Re-reading Descent of angels

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DoA was one of my least favourite books the first time around. Re-reading it I realise it´s actually a pretty good story. The problem, I think, is of expectation. When getting a HH-novel you want to read about primarchs kicking ass, not some fantasy knight story. The story should have focused more on the time after the orders inclusion into the first legion and the growing schism between the Lion an Luther. Allthought it´s nice with mysteries and secrecy goes very well with DA, the drama between The Lion and Luther is still not very elaborated.

 

 

The book also states that the Lion was a little under 3 meters tall which is nice to know in the ever on-going debate about how tall the primarchs are. There is also a very small hint at the missing legions. Midris says to Zahariel at one point that there are 19 other primarchs, insinutaing that at the time the missing legions had not yet been expunged.

 

 

Edit: Spelling

[Pavement Artist]

DoA was one of my least favourite books the first time around. Re-reading it I realise it´s actually a pretty good story. The problem, I think, is of expectation. When getting a HH-novel you want to read about primarchs kicking ass, not some fantasy knight story. The story should have focused more on the time after the orders inclusion into the first legion and the growing schism between the Lion an Luther. Allthought it´s nice with mysteries and secrecy goes very well with DA, the drama between The Lion and Luther is still not very elaborated.

 

 

The book also states that the Lion was a little under 3 meters tall which is nice to know in the ever on-going debate about how tall the primarchs are. There is also a very small hint at the missing legions. Midris says to Zahariel at one point that there are 19 other primarchs, insinutaing that at the time the missing legions had not yet been expunged.

 

 

Edit: Spelling

 

Not being much of a Dark Angels fan, i read DOA fairly late on in the series and i must say, i enjoyed it a lot more than i was expecting. It isn't the best in the series, but the negative comments i'd heard surrounding the novel led me to believe it was just a bad piece. It was quite well written and i enjoyed the exploration of Caliban as a society and also just the environment of the planet itself.

 

You have hit the nail on the head i think. The book was published early on in the Heresy at a time when we weren't aware quite how long the series would stretch on for. Perhaps the DA community expected the entirety of the fall of Caliban to be contained in the one novel? If so, i understand the sense of disappointment. I just feel that when viewed as a whole, the DA storyline will hold up better.

[Brother Nihm]

The problem, I think, is of expectation. When getting a HH-novel you want to read about primarchs kicking ass, not some fantasy knight story.

I actually expected to read about the Horus Heresy, given that it is labeled as being in the series. Very few pages in the book were actually devoted to that. :mellow:

 

As a stand-alone novel I feel that it would have fared a lot better.

 

PS. Fallen Angels did make up for a lot of the errors that was made in & with DoA.

[Pavement Artist]

The problem, I think, is of expectation. When getting a HH-novel you want to read about primarchs kicking ass, not some fantasy knight story.

I actually expected to read about the Horus Heresy, given that it is labeled as being in the series. Very few pages in the book were actually devoted to that. :mellow:

 

As a stand-alone novel I feel that it would have fared a lot better.

 

PS. Fallen Angels did make up for a lot of the errors that was made in & with DoA.

 

I don't feel the story of the fallen would've been done justice without a proper exploration of Caliban itself. It did a good job in laying the groundwork.

[Capt. Taurus]

DoA was one of my least favourite books the first time around. Re-reading it I realise it´s actually a pretty good story. The problem, I think, is of expectation. When getting a HH-novel you want to read about primarchs kicking ass, not some fantasy knight story. The story should have focused more on the time after the orders inclusion into the first legion and the growing schism between the Lion an Luther. Allthought it´s nice with mysteries and secrecy goes very well with DA, the drama between The Lion and Luther is still not very elaborated.

 

 

The book also states that the Lion was a little under 3 meters tall which is nice to know in the ever on-going debate about how tall the primarchs are. There is also a very small hint at the missing legions. Midris says to Zahariel at one point that there are 19 other primarchs, insinutaing that at the time the missing legions had not yet been expunged.

 

 

Edit: Spelling

 

I actually felt the same way after I re-read DoA. It was as if I had gotten a much better grasp of the story and especially of the atmosphere of Caliban and its social and martial structure. Things that were only hinted to in Codex Angels of Death (2nd Ed.) really came to life in DoA.

 

Concerning the matter of 'how tall is a primarch', you should keep in mind that Jonson and Russ belonged to the "little guys" within the Primarch brotherhood. For instance Magnus and Mortarion were much taller than most other Primarchs.

 

Cheers

[Sgt. Tiberus Satio]

I actually expected to read about the Horus Heresy, given that it is labeled as being in the series. Very few pages in the book were actually devoted to that.

 

The HH series is a timeline between the time leading up to the actual events unfolding. There is so much of un-tapped knowledge to be weaved because everyone knows the SUMMARY of what happend and what the Heresy is. The book series including the two of the Angels portrays the events per their views and findings. Example being "Galaxy in Flames" and "The Flight of the Eisenstien" are back to back events, but of different views.

 

I have the Dark Angel novels waiting to be read again, but there is to much my mind can take in such an awesome series without breaks.

 

Edit** I thoroughly enjoyed the "Angels of Darkness" book to give even a greating insight to how the Angels are.

[Lord Ragnarok]

I was only slightly put off with the ending of the first book. I still enjoyed it when I thought it was the only one. With the second book I liked it even more and the head scratching of the ending of the first went away. I look at the HH to explain some of the mysteries of the HH and in many cases it is done best showing what lead up to the Heresy and not just the Heresy itself.

 

If you have time I do think it is good to re-read some of the books you though weren't so good. I probably need to do that with Fulgrim as I really didn't like it, but many seem to have enjoyed it.

[Liliedhe]

I liked the book. But then, I wanted to read about the Lion, and didn't have many expectations.

 

The first twothirds that happen on Caliban actually almost dislodged Horus Rising as my favourite book in the series so far - but the last third was a letdown, because it was so rushed. Suddenly, we jump forward for years, and a lot of things that would have been interesting are glossed over. Like, how did the Lion react to finally no longer being alone? A one-of-a-kind being? How do Nemiel and Zahriel change by becoming Astartes? How does Caliban change as a part of the Imperium? It should have been two novels, not one with a tacked on ending.

 

Fallen Angels answered some of those questions, but not all.

[Captain Idaho]

I don't like it. It was supposed to be about the DA just before the Heresy, but it was more about their homeworld before the DA even arrived.

 

It's like reading picking up the Lord of the Rings but instead of the story we get a bunch of rubbish about Bilbo Baggins' grand father at school. Sure it might be written ok and it's interesting for Hobbit fans to read about, but the rest of us were robbed.

[Clewz]

I quite liked the whole background bit. I just didn't like the end of it, just seemed a little rushed

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

I don't like it. It was supposed to be about the DA just before the Heresy, but it was more about their homeworld before the DA even arrived.

 

It's like reading picking up the Lord of the Rings but instead of the story we get a bunch of rubbish about Bilbo Baggins' grand father at school. Sure it might be written ok and it's interesting for Hobbit fans to read about, but the rest of us were robbed.

 

agree.

 

WLK

[Grandmaster Anaziel]

I like DOA! But it could have been more... "awesome" so to speak. XD

[MCCCXXXVII]

I wasn't really a fan of Descent of Angels. However, after reading Fallen Angels, I feel a little more appreciative of the slow build-up. It makes me wonder why there haven't been more "mini-series" within the Heresy series, because I think it really helps with the character development. I'm not even close to a Dark Angels fan, but I found myself wanting more after the ending of Fallen Angels. Does anyone know what they're planning on doing with the Dark Angels in the heresy? Do they need to wait until a certain point in the heresy time-line before we get a 3rd book?

[Pavement Artist]

I don't like it. It was supposed to be about the DA just before the Heresy, but it was more about their homeworld before the DA even arrived.

 

It's like reading picking up the Lord of the Rings but instead of the story we get a bunch of rubbish about Bilbo Baggins' grand father at school. Sure it might be written ok and it's interesting for Hobbit fans to read about, but the rest of us were robbed.

 

The state of Caliban itself and the knightly orders, is something that greatly informed and influenced the Dark Angels legion. The book was supposed to be about the Dark Angels, which it was. There's just no getting away from the fact that the world had a great effect on the legion. If we take Caliban to be a tainted world (which it is generally considered to be), then we have to also acknowledge that in a way, this environment was an influential factor in the fall of half the legion and as such, it deserves to be explored.

 

The sort of book people seem to clamour for, would have been fairly irrelevant in the greater scheme of the heresy series. Yes you were a decorated legion and it would have been nice to see you in action a bit more and so on and so forth. My point is, every man and his dog's legion can have the action packed shooty kill death novel; it's nothing particular to any Astartes legion. The treachery of Luther however, is a wonderfully tragic story that resonates throughout your chapter 10,000 years later. One act of weakness that changes the entire Raison D`etre of the legion? Most people would kill for background with such pathos.

 

Although DOA comes across as more of a fantasy novel at times and i understand how that would have been jarring at the time, it was actually laying some pretty important foundations for the later story. Your tale is far from over yet, don't be too hard on the book just because it had to do a bit of heavylifting to get the players on the board. Things will look much better when viewed as a whole

[Droma]

Without the background events that happen in DoA the reasons why the ones left on Caliban turn don't make any sense. Caliban and the knightly orders needed that fleshing out or things would feel a lot more shallow with the DA imo. The story of their fall isn't as simple as Luther being jealous of the Lion and convincing those on Caliban to turn, there is a lot more too it that has its roots in old traditions and obligations and differing views on the imperium as well as all the betrayal and jealousy.

 

DoA is actually one of my favorite if not my #1 HH book because it really delves that deeply into the background and the subtle reasons for all the things that happen later. Unlike most of the other legion stories the DA isn't anywhere near as simple as them being tricked/succumbing to chaos.

[Commander S. Caesare]

We should kinda remember that this is a 2-volume story. So DoA is covering most of the foundation of Fallen Angels.

[Captain Semper]

Descent of Angels was irrelevant. Irrelevant. No redeeming features whatsoever! It was a wasted opportunity as was it's sequel (for different reasons).

 

Caliban. No one cares outside the context of the Lion! If the Lion was born on another world then Caliban with all it's Orders and beasts and such would NOT have been on the map. So where is the Lion? Ermmmm...

 

Ok some people say that in order to understand the Lion you have to understand Caliban. Well there is a book to be written and you want to say something about Caliban in order to understand the Lion better. What do you do? Describe endlessly the life of two junior knights that no one cares if they live or die? Or you make the same attempt with someone that interacts with the Lion on a daily basis so maybe we get a glimpse of the Primarch too? Say like Loken.

 

The book was a complete waste. The unfolding of the assassination plot in the end was laughable and diminished the value of the book even further. Fallen Angels was somewhat better but it's ending took it all back for me. Both books were wasted opportunities in my view.

[Artein]

The book also states that the Lion was a little under 3 meters tall which is nice to know in the ever on-going debate about how tall the primarchs are. There is also a very small hint at the missing legions. Midris says to Zahariel at one point that there are 19 other primarchs, insinutaing that at the time the missing legions had not yet been expunged.

 

I think that the one missing primarch was Alpharius, he was still not found at this time.

[Codicier Lucion]

I wasn't really a fan of Descent of Angels. However, after reading Fallen Angels, I feel a little more appreciative of the slow build-up. It makes me wonder why there haven't been more "mini-series" within the Heresy series, because I think it really helps with the character development.

 

Well, to be honest there are already quite a few mini series and individual stories being told across multiple media. Here's what we've had so far:

 

- The opening trilogy counts as its own mini-series.

- The Dark Angels have their own.

- A Thousand Sons and Propero Burns were linked and carried over a lot of elements into Battle of the Fang making that a mini series.

- The Ultramarines arguably have their own one as Battle for the Abyss ends just as the Battle for Calth and Know No Fear will begin.

- Flight of the Eisenstein was followed up by the two Garro audios.

- First Heretic is having Aurelian follow it up.

- Raven's Flight is a prequel to Deliverance Lost as far as anyone can tell.

 

That leaves, what, Mechanicum, Fulgrim, Legion an Nemesis as the only ones not part of a mini-series? And even then you have short stories giving more details about the legions.

[Ethrion]

I liked it, it gave really good background into the origins of the Dark Angels and their knightly orders. The only problem I had was it felt rushed towards the end. But then again it was basically Part 1 of 2 so seen in that context it was fine. Certainly not irrelevant or a complete waste.

 

Without the background events that happen in DoA the reasons why the ones left on Caliban turn don't make any sense. Caliban and the knightly orders needed that fleshing out or things would feel a lot more shallow with the DA imo. The story of their fall isn't as simple as Luther being jealous of the Lion and convincing those on Caliban to turn, there is a lot more too it that has its roots in old traditions and obligations and differing views on the imperium as well as all the betrayal and jealousy.

 

DoA is actually one of my favorite if not my #1 HH book because it really delves that deeply into the background and the subtle reasons for all the things that happen later. Unlike most of the other legion stories the DA isn't anywhere near as simple as them being tricked/succumbing to chaos.

 

This.

[Hrolleif]

As to the book itself I enjoyed it, it could've been fleshed out a little more. I thought it was decently written with a fair amount of info setting up for the next book only though. However, pertaining to the series, the one thing that throws it off is that no other Legion perhaps the Luna Wolves get this amount of attention given to their pre-heresy dealings. If some or all of the other Legions got their own pre-heresy books then this one might fall into place, at least I think so. Who knows though, mysteries are still fun if a still a little maddening.

[MCCCXXXVII]

I wasn't really a fan of Descent of Angels. However, after reading Fallen Angels, I feel a little more appreciative of the slow build-up. It makes me wonder why there haven't been more "mini-series" within the Heresy series, because I think it really helps with the character development.

 

Well, to be honest there are already quite a few mini series and individual stories being told across multiple media. Here's what we've had so far:

 

- The opening trilogy counts as its own mini-series.

- The Dark Angels have their own.

- A Thousand Sons and Propero Burns were linked and carried over a lot of elements into Battle of the Fang making that a mini series.

- The Ultramarines arguably have their own one as Battle for the Abyss ends just as the Battle for Calth and Know No Fear will begin.

- Flight of the Eisenstein was followed up by the two Garro audios.

- First Heretic is having Aurelian follow it up.

- Raven's Flight is a prequel to Deliverance Lost as far as anyone can tell.

 

That leaves, what, Mechanicum, Fulgrim, Legion an Nemesis as the only ones not part of a mini-series? And even then you have short stories giving more details about the legions.

 

I'll clarify, I meant stories that follow the same characters through multiple books. So far the only ones that have spanned multiple novels and deal with the same main characters were the opening trilogy and the 2 Dark Angels books. I'm not counting Garro's audio dramas because they were quite short. (I find Garro to be a really flat and boring character, though I think I'm in the minority on that xD)

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

The book also states that the Lion was a little under 3 meters tall which is nice to know in the ever on-going debate about how tall the primarchs are. There is also a very small hint at the missing legions. Midris says to Zahariel at one point that there are 19 other primarchs, insinutaing that at the time the missing legions had not yet been expunged.

 

I think that the one missing primarch was Alpharius, he was still not found at this time.

Which would mean both of the mssing ones are still around.

[tiberium40k]

I didn`t like it. Why? Because it was for the most part unnecessary. All the things we were told about Caliban and its culture could have been easily said in less then a third of the pages dedicated to it. It simply did not have to drag on for so long. One could actually skip half the pages in the book and not miss anything important. Some people will say it was necessary to flesh out Caliban in this way, but for the most part people don`t care about which village one needs to pass in order to reach some forest to kill a Calibanite beast. The assasination attempt in perticular was the low part of the book. To me, DoE was a wasted opportunity for the Heresy series.

 

Fortunately, Fallen Angels is way better.

[Dark Scipio]

I liked it.

 

I liked to read a novel that describes the difficulties of the Imperium on its rise and the incooperation of lost worlds, because they now have a history of their own.