm Ravens and Purgation squads...okay. Why the Librarian? Maybe because if he didn't have it then the Summoning would be incredibly, incredibly risky.

 

It is possible that they wanted the power to be incredibly risky...but then, considering how good the GK are reputed to be at teleporting (and how so little in their list scatters when doing so) I have sincere doubts.

 

I'm also carrying on this bout in two threads now. :tu: It's been called teleporting since the 80s; why do they have to point out that it's still teleporting? Every edition, they'd be like "Yep, still teleporting. Hasn't changed." If this were MTG, they would do precisely that. I am thankful this is not MTG.

[Cmdr Shepard]

It doesn't mention them because they don't scatter...so it doesn't come up. It's a non-issue. I can't fathom why they'd choose the Librarian as one of the very few places to get a teleport homer in the army, given how powerful the model is. A Brother-Captain or Grand-Master, THAT makes sense to me...yet they don't have them. Storm Ravens and Purgation squads...okay. Why the Librarian? Maybe because if he didn't have it then the Summoning would be incredibly, incredibly risky.

 

It is possible that they wanted the power to be incredibly risky...but then, considering how good the GK are reputed to be at teleporting (and how so little in their list scatters when doing so) I have sincere doubts.

 

I'm also carrying on this bout in two threads now. :( It's been called teleporting since the 80s; why do they have to point out that it's still teleporting? Every edition, they'd be like "Yep, still teleporting. Hasn't changed." If this were MTG, they would do precisely that. I am thankful this is not MTG.

I see the point but I suppose many players will argue with such interpretation; an event that can ruin the game's fun.

When GK were released many Chaos SM players said Draigo didn't hit Defiler at S10 because it was not explicitly defined a "daemon". At my local store we discussed about the matter and they said I wanted to give GK an advantage because I play them. Then the FAQ was released and I was right.

GW should make rule's text the most clear possible so we don't have to allocate precious time to this kind of "interepretation activities".

[thade]

GW should make rule's text the most clear possible so we don't have to allocate precious time to this kind of "interepretation activities".

It's funny, because a friendly demeanor is both easier to come by and at least as effective.

 

Displacing the blame to GW for their rule set not being bulletproof doesn't change the fact that, to quote the vernacular, "haters gonna hate". I detest rules disputes; they almost immediately despoil a game for me. It's the whole reason I spend so much time on the OR board here, so that I have some chance to stop them in their tracks.

 

Do you know what works better than clear explanations, long expositions, or even a bulletproof rule set? A fun-loving group of players who aren't out to win at all costs.

[DarkGuard]

It's really funny that you are saying that with a straight face: "teleporting doesn't exist in this game." You are far better than that. :blink:

 

When models vanish from the strike cruiser or from somewhere on the table and then reappear on the table...we have a name for this magic: teleporting.

 

It's so stupid obvious they didn't make a point of it. Whereas GoI takes a leap of faith due to a gross oversight with vanilla dex's homer entry (which specifies only terminator armor) the GK dex is much clearer, saying "teleporting". Why do people seem to require exhaustive lists in this game? There are some ambiguous rules, but this is definitely not one of them.

 

Also, this may be the first time I agree with INAT. Weird.

 

I was simply referring to the fact that there is no teleport rule. Teleporting is a fluff tool used to explain how some units and armies get onto the battlefield and around it, but there is not rule called teleport or teleporting, it is deep strike, or shunt or whatever.

[thade]

I was simply referring to the fact that there is no teleport rule.

See the nighthawks quote in my sig.

 

It's been called "teleport" since the 80s. It's only frustrating if you require a bullet proof rule set...which this has never been.

[Cmdr Shepard]

I detest rules disputes; they almost immediately despoil a game for me. It's the whole reason I spend so much time on the OR board here, so that I have some chance to stop them in their tracks.

 

Do you know what works better than clear explanations, long expositions, or even a bulletproof rule set? A fun-loving group of players who aren't out to win at all costs.

I strongly agree. I must say I was not very lucky with my local gaming community, since there are many players who try to "bend" the rules to their advantage.

Rules disputes ruin a game, especially when they last for many minutes.

 

Just to give you an idea of what I heard, consider several players claim you have to use units from a single codex in Apoc games.

Recently I was at the store when 4 players were playing an apoc game. One of them introduced a custom made rule for the scenario: Dark Eldar raiders are Flyers. The most common comment was: "What?!!"

If you want to make such rule at least do it in a fair way: Increase the raider's cost and most importatly follow the real rules of flayers (starting the game in reserve, unableness to disembark troops unless it uses hoover mode etc.)

That guy used only a single flyers' trait: you need to roll a 6 to hit and enemy's weapon's range is reduced by 12" (plus he added 6" granted by nightshields).

 

The raiders moved like a skimmer, disembarking troops with total impunity. Needless to say other players didn't like that and the dispute begun.

 

Back on topic:

It's true there is not a "teleporting rule" but several rule mention "teleport" as a relevant element of the rules themselves.

Teleport homer is an example. Teleporting follows the rule of deep strike but for the purpose of some rules it is different from other means of deep strike (jump pack, drop pods, etc).

[thade]

You know, it's gotten to this point, where I don't think they feel they possibly could produce a set of rules that would satisfy people in this venue. Can you imagine the size of the glossary it would require?

[Something Wycked]

I think it really wouldn't require a huge glossary, just clear, unambiguous statements.

 

Which, by the way, the GK Teleport Homer states very clearly that it works for three units- Strikes, models wearing Terminator armor, and some other unit that I can't remember off the top of my head (though I think its Interceptors.) If I remember correctly, it also says something about those units arriving from Reserves via Teleportation, but I could really be wrong about that part.

 

So even though the Dreadknight can teleport onto the battlefield, with the "Dreadknight Armor" rules effectively quoting the Terminator Armor entry with a different name plastered on it, it cannot use the GK Teleport Homer due to not being listed as one of the affected units in the homer's entry.

 

What really seals the deal for me is that The Summoning, as a psychic power, is a very different travel mechanic than using a Battle Barge's teleportation machinery. When you get deeper into the fluff of it, its not as though the unit that is moving has anything to do with the movement; the Librarian is pulling them through the warp, they're not using their own power to move to him. The homer can't do anything directly for them- it would have to assist the Librarian. But then how does the Teleport Homer carried by the Librarian do anything for him? Does the homer give the Librarian any clearer of a reference point than his own body does? I don't see that it would.

 

In any case, I'm adding this to the first post:

 

What inspired me about this army style is I'm a shooting and mobility oriented player. When you look at the Jump Infantry of any other Astartes codex, invariably they are assault-oriented troops. They aren't even terribly effective against my primary opponents (MEQ) in most instances- Skyclaws have WS3, Codex Marines have only one potential power weapon in the squad and the same issue for Blood Angels. Vanguard can be effective since they can all have power weapons and special gear, but they get expensive quickly and need just the right loadout and to be guided by a skilled hand.

 

For me, Interceptors solve all of these issues. They're Jump Infantry and have the mobility I need, but their primary focus (in my eyes) is shooting. They come standard with Stormbolters, can be upgraded with Psybolts and a full squad can also carry a pair of Psycannons. I've seen no other Astartes army that has mobile firepower like Interceptors. On top of that, they get the same (unimpressive) amount of attacks as Tactical Marines so I'm not tempted to use them as assault troops, but if I'm forced to use them as such they all have force weapons and can defend themselves decently well.

[Something Wycked]

Title post updated with Deep Strike/Summoning and Servo Skulls, and editing and formatting begun for the article.

 

I'm still looking for ideas. I'm fairly certain the turn one options have been exhausted, but the article will expand to the action on subsequent turns.