Captian Xavier Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 This question has been digging at me for a while now. Why are the Ultramarines so damned high and bloody mighty and why does Guilliman get to boss the other Primarchs around after the Siege of Terra? If you look at the way I am, Guilliman wasnt on the Vengful Spirit with the Emperor and Sanginius but Dorn was, he wasnt on Terra defending the Emperor but Dorn was and he didnt beat the crap out of loads of xenos who invaded human space like Dorn did. So given all of that why does he get the force his codex, which lets face it is crap (and marines are actually better when they dont stick to the codex, even the Ultramarines) on all the other loyal legions when the Ultramarines have done the bare minimum, infact all they did was get attacked and defend themselves and their home world... I understand the fact that they were on their way back to Terra and they couldnt help what happened to them at Calth, but still, why shouldnt Dorn and Khan get most of the credit here? I do apologise for the rant by the way, and the shocking spelling ;) Any response would ease my obvious anger :lol: Captain Xavier Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234694-ultramarines-and-imperial-fists/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
calgar101 Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 Sigh and shakes head, another one of these eh? Which legion held the Imperium together in the aftermath? The Ultramarines could not get to Terra in time but there were instrumental in the Scouring, if it wasn't for them then the Imperium would have likely crumbled. Before you make a thread like this how about reading the background properly? They do not act high and mighty as you put it, I loath some of Wards phrases he uses to describe their glorious and proud history; they like any other legion/chapter have an extensive history. Actually the codex is quite an effective thing both in tactical and organisational terms. Ultramarines doing the bare minimum? Yeah right, as I say please read the background. They didn't just defend their homeworld they defended Ultramar and on their way back to Terra destroyed traitor reinforcements as they went. Sigh. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234694-ultramarines-and-imperial-fists/#findComment-2825580 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Race Bannon Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 Opinions are opinions and freedom of speech is a powerful tool of expression. Having said that, I recommend checking emotion at the power button. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234694-ultramarines-and-imperial-fists/#findComment-2825584 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captian Xavier Posted July 21, 2011 Author Share Posted July 21, 2011 Fair enough, thanks very much because now i know, it was only a question, however angrily it was phrased. I still dont think that Dorn should have been as digraced as he was though after the Siege was done... In 'Visons of Treachery' Dorn is described as beeing ashamed with himself because he didnt get to Emperor in time. He should not have been disgraced as he was. The Imperial Fists still did a cracking job. Also the Ultramaries bombarded the Fists because they refused to accept the Codex... tad extreme i think. I understand in times like that you have to be unified but killing your own forces isnt exactly clever, yeah it makes for a good story but still.... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234694-ultramarines-and-imperial-fists/#findComment-2825586 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Styphus Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 You're supposed to keep those comments to yourself Xavier. There are too many fans of the UM's to make these kinds of statements. We (as in son's of Dorn) all know this, but bringing it up sets people off. When the codex was drafted, Dorn backed down to prevent another Civil War. Perhaps we should all take a lesson from this and let them have their redrafted history. ---edit--- They didn't bombard the Fists. They simply powered up their weapons (this was a space confrontation). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234694-ultramarines-and-imperial-fists/#findComment-2825589 Share on other sites More sharing options...
calgar101 Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 Dorn viewed himself as a disgrace others didn't view him so(well not in any background I've read), slight difference there. Well Dorn and Guilliman did differ on opinions regarding the breaking of the legions but it was the Imperial Navy (not the Ultramarines) who nearly fired or fired on the Imperial Fists fleet. If Guilliman really wanted Dorn dead then A) his legion was larger and was in a much better shape to take on another legion or three and :lol: would let Dorn and his legion die at the Iron Cage incident. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234694-ultramarines-and-imperial-fists/#findComment-2825591 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elric the Silvercoat Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 Fair enough, thanks very much because now i know, it was only a question, however angrily it was phrased. I still dont think that Dorn should have been as digraced as he was though after the Siege was done... In 'Visons of Treachery' Dorn is described as beeing ashamed with himself because he didnt get to Emperor in time. He should not have been disgraced as he was. The Imperial Fists still did a cracking job. Also the Ultramaries bombarded the Fists because they refused to accept the Codex... tad extreme i think. I understand in times like that you have to be unified but killing your own forces isnt exactly clever, yeah it makes for a good story but still.... when did the Ultramarines attack the Imperial Fists? if that happened it would have started another Heresy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234694-ultramarines-and-imperial-fists/#findComment-2825595 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captian Xavier Posted July 21, 2011 Author Share Posted July 21, 2011 You're supposed to keep those comments to yourself Xavier. There are too many fans of the UM's to make these kinds of statements. We (as in son's of Dorn) all know this, but bringing it up sets people off. When the codex was drafted, Dorn backed down to prevent another Civil War. Perhaps we should all take a lesson from this and let them have their redrafted history. Thats a very good point, I wasnt trying to anger the UM fans, i mearly believe that the Imperial Fists did more than the Ultremarines and so should be more important in the 40K universe. But if people wish to get angry at me because I am niave to this (hence the fact i was asking) then I agree with you, I should just let them be and not set them off. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234694-ultramarines-and-imperial-fists/#findComment-2825602 Share on other sites More sharing options...
calgar101 Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 Ever since 2nd Ed the Ultramarines have been the poster boys for GW, we don't really know why as it could have been any Legion/Chapter, perhaps ask GW themselves? You've not really angered UM fans, just shown yourself to be some one who doesn't really read the background and assumes opinions for facts... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234694-ultramarines-and-imperial-fists/#findComment-2825607 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Race Bannon Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 Yeah, no. Heading them off at the pass. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234694-ultramarines-and-imperial-fists/#findComment-2825612 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gree Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 This question has been digging at me for a while now. Why are the Ultramarines so damned high and bloody mighty They are? How are they so ''high and mighty'' as you put it. and why does Guilliman get to boss the other Primarchs around after the Siege of Terra? Boss around? That's not really accurate as we know a signifcant amount of discussion and compromise took place after the Scouring and Seige. but Dorn was and he didnt beat the crap out of loads of xenos who invaded human space like Dorn did. Guilliman did actually. The Ultramarines formed half the Astartes in the field during the Scouring and were a crucial element to ensuring the Imperium's survivial. So given all of that why does he get the force his codex, which lets face it is crap (and marines are actually better when they dont stick to the codex, even the Ultramarines) How is it crap? The Ultramarines have been one of the most sucessful chapters for ten millenia because of the Codex. A reasonable man would conclude Codex=good. You do realize that Vulkan and Corax were strong supporters of the Codex right? on all the other loyal legions when the Ultramarines have done the bare minimum, infact all they did was get attacked and defend themselves and their home world... I understand the fact that they were on their way back to Terra and they couldnt help what happened to them at Calth, but still, why shouldnt Dorn and Khan get most of the credit here? Somebody's missing the Scouring. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234694-ultramarines-and-imperial-fists/#findComment-2825615 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captian Xavier Posted July 21, 2011 Author Share Posted July 21, 2011 Well its more the fact that i dont read deep enough into these kind of things and only know the surface facts. But that was the point in asking, so i can widen my knowledge base. Obviously I have some way to go before I know most of the facts, but then if i knew most of the facts there would be no point in asking questions on here in the first place. But thankyou for the info, however much i may sound a bit sarcastic it is appreciated :lol: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234694-ultramarines-and-imperial-fists/#findComment-2825616 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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