Re-reading Descent of angels

[The emperors chosen]

The problem, I think, is of expectation. When getting a HH-novel you want to read about primarchs kicking ass, not some fantasy knight story.

I actually expected to read about the Horus Heresy, given that it is labeled as being in the series. Very few pages in the book were actually devoted to that. :tu:

 

As a stand-alone novel I feel that it would have fared a lot better.

 

PS. Fallen Angels did make up for a lot of the errors that was made in & with DoA.

 

I don't feel the story of the fallen would've been done justice without a proper exploration of Caliban itself. It did a good job in laying the groundwork.

This, DOA gave explanations, and introduced a lot of things that were dealt with in Fallen Angels. I actually like DOA, as it showed DA background that was never there. I did feel like the last bit was rushed though, that's my only criticism.

[Artein]

The book also states that the Lion was a little under 3 meters tall which is nice to know in the ever on-going debate about how tall the primarchs are. There is also a very small hint at the missing legions. Midris says to Zahariel at one point that there are 19 other primarchs, insinutaing that at the time the missing legions had not yet been expunged.

 

I think that the one missing primarch was Alpharius, he was still not found at this time.

Which would mean both of the mssing ones are still around.

Yup, I think that's the case. Can't be 100% sure but it's most likely.

[sponsra]

The book also states that the Lion was a little under 3 meters tall which is nice to know in the ever on-going debate about how tall the primarchs are. There is also a very small hint at the missing legions. Midris says to Zahariel at one point that there are 19 other primarchs, insinutaing that at the time the missing legions had not yet been expunged.

 

I think that the one missing primarch was Alpharius, he was still not found at this time.

Which would mean both of the mssing ones are still around.

Yup, I think that's the case. Can't be 100% sure but it's most likely.

 

No, no, there is a conversation in DoA between Zahariel and that librarian and Zahariel ask if there is other primarchs out there just like the Lion. The librarian anwers "yes, in fact there is 19 others" (i.e 20 including the Lion). This is very weird if Alpharius wasn´t found at that time -but I guess it´s just a mistake...

[Artein]

Well, Alpharius was found as the last one. In DoA we see pre-Imperial Caliban, its discovery by the Imperium and Dark Angels first mission. There should be no Alpharius at this point yet.

[Ubermensch Commander]

I always enjoyed DOA, since the first reading.

It fleshed out elements found in the old 2nd edition Angels of Death Codex, detailed the shocking and abrupt effects of Imperial culture on a newly compliant world (which helped demonstrate sources of resentment that allowed Horus to rally many worlds to his cause), and traced a Primarch from his homeworld to aforementioned Primarch and his Legion out amongst the stars.

 

Very, very, very far from irrelevant as it sets the stage for how and why the Dark Angels schism occurs. Which is rather the whole point of the HH books, to flesh out the players and settings around the period of the Great Crusade and the Horus Heresy. The minimal screen time for the Lion is of little issue as many other HH books give about as much time to other Primarchs. Mortarion, for example, remained quite absent in Flight of the Eisenstein.

 

Overall, an excellent and well written story, in my book.

[Droma]

As far as the quote about there being 19 others and the discussion about who wasn't found yet, etc. We know Horus was found first, so after finding one of his sons I think it is very likely that the Emperor would tell all the legions hey I've got 19 other missing kids keep an eye out for them. In other words that quote can't be used to try and figure out a time line for order of being found as he's just giving information all the legions already knew. So the legions knew there were a total of 20 primarchs in existence even if all 20 hadn't been found yet.

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

Well, Alpharius was found as the last one. In DoA we see pre-Imperial Caliban, its discovery by the Imperium and Dark Angels first mission. There should be no Alpharius at this point yet.

Actually, wasn't the Lion found second?

[Bigger-than-Jesus]

Well, Alpharius was found as the last one. In DoA we see pre-Imperial Caliban, its discovery by the Imperium and Dark Angels first mission. There should be no Alpharius at this point yet.

Actually, wasn't the Lion found second?

Doubt it, if only for the fact that in every map I've seen, fenris is pretty much in between Terra and Caliban.

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

Well, Alpharius was found as the last one. In DoA we see pre-Imperial Caliban, its discovery by the Imperium and Dark Angels first mission. There should be no Alpharius at this point yet.

Actually, wasn't the Lion found second?

Doubt it, if only for the fact that in every map I've seen, fenris is pretty much in between Terra and Caliban.

... or possibly third :rolleyes: He was found fairly early though, I know that much.

[sponsra]

As far as the quote about there being 19 others and the discussion about who wasn't found yet, etc. We know Horus was found first, so after finding one of his sons I think it is very likely that the Emperor would tell all the legions hey I've got 19 other missing kids keep an eye out for them. In other words that quote can't be used to try and figure out a time line for order of being found as he's just giving information all the legions already knew. So the legions knew there were a total of 20 primarchs in existence even if all 20 hadn't been found yet.

 

That makes sence.

[Watch-commander Albus]

DoA was one of my least favourite books the first time around. Re-reading it I realise it´s actually a pretty good story. The problem, I think, is of expectation. When getting a HH-novel you want to read about primarchs kicking ass, not some fantasy knight story. The story should have focused more on the time after the orders inclusion into the first legion and the growing schism between the Lion an Luther. Allthought it´s nice with mysteries and secrecy goes very well with DA, the drama between The Lion and Luther is still not very elaborated.

 

It was not a bad book at all. I enjoyed the descriptions of pre-imperium Caliban and its society. Perhaps it was a book that did not deliver what was expected from a Horus Heresy book (being that it does not talk about the heresy), but that does not make it a bad book.

 

They should make a 'origins of the space marines/primarchs series' or unification of terra era series. I would certainly buy any book that talks about the very early space marine legions if they are as nice as descent of angels.

[Valkyrion]

DOA sets up the 'why' of the DA split. It's an important book for the bigger picture, irrelevent in isolation.

Without DOA you get 'well, Luther is a bit mard, threw his toys out of the pram and cried like a whiny teenager when he didn't get his own way' by way of explanation.

If you read it whilst thinking about the modern day dark angels then it's quite thought provoking.

It sets up the Lion to be the nastiest Primarch, in a sense, purging his own legion as soon as he could in dishonourable fashion, pretty much outright stating that Jonson cares not a jot for Caliban especially when you consider that Jonson destroyed his homeworld. (even though we haven't got there yet)

It turns Luther into the jilted bride, explains that Caliban wasn't just a death world but practically a daemon world and reinforces the tyrannical nature of the primarchs and the emperor/imperium.

[Morollan]

I quite liked the whole background bit. I just didn't like the end of it, just seemed a little rushed

 

This ^^. It was like the author used up 95% of his allotted words describing Caliban and the Knightly Orders in exhaustive detail and then had to wrap up the story with "and then Jonson sent Luther home without any supper. The End"

 

About 90% of the book had sod all to do with the Horus Heresy and should have been covered in a standalone novel. As background for the following book it was okay but as part of the HH Series? No.

[Brother Nihm]

About 90% of the book had sod all to do with the Horus Heresy and should have been covered in a standalone novel. As background for the following book it was okay but as part of the HH Series? No.

I couldn't agree more, it should never have been a part of the Horus Heresy series, and by that extent, neither should the current incarnation of Fallen Angels because it so heavily relies on the groundwork laid down in DoA.

 

I would have loved to see a real DA HH novel on the same level as the other Legion specific books, like Legion.

[Captain Idaho]

Yeah, if I cared at all about the Dark Angels I'd have felt let down by Descent of Angels. Other Legions got quite a bit of face time during the Heresy, seeing what they were up to and how their Primarch conducted his campaign and interacted with their Legion and the common man, but the Dark Angels seemed to miss all this out in an effort to describe the pre-Dark Angels origins.

 

I know the argument was it set the scene and allowed us to understand how the Lion and his Legion ticked, but why couldn't it have been done in a novel during the Heresy? Fulgrim and the Emperor's Children were coloured by their drab existance toiling unto death on their Homeworld, but there was no tiresome description of it in the novel Fulgrim was there.

 

It should have been done as a stand alone novella, possibly limited edition. It annoys me that BL keep releasing cool stuff as audio books or expensive limited edition prints, so I miss out on some cool stories (don't have the privacy for or like audio books and I'm not being ripped off!) yet despite missing out some cool stories I get Descent of Angels wasting my time and money.

 

In fact, Descent of Angels actually caused me to not buy Prospero Burns, as I didn't want to waste my money again on a novel which would have added little to my experience (not a big enough fan to care what the SW thought of their actions during the sacking of Prospero).

[Dinks]

In fact, Descent of Angels actually caused me to not buy Prospero Burns, as I didn't want to waste my money again on a novel which would have added little to my experience (not a big enough fan to care what the SW thought of their actions during the sacking of Prospero).

Prospero Burns is pretty bad so you made a good choice not buying it. Abnett is trying far to hard to turn the Space Wolves into something that resembles realism but ultimately fails, badly.

[Captain Idaho]

In fact, Descent of Angels actually caused me to not buy Prospero Burns, as I didn't want to waste my money again on a novel which would have added little to my experience (not a big enough fan to care what the SW thought of their actions during the sacking of Prospero).

Prospero Burns is pretty bad so you made a good choice not buying it. Abnett is trying far to hard to turn the Space Wolves into something that resembles realism but ultimately fails, badly.

 

Excellent, as it's nice to feel like you made a good choice for once. :)

[Jim Shady]

I wasn't really a fan of Descent of Angels. However, after reading Fallen Angels, I feel a little more appreciative of the slow build-up. It makes me wonder why there haven't been more "mini-series" within the Heresy series, because I think it really helps with the character development.

 

Well, to be honest there are already quite a few mini series and individual stories being told across multiple media. Here's what we've had so far:

 

- The opening trilogy counts as its own mini-series.

- The Dark Angels have their own.

- A Thousand Sons and Propero Burns were linked and carried over a lot of elements into Battle of the Fang making that a mini series.

- The Ultramarines arguably have their own one as Battle for the Abyss ends just as the Battle for Calth and Know No Fear will begin.

- Flight of the Eisenstein was followed up by the two Garro audios.

- First Heretic is having Aurelian follow it up.

- Raven's Flight is a prequel to Deliverance Lost as far as anyone can tell.

 

That leaves, what, Mechanicum, Fulgrim, Legion an Nemesis as the only ones not part of a mini-series? And even then you have short stories giving more details about the legions.

 

GM is doing a novella on Fulgrim. Sure there was talk about another AL book in the HH series.

[Jim Shady]

And to go with the talk of 'I like this!' or 'This sucks!', I personally liked this. It was a good setup for Fallen Angels as it showed how the knights where incororated into the DA and how some of a population felt when the Big E came and told the Lion he is one of his missing sons and it gives you an insight to how the population (or the minority) are disgruntled which is covered in Fallen Angels abit.

 

I, personally, would like to see Mike Lee do another HH book but word is he's busy on the Malus Darkblade series

[Zincite]

Personally, I really enjoyed the book. The thing that really stood out for me was the last bit. Did Luther...

 

Actually want to leave the bomb, but came back when He saw it was going to be discovered he left it? Or the opposite, and he did really re-think? Did he actually tell the Lion about his doubts (or pretend doubts), or not? Was he sent home because of this, or because of some reason of the Lion's? Why were the other Dark Angels sent back with him? Was it to get rid of those that might support Luther, or for this unseen plot of the Lion's that might not be there? Is the Lion just wanting to be left alone, or is he truly concerned about Luther's loyalty?

 

Those questions just really set it for me. That is exactly what Dark Angels should be. While one path looks to be certain, there's another that... might.... be true.

[Artein]

As far as the quote about there being 19 others and the discussion about who wasn't found yet, etc. We know Horus was found first, so after finding one of his sons I think it is very likely that the Emperor would tell all the legions hey I've got 19 other missing kids keep an eye out for them. In other words that quote can't be used to try and figure out a time line for order of being found as he's just giving information all the legions already knew. So the legions knew there were a total of 20 primarchs in existence even if all 20 hadn't been found yet.

 

That makes sence.

 

IIRC Alpha Legion was created AFTER Alpharius was found.

[sponsra]

Personally, I really enjoyed the book. The thing that really stood out for me was the last bit. Did Luther...

 

Actually want to leave the bomb, but came back when He saw it was going to be discovered he left it? Or the opposite, and he did really re-think? Did he actually tell the Lion about his doubts (or pretend doubts), or not? Was he sent home because of this, or because of some reason of the Lion's? Why were the other Dark Angels sent back with him? Was it to get rid of those that might support Luther, or for this unseen plot of the Lion's that might not be there? Is the Lion just wanting to be left alone, or is he truly concerned about Luther's loyalty?

 

Those questions just really set it for me. That is exactly what Dark Angels should be. While one path looks to be certain, there's another that... might.... be true.

 

Exactly. That´s why it's dissaponting that there is nothing (ok, very little) of that in the book. Just page after page of knights riding around in a forest...

[Captain Idaho]

Personally, I really enjoyed the book. The thing that really stood out for me was the last bit. Did Luther...

 

Actually want to leave the bomb, but came back when He saw it was going to be discovered he left it? Or the opposite, and he did really re-think? Did he actually tell the Lion about his doubts (or pretend doubts), or not? Was he sent home because of this, or because of some reason of the Lion's? Why were the other Dark Angels sent back with him? Was it to get rid of those that might support Luther, or for this unseen plot of the Lion's that might not be there? Is the Lion just wanting to be left alone, or is he truly concerned about Luther's loyalty?

 

Those questions just really set it for me. That is exactly what Dark Angels should be. While one path looks to be certain, there's another that... might.... be true.

 

Exactly. That´s why it's dissaponting that there is nothing (ok, very little) of that in the book. Just page after page of knights riding around in a forest...

 

Yeah, I would have been happy to read the "bomb plot" Chapters at the end of the book as the prologue of Fallen Angels and just not wasted my time with all the Warhammer Fantasy rubbish.

[Brother Galfridus]

Seemed that the clearing of the forests is a mirror to the Great Crusade in a much smaller form. Right down to how the forests are described = space (beautiful from a distance, deadly within).

 

I also really liked the fact that the opposing knights order had a wolf theme.

[Ring-around-the-roses]

I agreee with the whole divided path between the truth and maybe truth, as this perfectly exemplifies the conflict between the dark angels quest for truth and the constant secrecy that haunts them. Then i read Age of Darkness, and learnt it was just paranoia that caused everybody to think that. :lol: Kinda, well really,really belittles the book. Both books, the dark angels themselves in my eyes. Take your pick, i think tat DoA is a GOOD BOOK, but like most HH books, it lacks continuity overall. The authors need more coffe breaks to chat, methinks.