The Legions After

[Captain Idaho]

Astartes Council is a really neat idea.

 

However, I think it's worth pointing out that among the many problems such an institution would face, cooperation from Astartes would be chief among them. The problem is that to be of any significant use, the Council would have to have formal authority, which would require Chapters to willingly cede portions of their sovereignty. Chapters, of course, would be loathe to do this.

 

This problem is an analog to that faced in international politics on the question of global government or international law: the international system, just like the "inter-astartes system", is entirely anarchic, i.e. each unit is sovereign and there is no over-arching institution that has authority over each unit, and the establishment of any such over-arching institution or legal regime requires each sovereign unit to cede portions of it sovereignty to higher body in recognizing that bodies authority over it in certain matters.

 

A definite problem. I can solve it I reckon!

 

There is a mandate of the juristiction the Council has, included a clause the Chapters cannot apply punitive action against those who might vote against a specific action etc, and each Chapter is free to leave the Council etc.

 

Hell there could even be a clause that the Chapters cannot make laws or rules for Astartes Chapters that affect certain aspects of the ir autonomy and that includes those outside the Council.

 

I don't know about the Custodes being representative of Space Marines. Their perspective is entirely different, regardless of any bonds of brotherhood they might have. Fighting on the frontier of the Ghoul Stars gives an entirely different view on what's needed than living in a Palace on Terra!

[Lord_Caerolion]

Marshall, Astartes councils have been formed before, as your Deathwatch example proves, but they're always ad hoc affairs temporarily created to deal with a specific event or problem, for example the judgement of the Secessionists in the Badab War. There is currently no permanent council of Astartes, at least none that the wider Imperium recognises.

[The Emperor's Champion]

Astartes Council is a really neat idea.

 

However, I think it's worth pointing out that among the many problems such an institution would face, cooperation from Astartes would be chief among them. The problem is that to be of any significant use, the Council would have to have formal authority, which would require Chapters to willingly cede portions of their sovereignty. Chapters, of course, would be loathe to do this.

 

This problem is an analog to that faced in international politics on the question of global government or international law: the international system, just like the "inter-astartes system", is entirely anarchic, i.e. each unit is sovereign and there is no over-arching institution that has authority over each unit, and the establishment of any such over-arching institution or legal regime requires each sovereign unit to cede portions of it sovereignty to higher body in recognizing that bodies authority over it in certain matters.

Actually, many (maybe even most) Space Marine Chapters seem to get along pretty well (I'd venture to guess it has to do with common ancestries, ancient histories of fighting together, mutual respect, and the fact that the Codex Astartes provides common understanding, standard operating procedures, and general compatibility between 99% of Chapters).

 

As was covered several times earlier in this thread, Space Marines frequently join together to wage wars together. It's not at all unusual for numerous Chapters to submit to the command of whoever they elect as supreme commander of the crusade/campaign they're fighting in.

For example:

Cato Sicarius being elected supreme commander of all Astartes forces during the Medusa V Campaign

Calgar being elected to lead his and 7 other Chapters in the Corinthian Crusade.

Dante being elected supreme commander during the Second War For Armageddon.

Logan Grimnar being elected supreme commander of at least as huge portion of the Marine forces fighting against the 13th Black Crusade.

etc...

[Marshal Rohr]

The council would definitely have no power to come together to force a chapter to do something, though. That would be a big deal breaker in my eyes. The issues addressed to me would be 'acceptable' over-strength levels. The jurisdiction of Crusading Chapters. Addressing territory disputes and conflicting goals of chapters operating close to one another.

 

Lets say the High Lords decree a new founding, as they control the new foundings to separate powers. The Senatorum Astartes picks the geneseed, training cadres, and homeworlds or crusading mandates. This would make sense as the High Lords will have no understanding of how a Space Marine chapter is run, since they arnt Space Marines.

 

Or as another example, a Chapter wishes to become a Crusading Chapter after they are founded. They would appeal to the Senatorum to appropriate more ships, crews, and navigators to do so.

 

Maybe two chapters have been having border disputes, as they were formed to strategically guard a region of space. The Senatorum would allow the two chapters to meet and come to a mutual understanding, away from the battlefront so they could continue to focus on their duties.

 

For precedence and real world examples (fictional too), you have the Roman Senate, where famous commanders would later become Legislators as they grow older. You have the Federation from Starship Troopers, you must serve before you can be a citizen and legislator. You have a number of modern western countries where legislators have been soldiers of great experience.

 

Using older marines would be beneficial because they would have experience and age to temper their zeal and would have literally 'been there' and 'done that' for all possible variables.

 

 

I have this vision in my head of Marneus Calgar addressing the Senatorum about the Tyranids. Or the fates of the Executioners, Mantis Warriors, and Lamenters after Badab. Oh yes. So much potential.

[Legatus]

I have the suspicion that most of the prominent Chapters (SW, BT, DA, perhaps BA) would simply not send representatives to this council. So that council would likely end up being Ultramarines and Imperial Fists successors agreeing with each other that the Codex is the best thing evar. I am not sure that is necessary, though it would of course be nice to have an "official" statement on that. B)

[augustmanifesto]

Just to clarify -- I'm not bashing or attacking the notion of an Astartes Council, I just thinking flushing out some of these realistic considerations is an interesting venture B)

 

I think the council would be entirely democratic with no ceding of sovereignty at all. Majority rules.

 

That's a way of ceding sovereignty because an individual Chapter recognizes an external process, e.g. the voting process on whatever issue in the Astartes Council, as having authority of its own wishes on whatever matters in question. Some sort of democratic mechanism like you mention may make the process of exercising authority in the Council fair, say, but the issue is the Council as a thing which establishes a formal institutional hierarchy of government -- not whether that hierarchy is fair, though that is an important consideration, of course.

 

Actually, many (maybe even most) Space Marine Chapters seem to get along pretty well (I'd venture to guess it has to do with common ancestries, ancient histories of fighting together, mutual respect, and the fact that the Codex Astartes provides common understanding, standard operating procedures, and general compatibility between 99% of Chapters).

 

As was covered several times earlier in this thread, Space Marines frequently join together to wage wars together. It's not at all unusual for numerous Chapters to submit to the command of whoever they elect as supreme commander of the crusade/campaign they're fighting in.

 

Yeah, totally. But when space marines cooperate, they do so still according to their own sovereign will and with no higher authority, generally. In the case of campaigns in which one Captain or Master is placed in command of the rest, this is a good point -- but those instances of a very real formal hierarchy of government are temporary, extremely limited in scope (therefore Chapters enter into such arrangements only when it is under their interests to do so and with a high degree of assurance that the situation will not change in such a way that the arrangement is counter to there interests). A standing governmental body is all together different -- it would be much broader in scope than concerning a single campaign and as such deal with a whole set of matters which would likely be settled contrary to the interests of at least some of the participating Chapters some of the time.

 

Thus, to take a real world example, in the 1996 NATO Campaign in Kosovo, France, the United States and other participating states were willing to put military assets under the formal control of a third party, General Wesley Clark the Supreme Allied Commander of NATO, but, obviously, were not will to cede sovereignty on whatever other governmental matters to any permanent council or organization.

 

It strikes me that the EU would be a interesting counter example to this.

 

A definite problem. I can solve it I reckon!

 

There is a mandate of the juristiction the Council has, included a clause the Chapters cannot apply punitive action against those who might vote against a specific action etc, and each Chapter is free to leave the Council etc.

 

Hell there could even be a clause that the Chapters cannot make laws or rules for Astartes Chapters that affect certain aspects of the ir autonomy and that includes those outside the Council.

 

Yeah those are good thoughts and I don't disagree that with provisions such as that, any such Council would be more politically realistic. However, I just want to point out that you've just limited the power of the council severely: without the ability to apply punitive actions, i.e. enforce its rulings or what have you against those who do not wish to obey, the council has in effect no real power whatsoever, much like a State without the power to enforce its own laws.

 

In such a case, the Council would be highly informal, have no real authority and be essentially a cultural artifact to facilitate networking and communication between the Astartes, other Astartes, and Imperial Institutions. While that is of course a good thing, without any formal power, it would be absolutely unable to address the tough sets of problems that really make the Council an appealing idea to begin with, e.g. issues such as those you (I think) raised with conflict resolution with borderline renegade Chapters such as the Astral Claws pre-badab war.

 

However, the Council could concievably have significant informal power. For instance, if it were somehow the case that membership in the Council awarded substantial material benefit in some way, member chapters would have a strong positive inducement to maintain membership, even if it meant complying in matters against their short-term interest up to a point in order to maintain access to those benefits of membership. This would still be weaker than having the formal authority to take disciplinary, negative or punitive enforcing actions, but could still lend results, I imagine.

[Marshal Rohr]

Legatus, dont forget that some of the Ultramarines and Imperial Fists successors are NOTHING like the Imperial Fists OR Ultramarines. The Executioners, Fire Angels, Motifactors, Silver Skull, Black Templars, ad infinitatum.

 

Just to clarify -- I'm not bashing or attacking the notion of an Astartes Council, I just thinking flushing out some of these realistic considerations is an interesting venture B)

 

I think the council would be entirely democratic with no ceding of sovereignty at all. Majority rules.

 

That's a way of ceding sovereignty because an individual Chapter recognizes an external process, e.g. the voting process on whatever issue in the Astartes Council, as having authority of its own wishes on whatever matters in question. Some sort of democratic mechanism like you mention may make the process of exercising authority in the Council fair, say, but the issue is the Council as a thing which establishes a formal institutional hierarchy of government -- not whether that hierarchy is fair, though that is an important consideration, of course.

 

Actually, many (maybe even most) Space Marine Chapters seem to get along pretty well (I'd venture to guess it has to do with common ancestries, ancient histories of fighting together, mutual respect, and the fact that the Codex Astartes provides common understanding, standard operating procedures, and general compatibility between 99% of Chapters).

 

As was covered several times earlier in this thread, Space Marines frequently join together to wage wars together. It's not at all unusual for numerous Chapters to submit to the command of whoever they elect as supreme commander of the crusade/campaign they're fighting in.

 

Yeah, totally. But when space marines cooperate, they do so still according to their own sovereign will and with no higher authority, generally. In the case of campaigns in which one Captain or Master is placed in command of the rest, this is a good point -- but those instances of a very real formal hierarchy of government are temporary, extremely limited in scope (therefore Chapters enter into such arrangements only when it is under their interests to do so and with a high degree of assurance that the situation will not change in such a way that the arrangement is counter to there interests). A standing governmental body is all together different -- it would be much broader in scope than concerning a single campaign and as such deal with a whole set of matters which would likely be settled contrary to the interests of at least some of the participating Chapters some of the time.

 

Thus, to take a real world example, in the 1996 NATO Campaign in Kosovo, France, the United States and other participating states were willing to put military assets under the formal control of a third party, General Wesley Clark the Supreme Allied Commander of NATO, but, obviously, were not will to cede sovereignty on whatever other governmental matters to any permanent council or organization.

 

It strikes me that the EU would be a interesting counter example to this.

 

A definite problem. I can solve it I reckon!

 

There is a mandate of the juristiction the Council has, included a clause the Chapters cannot apply punitive action against those who might vote against a specific action etc, and each Chapter is free to leave the Council etc.

 

Hell there could even be a clause that the Chapters cannot make laws or rules for Astartes Chapters that affect certain aspects of the ir autonomy and that includes those outside the Council.

 

Yeah those are good thoughts and I don't disagree that with provisions such as that, any such Council would be more politically realistic. However, I just want to point out that you've just limited the power of the council severely: without the ability to apply punitive actions, i.e. enforce its rulings or what have you against those who do not wish to obey, the council has in effect no real power whatsoever, much like a State without the power to enforce its own laws.

 

In such a case, the Council would be highly informal, have no real authority and be essentially a cultural artifact to facilitate networking and communication between the Astartes, other Astartes, and Imperial Institutions. While that is of course a good thing, without any formal power, it would be absolutely unable to address the tough sets of problems that really make the Council an appealing idea to begin with, e.g. issues such as those you (I think) raised with conflict resolution with borderline renegade Chapters such as the Astral Claws pre-badab war.

 

However, the Council could concievably have significant informal power. For instance, if it were somehow the case that membership in the Council awarded substantial material benefit in some way, member chapters would have a strong positive inducement to maintain membership, even if it meant complying in matters against their short-term interest up to a point in order to maintain access to those benefits of membership. This would still be weaker than having the formal authority to take disciplinary, negative or punitive enforcing actions, but could still lend results, I imagine.

 

I never paid attention in civics :P

[Captain Idaho]

I'll admit my ideas do severely limit the power of the Space Marines, limiting them in part to informal agreements, I would like to point out the Chapters Astartes are almost without exception honour bound. An oath for Space Marines isn't like the word of our society (filled as it is by two-faced, self serving individuals), spat upon at the mildest inconvenience. Marines die to prove a point, to up hold their word.

 

So an agreement in the Senatorum Astartes would be more binding than arbitory rules. This is because imposing rules on Marines is contentious, especially without their consensus. Space Marines often break rules imposed upon them, even Ultramarines as can be seen by their adoption of the Landraider Crusader before it was agreed, or the Predator Anhilator being almost universally utilised some centuries before it was approved...

 

An oath from a Space Marine will always be there in their view. Something they won't break easily.

 

As for the make up of the council, I think the SW will be present as they are quite a social bunch who aren't stupid. There are also precedents of successors of the DA and BA working along side those of other Chapters, including 3rd edition Codex Space Marines which had mention of a crusade force lead by Calgar which included a DA successor.

[Legatus]

Space Marines often break rules imposed upon them, even Ultramarines as can be seen by their adoption of the Landraider Crusader before it was agreed, or the Predator Anhilator being almost universally utilised some centuries before it was approved...

Well, the Codex Astartes contains actual laws and legislation, and it contains the established doctrines for Space Marines. Those are two very distinct parts, and diverging from the doctrines is not considered an offense (other than against the legacy of Guilliman). But even then, adding new tactics or gear that has not been known 10,000 years ago is not an issue.

[The Emperor's Champion]

They exist solely to protect the Emperor. If they truly cared they would send out strike forces to aid space marines. But they don't.

It isn't about what they truly care about, its the fact they are the Emperors bodyguard, they go where he goes it is just unfortunate that the Emperor is jammed in the Golden Throne but their duty is to him alone - unless stated otherwise by the Emperor himself.

Exactly. The Custodes may not now be especially in tune with exactly what the Astartes face, but they've still got a history of fighting alongside them and no doubt they've got access to any and all data available on Terra about what's going on in the Imperium as a whole. If nothing else, I fully expect the Custode Captain-General to prevent unnecessary interference with the Adeptus Astartes's independent operation by the other High Lords, and I expect him to put an end to any notions that might abuse the High Lords' sway over the Adeptus Astartes.

So, while the High Lords might be petty and power hungry (and that would likely conflict with the purpose of the Space Marines as servants of mankind), the Captain-General would be the one keeping their demands on the Astartes in check unless it's something actually meant to help mankind. Otherwise the Astartes would be generally expected to know what needs done and be allowed to act independently to do those things. Obviously, I'd expect him to support notions that are good for mankind when another High Lord tries to dismiss it.

 

That The Emperor's supreme agent is one of the High Lords, and that he's a being utterly dedicated to The Emperor alone and has no reason to seek personal gain, and that he has The Emperor's full authority to do anything he deems necessary, is a great check and balance.

 

For that reason, there's no need for a more permanent Astartes council. The Marines operate best when left to independently pursue their objectives or team up as needed, and if the Marines are genuinely required for a specific task they can be summoned by the High Lords.

It works.

 

Hell, the whole thing works for "simpler" reasons than that even. The Adeptus Astartes ISN'T actually a part of the Imperium. Each Chapter is an independent entity allied with the Imperium (so is the Adeptus Mechanicus, incidentally).

Technically, no Chapter is legally bound to the Imperium. The Space Marines serve mankind and The Emperor, not their Imperium. The relationship between the Astartes and the Imperium is one of mutual need. Space Marines need the Imperium's wargear and support in battle to continue to successfully fulfill their duty(protecting and fighting for mankind as best they can), and the Imperium needs the Space Marines to protect them and crush their foes.

If "commanded" to do something it doesn't agree with, a Chapter can simply deny the command. Any consequences the Imperium tries to inflict on a non-compliant Chapter would basically be black mailing them with the supplies they need or a declaration of war. Since the Imperium has no actual authority to do so, this is at the risk of pissing off other Chapters and,obviously, the Chapter itself. A Chapter has to be careful what they choose to ignore, lest they lose support of their fellow Chapters and find themselves unable to stalemate the Imperium.

Usually tho, the Imperium's "commands" are accepted or rejected without confrontation. Everyone pretty much assumes each other to be handling what they can and properly prioritizing things that need to be done, and everyone generally gets along.

 

The Captain-General of the Custodes would serve to cut off stupid requests so the Astartes never even have to refuse them in the first place, cut off any attempts by the High Lords to impose frivolous "regulations" on the Adeptus Astartes as a whole, negate anything done to other organizations that might impact the operation of the Astartes (like tasking a Forge World to stop making Astartes wargear and build Titans instead), etc etc

 

If it were anyone else I'd not assume him to be the solution to tempering the interaction between the Marines and the Imperial government, but, unless what we know of the Adeptus Custodes is wrong, he is exactly the necessary combo of more capable, trustworthy, and supremely powerful needed to keep the plates spinning.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

For the record, I don't think the Codex Astartes is actually considered law as a whole. Individual Chapters will follow the Codex as law, and it would be my guess that the Codex Astartes is basically the "User Terms Of Agreement" under which the majority of Chapters interact with and get support from the Imperium.

Basically, the Codex Astartes guidelines would dictate in what quantities the Adeptus Mechanicus and Munitorium can be expected to grant the Astartes equipment. What methods a Chapter can employ to be looked upon more favourably by the Imperium, etc. What things Chapters shouldn't do unless they want to arouse suspicion or provoke the Imperium's ire (e.g. having huge Legion sized forces), etc, etc.

Obviously, some Chapters are created with entirely unorthodox formats and therefore probably have other standing arrangements with the Imperium (the Exorcists, being an obvious example), while other Chapters will have proven themselves reliable and highly effective without the Codex and have thereby earned basically the same support (e.g. Space Wolves).

[Legatus]

Technically, no Chapter is legally bound to the Imperium.

Technically, they very much are. They are a recognised branch of the Adpetus Terra, new Chapters are founded by the High Lords, and non compliant Chapters are punished or dissolved by them. Chapters simply do not have to pay tithes or are under the command of another Imperial institution, so they are a great deal more independent than other Imperial worlds or other institutions within the Imperium are. But they are decidedly not an entirely distinct faction that is merely "allied" with the Imperium.

[Captain Idaho]

I would say the Imperium can black mail most Chapters with regards to their Geneseed tithes, since sooner or later a big loss will occur and require the Chapter to send for more geneseed. Also, due to the disparate nature of individual Chapters, the Imperium can oppose single Chapters if need be, therefore the upper hand is on the side of the Imperium.

 

Of course, short term a Chapter can do a lot of damage to the Imperium without geneseed replacement, and even have the capacity to replace their losses themselves to an extent. Having multiple Chapters getting mad squares the problem rather than simple increasing it by one each time.

 

I don't believe the Imperium would want to interfere with the autonomy of Space Marines, especially the more established ones who can call more of their brothers to their aid (like the mistake with the Astral Claws).

[The Emperor's Champion]

Technically, no Chapter is legally bound to the Imperium.

Technically, they very much are. They are a recognised branch of the Adpetus Terra, new Chapters are founded by the High Lords, and non compliant Chapters are punished or dissolved by them. Chapters simply do not have to pay tithes or are under the command of another Imperial institution, so they are a great deal more independent than other Imperial worlds or other institutions within the Imperium are. But they are decidedly not an entirely distinct faction that is merely "allied" with the Imperium.

That is actually directly contradicted in the fluff.

Chapters, Rogue Traders, the Adeptus Mechanicus, and Inquisitors are "peers of the Imperium" (in fact I think "Peer Of The Imperium" is the actual name of the title/authority that they hold). All of them are technically independent entities allied with the Imperium, tho obviously also dependent on the Imperium for supplies and/or protection.

[Legatus]

I am not sure in how many sources the exact relation between the Imperium and the Space Marine Chapters is described, but this is how they were described in the Codex Imperialis:

 

"They are far too few to form the sole fighting force of the Imperium. The Space Marines are the Imperium's elite fighting troops, a core of highly mobile shock troops trained to fight on land and in space." (p. 16)

 

"Chapter Planets are part of the Imperium, but they are ruled by the Space Marine Chapter that has its base there." (p. 16)

 

"As some Chapters rule entire planets, a Space Marine Master may act as the head of government as well - effectively as the Imperial Commander of a whole planet." (p. 17)

 

"The organisation of the fighting units of Space Marines was laid down by the High Lords of Terra following the reformation of the Space Marine Chapters after the Horus Heresy. The rules governing Space Marine organisation and numbers are called the Codex Astartes. " (p. 17)

 

And of course they were occasionally refered to as Imperial Space Marines back then.

 

 

The 5th Edition rulebook simply mentions them as being part of the Imperial military forces:

 

"An Imperial commander can call on many diverse organisations in his pursuance of the Emperor's Will, and each of the Imperium's military forces brings its own tactical specialisation to the ever-lasting war effort. Some organisations, such as the mighty Space Marines, the stallwart Imperial Guard or the pious battle-sisters of the Adepta Sororitas are paraded as heroic saviours, their efforts lauded and praised by the common man." (5th BRB, p. 120)

 

The Adeptus Astartes is also generally listed in the charts explaining the hierarchy of the Imperium, next to the other military institutions. But these charts are not generally well described, so one cannot really get any information on the relations of the different institutions from them.

[augustmanifesto]

While I'm not certain of the precise legal status of Space Marine Chapters, they are no doubt part of the Imperial Power structure -- unified in ideology, religion, culture, broad strategic objectives, etc. The debate seems a bit moot if its goal is anything other than to define lines of technicality, which ultimately amounts to the ways in which Chapters are part of the Imperium, in spite of whatever special statuses they enjoy.

[Legatus]

Well, they are part of the Imperium, but they are not actively governed like other Institutions are. All the legistlation regarding Space Marines had been "set in stone" at the time of the Second Founding, in the form of the Codex Astartes. So it is extremely rare that the High Lords have to make any decision regarding Space Marines. Most will deal with how to proceed with an individual Chapter that has been noncompliant. Since the Space Marines are not actively governed, they don't really need a representative among the High Lords to influence their decisions according to their own interests. They may form a council for Space Marine matters only, but then how many issues regarding Space Marines as a whole would there be to discuss?

[The Emperor's Champion]

I seems it's one of those situations where the status they technically hold doesn't really make itself evident due to the way they functionally operate.

For example, when they say an Inquisitor bears the full authority of The Emperor, this is why. They are "Peers Of The Imperium". But then an Inquisitor still answers to the Inquisition itself, and the Inquisition itself is lead by one of the High Lords.

Rogue Traders are Peers Of The Imperium(for now I'm going to assume this is the actual name of the title) who are basically free to do whatever they want....but they're still just rich ship captains in the end. Not playing nice with Imperial laws will still cause problems for them, even though they're technically immune to them.

Chapters are technically separate entities, but the way they get their gear and respond to other agencies, and the fact that they follow Imperial systems (like going by "Adeptus Astartes") makes them seem like just another part of the Imperium, and there's probably not a whole lot of people who'd be able to tell the difference, and probably some people who just wouldn't recognize the difference even if they knew about it,

[Marshal Rohr]

Dude, you realize all we do everyday is discuss Space Marines right?

 

Could you imagine if we were ACTUALLY Space Marines?

[augustmanifesto]

Dude, you realize all we do everyday is discuss Space Marines right?

 

Could you imagine if we were ACTUALLY Space Marines?

 

i love you, bro. so, so sigged

[Legatus]

That's why I generally avoid all of those "which Space Marine/Primarch would you be" questions, because there is just no way I would be a Space Marine in the 41st millennium. I would be some kind of administratum bureaucrat. :)

 

 

Btw. since the Codex Astartes was penned 10,000 years ago, by a Primarch no less, and includes all the relevant legistlation regarding Space Marines, that in a way protects Space Marines from a possibly corrupt government. The Adeptus Terra or the High Lords could not simply introduce amendments to the Codex Astartes (the law part), so a Space Marine Chapter can allways point to his Primarch given privileges and jurisdictions. (Some sources even mention that the Codex Astartes is widely seen as the word of the Emperor.)

[augustmanifesto]

That's why I generally avoid all of those "which Space Marine/Primarch would you be" questions, because there is just no way I would be a Space Marine in the 41st millennium. I would be some kind of administratum bureaucrat

 

I would be a homeless vagabond, one amongst the trillions of malcontents, masturbating chronically as my only source of dopamine and getting abused by the man/xenos.

[The Emperor's Champion]

Dude, you realize all we do everyday is discuss Space Marines right?

 

Could you imagine if we were ACTUALLY Space Marines?

:)

I like to think we'd be way more preoccupied with training and fighting. :)

But yea, I do assume Marines would among the few people who actually understood their place alongside the Imperium.

[Marshal Rohr]

Dude, I'd be a space marine. Bump that normal person noise.

 

Legatus it isnt amendments like Tactical Squads are now authorized to wear rainbows instead of arrows, its more like Chapters are now authorized to have two scout companies if they are separated by so many light years or extended campaing.

 

Or two chapters may only recruit from the same world during alternating generations.

 

Or you can have so many exterminatus class weapons for each chapter.

 

Stuff like that. Honestly though, its a plot device, its supposed to create drama. :( I want to hear about debates between the Space Wolves and Dark Angels, or like someone else said the Dark Angels and a chapter they abandoned. Someone asking the Flesh Tearers what the :) after Gaius point after that.

 

Why is :) censored now? That seems a little... extreme...

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

i really like the idea of it.

 

i see it as chapters cab advise each other upcoming campaigns, pledge aid to one another, collectively tell a Imperial faction to straighten their act or face the wrath of the Space Marines.

by better coordinating among themselves that can better spread their forces out.

 

WLK

[Arkangilos]

I have the suspicion that most of the prominent Chapters (SW, BT, DA, perhaps BA) would simply not send representatives to this council. So that council would likely end up being Ultramarines and Imperial Fists successors agreeing with each other that the Codex is the best thing evar. I am not sure that is necessary, though it would of course be nice to have an "official" statement on that. :D

 

Why not? I can understand SW, DA, and BT wouldn't, but why wouldn't the BA? they aren't paranoid, and follow the codex to the best of their ability ;)