WIP IA -> IT - Nightcrawlers

[Omega Striker]

So I watched X-men 2 last night, and now I want to make a chapter of of Nightcrawlers.

 

So, how would I go about this? I am assuming Cursed or Dark foundings, because I want them to be teleporty warp-jumpy types.

 

They may just be traitors, or start out loyalist, but turn to Tzeentch for the accurate warpy powers. Maybe. Totally in brainstorm mode.

 

Who's geneseed would be most appropriate? Thosand Sons? (I know, traitor geneseed and all that...) Maybe just be Ultras for the kicks and giggles?

 

What if they were slightly psychic but stole some warp spider tech from Eldar? (Is that even possible?)

 

So basically this fight scene, but with arbites and a planetary governor, and one big angry poofy space marine.

 

I gotta get back to class, but what do my fellow Libers think?

[Octavulg]

Cursed Founding is the logical source. Don't call them the Nightcrawlers. Subtlety and all that.

 

As to what geneseed - depends on how they teleport. Assuming they do it by accessing the warp, the Thousand Sons would make some sense. I think it's far better to have them be Cursed Founding than steal stuff from the Eldar.

[soddinnutter]

They could use teleporter technology to a worrying degree. If used properly it is an extremely effective weapon after all. You 'port down into the HQ with a couple of power claws and 'port back before the blood has finished dripping off the ceiling. All the rebels or whoever know is that all the rebel brass have been dismembered in a sealed bunker that was locked from the inside. News get around and the rebels get so jumpy they make mistakes.

 

Over exposure to the technology could have had a cumulative and lasting effect. bouncing through the warp with minimal shielding has caused, over the passing of centuries, the veterans to become mutated.The Betchers Glands starts to cause cause deviant growth patterns in the teeth resulting in predatory looking fangs. The Ossmodula causes the bones in the fingers and toes to grow into claws. The Occulobe results in the eye colour changing to golds, greens and reds.

 

The Catalepsean Node is possibly the most disturbing of the mutations that develop. If the marine is a psyker, latent or active, they gain the ability to see things in their minds. And 'port to them using nothing but the power of thought, not that this is without massive risks to the untrained.

 

The older they are, the more like Nightcrawler they become. I would refrain from making the current or first Chapter Master be called Kurt Wagner as it lacks all manner of subtlety.

 

To have managed to get hold of a teleporter device you would have to be a chapter with enough history to have the mechanicus owe you big favors. Older than the Cursed 21st and maybe even older than the Black 13th.

 

They would have to Warrior-Monks to be Nightcrawler like with the Fortress-Monastery being a spartan spiritual canter of quiet dignity as much as a Nuclear Bunker. Also Dark Angels style full body covering robes with deep hoods have to be worn when not in power armour.

 

The =I= would probably treat them like they treat the Exorcists or to a lesser extent the Navigators. They are given a certain level of tolerance provided they prove to always be faithful, useful and reasonably obedient. Which is not to say that they are trusted, an old Inquisitor reaching the end of their twilight years could be given the job of observer as a sort of pension.

 

Do not start using Eldar Tech as it is generally not useable by humans. It is usually psychically controlled and on rare occasions possessed of some level of intelligence.

 

Gene-seed is not all that important unless you want them to be traitor or loyalist. You could have The Siege Specialists of Khan battling the Skull Takers of Prospero if you give them an adequate reason.

[Shinzaren]

I would caution against this idea. Teleporting marines have been tried before, and rarely end well. They either come across as very M.I.S.S. (Me? I'm. So. Super.), or utterly impractical. Also, you are not using a theme, you are bashing people upside the head with it and knocking them unconscious. Subtlety wins the day here.

 

Watching the Scene you linked makes it even more clearly M.I.S.S. It seems fairly hard to swallow for me, and I would serious issues seeing this fit into the share universe all that well. After all, if teleporting is that great, why hasn't anyone else done this?

[soddinnutter]

I would caution against this idea. Teleporting marines have been tried before, and rarely end well. They either come across as very M.I.S.S. (Me? I'm. So. Super.), or utterly impractical. Also, you are not using a theme, you are bashing people upside the head with it and knocking them unconscious. Subtlety wins the day here.

 

Watching the Scene you linked makes it even more clearly M.I.S.S. It seems fairly hard to swallow for me, and I would serious issues seeing this fit into the share universe all that well. After all, if teleporting is that great, why hasn't anyone else done this?

The Salamanders do int regularly to get from the Homeworld to their moon base. The Marines Malevolent make use of it. The Inquisition use it when the need arises. The Dark Angels use it to sneak up on The Fallen. The Imperial Fists use it, although I will admit it killed half the 1st company when the chaos cultists distorted the warp.

 

The only reason it is not more widely used is because of the inherent risks and the rarity of the devices. But if you already have the device and you are a little too lax in your attitude of the risks from taking the view that the Emperor will call you when it is your time and not before then you can teleport all day e'rry day and jut live with the consequences.

 

And claiming that that fight scene is exactly what a Space Marine would do if they could, what and with them being specialist at moving fast and butchering before they can get caught in a meat grinder.

 

And if you are going to argue that any Chapter with a theme is a M.I.S.S. then that would be everything ever written here by any here ever. And most of the GW chapters that aren't Ultramarine clones No. 1 - 749.

[Lysimachus]

The obvious precedent is that Librarians can teleport via Gate of Infinity, therefore a psyker-heavy Chapter (maybe 23rd Founding, potential 1k sons successors as Octavulg said) would seem a logical place to start? However, Shinzaren is right about the dangers of MISS; perhaps you could counteract it by making the Chapter extremely low in numbers? I could definately see that in a Chapter full of warp-jumpers there would be a seriously high percentage of training fatalities?

 

Edit: That's without even mentioning the whole hunted-by-the-Inquisition-because-of-their-extreme-corruption thing, though I'm guessing you've already thought of this as you've titled it IA -> IT?

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

This sounds familiar :lol:

 

Hmmmmm. The potential Thousand Sons successor sounds plausible (if either Thirteenth or Twenty-first Founding, of course). Do you want every marine to be able to teleport, or do you just want that favored tactics?

 

I like the Warp Spider idea, perhaps that's what leads them to Tzeentch? Forbidden knowledge and all that?

 

All that I'd advise at this point is be very, very careful, and very, very patient B)

[Shinzaren]

The Salamanders do int regularly to get from the Homeworld to their moon base. The Marines Malevolent make use of it. The Inquisition use it when the need arises. The Dark Angels use it to sneak up on The Fallen. The Imperial Fists use it, although I will admit it killed half the 1st company when the chaos cultists distorted the warp.

There is a difference between teleporting from point A to B with a teleporter, and teleporting from A to B to C to D to A to C to B to A to C. The Eldar Warp Spiders do this, and it is mentioned everywhere in their Codex as being extremely dangerous, and that is with tech that far exceeds anything the Imperium has ever put together. I not suggesting teleporting into a battle is M.I.S.S. I am suggesting that teleporting all OVER a battle is M.I.S.S.

 

The only reason it is not more widely used is because of the inherent risks and the rarity of the devices. But if you already have the device and you are a little too lax in your attitude of the risks from taking the view that the Emperor will call you when it is your time and not before then you can teleport all day e'rry day and jut live with the consequences.

The loss rate on teleporting accidents is pretty high already. Not untenable, just higher than anyone would like. And that is with 1 jump at a time, between two points clearly laid out in advance. Teleporting all across a battlefield, multiple times in a fight is going to get you swallowed in the Warp. The loss rate on this type of combat would be staggering, making any Chapter that can do it successfully, without tons and tons of losses, quite M.I.S.S. to me.

 

And claiming that that fight scene is exactly what a Space Marine would do if they could, what and with them being specialist at moving fast and butchering before they can get caught in a meat grinder.

That fight scene is exactly what Space Marines would do to Arbiter forces protecting a Governor as is. No teleporting needed, simply the overwhelming strength of the Space Marine, his armor, and his weapons. Also, Nightcrawler relies on his tremendous agility to do what he does and truly take advantage of his ability to teleport. Space Marines are friggin huge, and teleporting all across smallish rooms is going to end badly. As DAT remembers, the teleporting idea is very hard to work with and be believable. I'm not saying it can't be done. I'm just saying that if you want to avoid a completely overpowered chapter/warband that really stretches the universe, you need to do it really really carefully.

 

And if you are going to argue that any Chapter with a theme is a M.I.S.S. then that would be everything ever written here by any here ever. And most of the GW chapters that aren't Ultramarine clones No. 1 - 749.

Teleporting Marines isn't a theme. It is a gimmick, and there is nothing wrong with that. Gimmicks give a good chapter more flavor. However, they also can override a badly written chapter and make them seem impractical. You could apply teleporting powers to the themes of every chapter and not fundamentally alter their ideals and their beliefs. You wouldn't really change their outlook on the galaxy, or how they organize themselves. Teleporting is not a chapter theme, and that is fine. Working teleporting marines into a chapter is difficult, but not impossible. However, focusing only the teleporting aspect and nothing more will result in unrealistic marines that are woefully one-dimensional.

 

Still, while my own opinions on the matter are obviously well known by this point, it should be noted that they are strictly that. Opinions. I'm not going to blast you again and again for making teleporting marines. If you make teleporting marines and do it completely how you want, that's fine. I won't bother or attack you about them in the least. I'll simply leave you to it, and watch where they go.

[soddinnutter]

Space marines are agile. Read Lords of the Night. Zso Shaal bounces around a large underhive cavern cutting people up with surgical precision whilst still moving too quick for anyone in the small army he is assaulting to get off a clear shot at him.

[Hialmar]

I would not suggest using teleporters to move around but certainly using Deepstriking Terminators and a full force of Assualt Squads Vanguard with Jump Packs along with Librarians using Gate of Infinity to teleport your Tactical or Sternguard around would work as well. This would prevent any sort of over-powered claims while still getting at some of the flavor.

 

I would use Codex marines and as far as colors go I would suggest a dark, dark blue with red and white trim.

[Omega Striker]

Hey these are excellent ideas, people.

 

Thanks also for the warnings. I know there were lots of Internet Inquisitors shouting "M.I.S.S." during my Dragons of the Void IA.

 

I am going to think about this one much harder than my previous, and I hope to do this right.

 

Since most people are okay with this, I want to start with cursed founding (21st or whatever) and have them be KSons geneseed.

 

I will be leaning towards a smaller chapter with a few really old members. Does anyone know if KSons live longer than normal, or will the old age thing happen after the fall to the warp (shhhhhh! It's a secret! :wacko: )

 

Although I wanted to make it so there was plenty of teleporting, I wanted to do it the vanilla marine codex way, with one sneak from the chaos book: aspiring sorcerers from the actual KSons army units (Rubric Marines) Basically something like all sergeants can GoI. The usual gate and psyker rules apply. Is that too overpowered on the tabletop? Hmmmm....

 

I will think on this more, but I need sleep to do this even marginally well.

[Omega Striker]

So I was pitching my ideas about the chapter to my sounding board (aka FLGS manager/fluff buff) and he said that it would be possible to have a special rules something to the tune of "At the start of your turn, roll a d6 for each unit on the field. Each unit getting a 4+ is returned to reserves, and is able to deepstrike during the following phase" So basically, any unit could be "warp-jumped" around the field, so it keeps the flavor, but is not game breaking. There is room for error: reserves can not come in, I could deepstrike mishap and die or misplace myself, I could have a unit in a sticky situation not 'port out when I want them to, etc. This would be cool, and has flavored how I want my chapter to behave.

 

Anyways, on to the gritty details:

 

 

Chapter Name: Pious Souls/Night Screamers (both pending)(by the way, when I make the official IA thread, do I name it after the before, or the 'current time' of the end of the 40th millenium?)

 

Geneseed: Thousand Sons, with additional tinkering, and later mutations.

 

Founding: 21st (cursed)

 

Homeworld: Jenova/Planet of the Sorcerers - high natural psyker rate, desert planet

 

Something of an Egypt ripoff, another Prospero, basically. Should I stay close to the original KSons, or should I go another way?

 

Combat Doctrine: Favors heavy use of teleportation, and first company mixing with scouts, mobile heavy weapons

 

This is pretty basic, and I will work on it more later.

 

Beliefs/Chapter Cult: Chapter has ridiculously high casualty rate, due to unstable geneseed and warp-power training. However, some few rare cases result in a perfect balance of geneseed and powers, the ideal combo for high-warp ability and use. These make up the first company, the veterans, and the sergeant-psykers. The rest of the chapter is initiates trying to discover the 'perfect fusion', the mix of geneseed and power that makes the ideal PS/NS marine. Recruitment is massive, because even after the marinification, many are lost to madness, chaos, and teleportation mishaps.

 

So, basically, lots of loss, highly inefficient. Is it too much MISS? I want a hard, elite core of super-psykers that fall to chaos, and lots of scouts/cultists for the chapter. Basically, there is a lot of people that the gene seed does not agree with most (say 93 out of 100 of those that actually made it through the marinification), but there are a few that are born with a near-perfect match of their natural genes (including psyker gene) and the demands made by the genes of Magnus the Red. This makes a mean psyker, but it makes for a lot of mutated/crazy/dead aspiring sorcerers.

 

History: Something about how the chapter was slowly gathering a pile of mutants in their fortress, and then there is this breakout and mutants flood out and the planet goes into panic and the inquisition finds out and all hell breaks loose and exterminatus and fleeing and chasing and whispers of the dark gods and prayers and rituals and AEFASCSRACSOCMSLRENSJLCSNMKLSCNSBLURG and then.....well, you know. The basic Imperial misunderstanding coupled with extra arms and stuff. It goes bad. Covenants made with Tzeentch, and maybe the Rubric is extended to some of the mutants. Hmmmm.

 

So, maybe I am now drifting into KSons territory. What do I do to avoid that?

 

 

 

Okay, so there is something for the hounds to chew on. I am having trouble keeping these boys separate from their geneseed. I think that Shinzaren was right, I am just making an excuse to make a gimmicky KSons. Hmmmm. Needs more thinking. I will meditate on this.