Blood Shadow Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 I'm planning my first Blood Angels list at 1500pts. i really like Terminators but i see in the army lists forum that no one seems to use them at that points limit, though occassionally sanguinary guard. Are they not worth it at less than 2K? or too expensive with land raiders? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billga Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 Three Thunderhammer/two Lightning Claw Terminators in a Land Raider run 465 points, or roughly one third of the points cost of your entire army. That, simply put, is a lot of eggs in one basket. Running Terminators without a transport exposes them to many potential kills before they are able to get into hand-to-hand, which is where they make their bacon so to speak. Finally, Deep Striking a hammer unit (without "Descent of Angles"), means that a vital part of your army is more likely arrive later in the battle, after the the rest of your army is already toast. And with that I'm off to breakfast :tu: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redo Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 Yeah at 1500 point Temies and their transport are just a little too much (Too many eggs in one basket). One can take a Storm Raven but that is also 215 points (with extra armour) and obviously a little more fragile than the LR. I know fpr myself that when I play Termies, I do not pack them out until 1750 points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blood Shadow Posted July 22, 2011 Author Share Posted July 22, 2011 ah i see, i think i'll look for something else and take Terminators when we get to 2k then. thanks :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMac Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 I think they can be worth while. In a 1.5K list I wrote up for a tournament, I took a 5 man Assasult TDA unit. Packed them, Sang Priests, and a Libby in a Raven with EA, and a Furioso with Talons and EA. Comes to 555 only being a third of your army. The rest of the 2/3 considered of 4 assault squads in razorbacks, and a couple attack bikes. Came in 2nd with this list. While they may be expensive, they hit hard. Even in my game against IG with a parking lot and 3 Vendettas, the Raven was popped the turn it arrived, but my TDAs and Dread were half way up the field. They reached the parking lot by the next turn, and cleared the lot by the turn after that. I won that game, barely, but I did. Point being, a TDA squad is cheaper then a tooled up 10 man assault squad. The "problem" every arises is they need a transport. Are you kidding me? They have a 2+/5++ or 3++ save. March them up the damn field if you must, they are pretty resilient. Hide them behind a tank, or better yet use them to screen a tank. In games where you face daemons, or a DoA list, I would even consider DSing them. Now comes the hate mail, telling me I'm wrong. It's your army, if you want TDAs, get them. They are awesome models to paint, and they wreck face on the table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Crimson Cartel Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 Hehe...I just started up in a 1500 campaign at my local, and ran my list with a crusader, x5 claw termies, a tda reclusiarch ,and tda priest packed inside. :tu: The thing is, at 1500, everyone (mostly) tries to write up/bring a balanced list,which can be good and bad. You get jack of all trades, but maaybe not as killy.. (I started a thread about this just recently ) That unit, with Meph walking in tow, completely ran roughshod over an entire nid army almost by themselves... He just didn't have an answer for it. So expensive :Yes VERY. Effective: Can be. It was pretty fun rolling that wrecking ball over everything,grinning the entire time.... :blink: -CC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gumo9 Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 I agree completely with JMac - walk e'm if points are tight. I played a Cities of Death Game a few months ago and my unit of 2TH/SS and 3 LC Termies dominated the game. They just strolled from one side of the board to the other butchering everything as they went. Granted there is a lot of potential cover in Cities of Death but using your environment is just as important as choosing your units. Fortune favours the brave ! G Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redo Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 I agree completely with JMac - walk e'm if points are tight. I played a Cities of Death Game a few months ago and my unit of 2TH/SS and 3 LC Termies dominated the game. They just strolled from one side of the board to the other butchering everything as they went. Granted there is a lot of potential cover in Cities of Death but using your environment is just as important as choosing your units. Fortune favours the brave ! G Fortune does favour the brave but in cities of death a walking Termie squad can be just ignored or bogged down in difficult terrain. I know it has happened to me! Back to topic...You guys certainly have a point yet a 1500 points I think it is better to take a strong Vanguard squad or HG. Sure, in the end they cost more but have no transport need and are super manouverable and still leave more points for the rest of the army than Termies and a Transport. Oh and yes termie models are a joy to paint, look great to field but come on...Honour Guard and Vangaurd also look great and offer some much choice for conversion etc...don't they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMac Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 Fortune does favour the brave but in cities of death a walking Termie squad can be just ignored or bogged down in difficult terrain. I know it has happened to me! Back to topic...You guys certainly have a point yet a 1500 points I think it is better to take a strong Vanguard squad or HG. Sure, in the end they cost more but have no transport need and are super manouverable and still leave more points for the rest of the army than Termies and a Transport. Oh and yes termie models are a joy to paint, look great to field but come on...Honour Guard and Vangaurd also look great and offer some much choice for conversion etc...don't they? Agreed, they do! I own many models of them and love to field them (TDAs are still my favorite to paint though :) ) However, the OP wanted TDAs at a point level where some people would disagree fielding them at. I was simply encouraging him to get what he wants and pointing out that they have their place at such point level. Granted, maybe a VV squad may be more efficient, but this also depends on what type of BA army you are fielding (i.e. DoA vs Mech) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knife&fork Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 At lower points just run tactical tactical dreadnought armor :pinch: 5*termies, cyclone and 2*CF is pretty sweet set up. Huge threat range, no need for a transport. Mobile with more damage output than a tactical squad. Very resilient. Devastating in close combat vs everything except specialized CC units. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AustonT Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 I cant remember the exact list but with CCscouts you can throw down 30 Termies and 2 vindicators. It's not the best list but it is ridiculous Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbusePuppy Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 I have a fairly effective list I've been working on for 1500 that runs a bunch of Termies. 1 Librarian (Terminator, Storm Shield; Unleash, Fear) 2 Sanguinary Priests (1 Terminator, 1 Jump Pack+Power Weapon) 10 Terminators (2 Cyclone Missile Launcher, 3 Chainfists) 5 Terminators (Cyclone Missile Launcher, Chainfist) 10 Assault Marines (2 Meltaguns, Infernus Pistol, Power Weapon) 10 Assault Marines (2 Meltaguns, Infernus Pistol, Power Weapon) You could also swap the special weapons on the ASM around (get some Flamers, probably, since that's the only thing you're particularly lacking in) or run the Librarian as a Jump Pack dude instead (but I like the 2+/3++, so...) Your basic plan is to advance with the Termies, hiding the ASM behind them. If needed, you can drop the ASM in to Melta something away or send them off on their own to charge soft targets like Orks, IG, etc. Cyclone and Storm Bolter shots can put a hurting on most things as you advance and once you're in CC, very few things can stand up to that many Power Fist attacks. Your "soft" units are 3+ armor/4+ cover with FNP, which I'm sure you realize is a pain to remove- and the Termies are 2+/4+/5++/FNP, which is nigh-impossible to shoot down before the game ends. Make sure everyone sticks together and supports each other and very few things will want to take you on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Kovash Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 The terminators can be effective at 1500 points, simply because your opponent might not be expecting to see them at that point level. The last time I played a BA player, he dropped a shooter squad with a priest out of a stormraven in the second turn, and it caught me off guard. However, it is a lot of points to consider, you're probably better off at 2000. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knife&fork Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 I have a fairly effective list I've been working on for 1500 that runs a bunch of Termies. 1 Librarian (Terminator, Storm Shield; Unleash, Fear) 2 Sanguinary Priests (1 Terminator, 1 Jump Pack+Power Weapon) 10 Terminators (2 Cyclone Missile Launcher, 3 Chainfists) 5 Terminators (Cyclone Missile Launcher, Chainfist) 10 Assault Marines (2 Meltaguns, Infernus Pistol, Power Weapon) 10 Assault Marines (2 Meltaguns, Infernus Pistol, Power Weapon) You could also swap the special weapons on the ASM around (get some Flamers, probably, since that's the only thing you're particularly lacking in) or run the Librarian as a Jump Pack dude instead (but I like the 2+/3++, so...) Your basic plan is to advance with the Termies, hiding the ASM behind them. If needed, you can drop the ASM in to Melta something away or send them off on their own to charge soft targets like Orks, IG, etc. Cyclone and Storm Bolter shots can put a hurting on most things as you advance and once you're in CC, very few things can stand up to that many Power Fist attacks. Your "soft" units are 3+ armor/4+ cover with FNP, which I'm sure you realize is a pain to remove- and the Termies are 2+/4+/5++/FNP, which is nigh-impossible to shoot down before the game ends. Make sure everyone sticks together and supports each other and very few things will want to take you on. Awfully similar to a list I was running, just replace 5 termies with VVs. Did fairly well vs Marines & MEQ but didn't stand a chance vs guard. Not enough firepower to deal with high AV spam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nathan Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 im thinking of swapping out my 10 man tactical squad for 5 tactical termys. sure in many ways id probably be better with the tacticals but people overly panik about termys. also my termy models rock the buiscuits so i wants to use dem :devil: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbusePuppy Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 Awfully similar to a list I was running, just replace 5 termies with VVs. Did fairly well vs Marines & MEQ but didn't stand a chance vs guard. Not enough firepower to deal with high AV spam. I definitely wouldn't use VV, they don't really solve most of your problems; HWTs and other shooting units are generally not much of a threat to you because of the combination of 2+, FNP, and cover. Unless your Guard opponent is running a tailored list, they are going to have a pretty limited supply of Lascannons and other AP2 guns to kill you with at 1500; it's basically Vendettas, Demolishers, and Meltaguns. Vendettas are easy to keep perma-shaken until you can get into combat with his stuff, that's what your Cyclones are aimed at. Demolishers should, ideally, be taken out by five dudes dropping in with Melta of your own. His Melta has to roll right up in your face to hurt you, which means it will die immediately after. IG isn't an easy matchup due to them having so many vehicles (which can be annoying to destroy), but most of their firepower just rolls off you like rain. Lasguns? Sure, seventy-two of those will drop one guy. Autocannons? Hey, only twenty-eight shots per. The army's strength lies in its resilience against most kinds of firepower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knife&fork Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 IG isn't an easy matchup due to them having so many vehicles (which can be annoying to destroy), but most of their firepower just rolls off you like rain. Lasguns? Sure, seventy-two of those will drop one guy. Autocannons? Hey, only twenty-eight shots per. The army's strength lies in its resilience against most kinds of firepower. 3 devildogs, 1 demolisher, 1 (or was it 2?, Can't remember), plasma and melta vets in chimeras, AC heavy weapon teams, minimal troops and HQ. Miss a few shots early on and you're toast. :D It did struggle vs my mech list though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bartali Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 I have a fairly effective list I've been working on for 1500 that runs a bunch of Termies. 1 Librarian (Terminator, Storm Shield; Unleash, Fear) 2 Sanguinary Priests (1 Terminator, 1 Jump Pack+Power Weapon) 10 Terminators (2 Cyclone Missile Launcher, 3 Chainfists) 5 Terminators (Cyclone Missile Launcher, Chainfist) 10 Assault Marines (2 Meltaguns, Infernus Pistol, Power Weapon) 10 Assault Marines (2 Meltaguns, Infernus Pistol, Power Weapon) You could also swap the special weapons on the ASM around (get some Flamers, probably, since that's the only thing you're particularly lacking in) or run the Librarian as a Jump Pack dude instead (but I like the 2+/3++, so...) Your basic plan is to advance with the Termies, hiding the ASM behind them. If needed, you can drop the ASM in to Melta something away or send them off on their own to charge soft targets like Orks, IG, etc. Cyclone and Storm Bolter shots can put a hurting on most things as you advance and once you're in CC, very few things can stand up to that many Power Fist attacks. Your "soft" units are 3+ armor/4+ cover with FNP, which I'm sure you realize is a pain to remove- and the Termies are 2+/4+/5++/FNP, which is nigh-impossible to shoot down before the game ends. Make sure everyone sticks together and supports each other and very few things will want to take you on. Looks like quite a fun list, but I'd be a bit worried by S8+ and/or AP2 large blasts. Love to run it out of the DA dex with TH/SS+CML Terminators. If only their Assault Marines weren't so poor... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbusePuppy Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 Looks like quite a fun list, but I'd be a bit worried by S8+ and/or AP2 large blasts. Love to run it out of the DA dex with TH/SS+CML Terminators. If only their Assault Marines weren't so poor... S8, if it isn't AP2, isn't actually very worrying- when you shrug off Missiles on a 2+, Long Fangs actually start looking kinda silly. AP2 large blasts are certainly nasty, but really, how many of those are there? Medusa, Demolisher... that's it? Both guns pretty much confined to a single army, and somewhat niche guns at that. Good use of cover should largely mitigate them, especially combined with Cyclones and Melta- disable/suppress them and you're pretty much golden. 3 devildogs, 1 demolisher, 1 (or was it 2?, Can't remember), plasma and melta vets in chimeras, AC heavy weapon teams, minimal troops and HQ. Miss a few shots early on and you're toast. Ouch, okay, yeah, that list is pretty heavily tailored to beat Marines, so no surprise he's doing a number on you. Watch him play Orks, either brand of Eldar, Tyranids, etc, though, and you'll see a very different story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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