Gentlemanloser Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 One thing that is forgotten by your RAI analysis Thade. Even if The Summoning is actually 'Teleportation', the TH still *won't* work with it. As the TH is designed to work in concert with the Teleport Array of a strike cruiser. Which is something the Libby doesn't have. It makes sense, from RAW and RAI and Fluff, that the TH doesn't work with the summoning. Consider it a second half to the invisible, off table technology contained in the Strike Cruiser. It doesn't really make sense for the Libby to have a TH and not a Locator Beacon, but that's Ward for you. What I am stating is that it does not matter what specific means are use to Deep Strike units of Strikers, Interceptors, or models wearing TDA, if those units are using the Deep Strike rule with in 6" of a Teleport Homer, then those units will benefit from the Teleport Homer because they have used the Deep Strike rule to arrive, they are units that are listed as being able to benefit from a Teleport Homer, and the Teleport Homer only requires them to meet those two specific criteria. The Summoning might not specifically state that it is teleporting the units, but it does state that those unit must Deep Strike. Incorrect unfortunately. The TH rules *state* users must be teleporting. IF Grey Knight Strike Squads, Interceptor Squads or models in Terminator Armour wish to Teleport onto the Battlefiled If The Summoning isn't defined as Teleporting, it won't work with the TH, as the TH requires you to be Teleporting. Again this also ignores the first section of the TH rules which state; Teleoprt Homers emit a powerful signal enabling Grey Knight Strike Cruisers to lock on to them with thier teleportation equipment. Fluff or rule? If the TH only works with similar Technology, then it *can't* work for a Libby... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234741-tele-homer-librarian-the-summoning-and-warp-stabilization/page/5/#findComment-2830697 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 One thing that is forgotten by your RAI analysis Thade. Even if The Summoning is actually 'Teleportation', the TH still *won't* work with it. As the TH is designed to work in concert with the Teleport Array of a strike cruiser. Did you ever consider what the "array of a strike cruiser" actually is? It's Astropaths and Librarians. :( I stand by my RAI synopsis. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234741-tele-homer-librarian-the-summoning-and-warp-stabilization/page/5/#findComment-2830969 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 Thade you have presented a very strong case for the RAI. Well done sir. G :( Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234741-tele-homer-librarian-the-summoning-and-warp-stabilization/page/5/#findComment-2830989 Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 It's Astropaths and Librarians. or on ship sensors . Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234741-tele-homer-librarian-the-summoning-and-warp-stabilization/page/5/#findComment-2831006 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 Did you ever consider what the "array of a strike cruiser" actually is? It's Astropaths and Librarians. I stand by my RAI synopsis. The exact quote is "Teleportation Equipment". Now if a single GK Libby counts as the entirety of a Strike Cruisers 'Teleport Equment', then sure. :lol: Edit: Still we're back to the point of origin (Libby) and the location of the Homer (libby) being the same place, which really negates any fluff/RAI benefit a Homer could have. Unlike the point of origin being the Cruiser and the location of the Homer being in vastly different places. ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234741-tele-homer-librarian-the-summoning-and-warp-stabilization/page/5/#findComment-2831008 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 Thank you. I do my best, man. As people have already said, I think it's clear there's little more to say here. I know I'm probably out of contributions, short of clarifications on the summary. I did my best to support both sides of it. Seems like a candidate for Grey Area to me. Now...if only'd have posted that in the OR. :lol: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234741-tele-homer-librarian-the-summoning-and-warp-stabilization/page/5/#findComment-2831009 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 It would have been shut in the OR forum quite quickly. There's no grey area here nor wiggle room. By the Rules, units summoned scatter, and the TH doesn't work. That's all there is to say officially. The rest of the discussion is really semantics about what if's or wish-listing, unfortunately. :lol: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234741-tele-homer-librarian-the-summoning-and-warp-stabilization/page/5/#findComment-2831011 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 It would have been shut in the OR forum quite quickly. There's no grey area here nor wiggle room. I respectfully disagree. But then, I have from the beginning. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234741-tele-homer-librarian-the-summoning-and-warp-stabilization/page/5/#findComment-2831017 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 Post it up then! :lol: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234741-tele-homer-librarian-the-summoning-and-warp-stabilization/page/5/#findComment-2831019 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 Post it up then! ;) I will, but give me a few days. Seriously. Believe it or not, I'm pretty tired of this particular discussion. :lol: I'll post my summary (above) with the addendums of "what the heck a strike cruiser array is and whether that affects things" from both sides. But let my brainz rest for now. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234741-tele-homer-librarian-the-summoning-and-warp-stabilization/page/5/#findComment-2831022 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 I'm going to post it this evening. :D G :mellow: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234741-tele-homer-librarian-the-summoning-and-warp-stabilization/page/5/#findComment-2831081 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMouth Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 I had this occur in a game recently, and I tried to explain to my friend why I believed his terminators could not use the homer. 1. The psychic power did not say teleporting, only being summoned and using deep strike rules. Not actually deep striking, similiar to the "ravens" skies-o-something, they bail out using deep strike rules. By his logic I could unload my terminators anywhere near by a homing beacon and safe and sound. He then insisted that the terminators could simply because they where terminators, and the armour gave them the teleport ability. 2. I tried to further explain that the ability was to allow them to DS in scenarios that didnt allow it, similar to drop pod assault. It just allowed them to always be able to be in reserve. Thats it, nothing more. It did not mean that if they deep strike for any reason that they are considered always "teleporting". Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234741-tele-homer-librarian-the-summoning-and-warp-stabilization/page/5/#findComment-2831086 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 What other means might they deep strike by besides teleporting ? G :mellow: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234741-tele-homer-librarian-the-summoning-and-warp-stabilization/page/5/#findComment-2831088 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 I'm going to post it this evening. :D G :mellow: What of "let my brainz rest" wasn't clear? :( Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234741-tele-homer-librarian-the-summoning-and-warp-stabilization/page/5/#findComment-2831095 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMouth Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 What other means might they deep strike by besides teleporting ? G The summoning power its self is what is allowing them to use deep strike rules. No where does it say they are deep striking, simply that they use deep strike rules. Similar to my comparison of the storm raven bail out ability. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234741-tele-homer-librarian-the-summoning-and-warp-stabilization/page/5/#findComment-2831096 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 What other means might they deep strike by besides teleporting ? G The summoning power its self is what is allowing them to use deep strike rules. No where does it say they are deep striking, simply that they use deep strike rules. Similar to my comparison of the storm raven bail out ability. You should read my summary; you both are rehashing arguments which have been well-analyzed throughout this thread. EDIT: Link. Also, the subsequent post by gentlmenloser addressing the summary and my response should be considered part of it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234741-tele-homer-librarian-the-summoning-and-warp-stabilization/page/5/#findComment-2831101 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMouth Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 ^^^ Well written post, I read it already, I was simply stating what happened in a game recently and the argument I used. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234741-tele-homer-librarian-the-summoning-and-warp-stabilization/page/5/#findComment-2831105 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 Well at least it looks like we have made a little forward progress. G ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234741-tele-homer-librarian-the-summoning-and-warp-stabilization/page/5/#findComment-2831163 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMouth Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 Called GW on this, and literally was laughed at for asking, and was told no, the termies are not teleporting. I also asked if it will FAQed...more laughter, and a response of " why would that be faqed? Its common sense that they arent teleporting." I know they dont really have much weight, but nice to know that they are not "teleporting", as some want them to be. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234741-tele-homer-librarian-the-summoning-and-warp-stabilization/page/5/#findComment-2853158 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffersonian000 Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 Called GW on this, and literally was laughed at for asking, and was told no, the termies are not teleporting. I also asked if it will FAQed...more laughter, and a response of " why would that be faqed? Its common sense that they arent teleporting." I know they dont really have much weight, but nice to know that they are not "teleporting", as some want them to be. So, deep striking Terminators that arrive via teleportion (per their rules) are not actually teleporting? Or is it that deep striking Terminators that arrive via Summoning (per that rule) are not actually teleporting? Your post did not covering anything, sorry to say. SJ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234741-tele-homer-librarian-the-summoning-and-warp-stabilization/page/5/#findComment-2853532 Share on other sites More sharing options...
number6 Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 Called GW on this, and literally was laughed at for asking, and was told no, the termies are not teleporting. I also asked if it will FAQed...more laughter, and a response of " why would that be faqed? Its common sense that they arent teleporting." I know they dont really have much weight, but nice to know that they are not "teleporting", as some want them to be. Nice. ;) Firstly, employees at a GW store -- or the employees you can actually reach by phone at GW -- don't make the rules OR the FAQs. They're just as liable to be right as they are wrong. Just like the rest of us when confronted with problems that don't have obvious answers. Secondly, I would like to know to what "common sense" they are referring when talking about 40K, which is a game designed upon an entirely fictionalized setting containing magic mental powers and superhuman dudes in power armour riding around in massive space ships that travel through an alternate dimension populated with daemons and god-like beings. Oh, and there's aliens from other galaxies and alien technology and and and.... Yeah, everying is soooo obvious with GW's rules because the setting is so very clear cut. ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234741-tele-homer-librarian-the-summoning-and-warp-stabilization/page/5/#findComment-2854060 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 Firstly, employees at a GW store -- or the employees you can actually reach by phone at GW -- don't make the rules OR the FAQs. They're just as liable to right as they are wrong. Just like the rest of us when confronted with problems that don't have obvious answers. First, let me admit I'm impressed you reached anybody at GW by phone at all for a rules query; I hear that's nigh impossible these days. I've given up both for its impossibility and the number of times I've seen people get contradictory answers from that phone line. Sad but true: the phone guys don't actually know the rules any better than we do. Actually, I'd assert that a few of us know the rules better than they do. ;) Terminators that arrive via Teleportation are in fact teleporting. Eventually someone will FAQ it and I'm willing to be it won't be that phone operator. <3 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234741-tele-homer-librarian-the-summoning-and-warp-stabilization/page/5/#findComment-2854061 Share on other sites More sharing options...
yperihitikos Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 I hope/wish they will include the interceptors, too. They deep strike teleporting themselves, they don't jump on the field. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234741-tele-homer-librarian-the-summoning-and-warp-stabilization/page/5/#findComment-2854195 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 Still needs FAQ. *waits* Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234741-tele-homer-librarian-the-summoning-and-warp-stabilization/page/5/#findComment-2854206 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Captain Kezef Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 I don't see the confusion. Teleporting is a variant of deep strike but deep strike is NOT teleporting. Teleporting is a unique special rule available ONLY to Terminators and models with a personal teleporter. The summoning is very clear in the wording, it used DEEP STRIKE rules. The same rules every army in 40k use be they Sanguinary guard or swooping hawks (and the same rules that terminators use incidently). A teleport homer allows Terminators deploying from reserves to land with pin-point accuracy while a locator beacon applies to all deep strikers. The most probably reason the Libby has a TH and not a beacon is so that he can be used asa focus for reserve deep strikers. He doesn't have a beacon because that would remove any and all risk associated with the summoning,one of the prices you pay for that power is the risk the unit you are yanking will scatter. It'd be a bit broken if everything from terminators to land raiders could be summoned with pin-point, risk free accuracy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234741-tele-homer-librarian-the-summoning-and-warp-stabilization/page/5/#findComment-2854230 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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