Plaguecaster Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 It sucks that we cannot have land raider crusaders in our army could you imagine 16 plague marines or any other cult or chaos marine charging out of it to decimate any unit that gets in there way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 It sucks that we cannot have land raider crusaders in our army could you imagine 16 plague marines or any other cult or chaos marine charging out of it to decimate any unit that gets in there way I would be happy with update Phobos patterns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Possessed Marine Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 personally, I love 20 man groups, especially 'zerks... it always gives your opponent that clenching feeling, you know, "down there" doubly sure if Khârn is along with them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother_Fatiswon Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 :( thank you TDA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hiro_Protagonist Posted August 8, 2011 Author Share Posted August 8, 2011 Enhanced Warriors by Bile however, DOES make them fearless. ;) TDA My bad, totally forgot that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burningblood Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 Sorry about making a clone post earlier. I should have just read the titles of the posts on this page. I think I'm making at least a one thousand point horde list at first and seeing where it goes from there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darth_giles Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 I'll be honest, I tend to prefer 10-man squads. The rule about 20-man squads came from the 3.5 chaos codex, which was done so you could take 20-man Khorne Berzerker squads like in the 3.0 codex. I don't think I've ever seen anyone using squads much above 10, though. I know my World Eaters had squads of 8, that being the Sacred Number of Khorne and all. There isn't much of an advantage in having squads that big, especially since you don't get extra heavy or assault weapons, or more icon bearers, even in the 3.5 days. Ten-marine squads also fit better into Rhinos, so the only armies that didn't get penalized by that were the Death Guard, who could only take a certain number of mounted squads as troops. So in that sense you could get away with having squads of fourteen (that being twice the Sacred Number of Nurgle), but I don't remember many people even doing that. Definitely not with 'Zerkers because the Talisman of Burning Blood was really unreliable when you needed the extra movement. Maybe Noise Marines because of the extra sonic blasters- stationary sonic blasters could pour out a ton of fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burningblood Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 Well, the thing is, I don't think I've ever seen a chaos horde army. I think it would be fun to play. I'm only sort of competitive in my play attitude. I don't mind loosing if its a fun game. As a plus, this will be a lot of fun to run as an ally army to the small ork horde force I'm building for my son! Edit: As an aside, is it better to run this as mostly chaos undivided or dedicated to Khorne? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacinda Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 I will be playing chaos in the 'ard boyz coming up. Most of my squads are 10 strong for the second special weapon. I usually also take a squad of PM for objective sitting and any left over points get dump here as extra fodder. My list as it stands will include 13 PMs in the squatter squad. That is about as large of a squad as I ever take. All other troops are 10 man except for one 9 man berzerker squad so that they will fit with Abby in a land raider. Abadon, 8 berzerkers plus a skull champion with a powerfist assaulting out of a LR can tear through wound allocations and flatten most supported HQs. No need for over-sized units there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacinda Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 As an aside, is it better to run this as mostly chaos undivided or dedicated to Khorne? Since you are running a horde approach for giggles anyway ... why not go Slaanesh? =^.^= Give in to the pleasures of flesh. I promise I won't be gentle :) Actually, if you want to maximize model count, you can field 14 "undivided" marines for the same cost as 10 berzerkers. Short of resorting to summoned daemons, this is as close to a horde as you can get. On the other hand ... when charging, the basic CSM will get 3 attacks. 3 attacks * 14 models = 42 total attacks. The berzerkers will get 4 attacks on a charge. 4 attacks * 10 models = 40 attacks. I my opinion, the Furious Charge of Khorne's warriors more than makes up for the 2 attack (and 4 wounds from the extra models) difference so unless I need more shooty, I go with berzerkers. Speaking of shooty ... on the other other hand, berzerkers can not rapid fire. *shrug* It really is a toss up. Another problem with few and large units is that it breaks down in efficiency. Your opponent can effectively hold up a 20 man, 500 point assault unit with a few 5 man combat squads placed in your path one at a time. Basically sacrificing a few pawns to keep your queen out of play. Be wary of this tactic and use your horde where it can do the most damage; assault multiple units if you can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristoff Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 As an aside, is it better to run this as mostly chaos undivided or dedicated to Khorne? Depends on your end objective. Berzerkers would be more efficient use of your points over all, but you would be able to field far more Tacticals. If nothing else, I'd start out with 1 of each and expand from there. Use the Tacticals to provide covering fire for the Zerkers as they run forward. Though Havoks would be better at covering fire with more access to nasty weapons. All other troops are 10 man except for one 9 man berzerker squad so that they will fit with Abby in a land raider. Abadon, 8 berzerkers plus a skull champion with a powerfist assaulting out of a LR can tear through wound allocations and flatten most supported HQs. No need for over-sized units there. I'm sure that you mean Abby, Skull Champion, and 7 Zerkers. Abby's bulky, remember? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burningblood Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 I had an idea for an army based on Roman military doctrine (original, I know), where I established squads as cohorts. This would be a very shooty army, and of course, with all those models, I can always make more competitive lists later. I thought of a large thousand sons squad as sort of representing the first cohort of a legion, supported by the regular chaos marines (representing the newer legionares who always take the front lines), supported by Havoks in the rear (representing the most veteran and heavily armed troops). Of course I'll have to get some berserkers- every Legion needs its crazy barbarian mercenaries, after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacinda Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 I'm sure that you mean Abby, Skull Champion, and 7 Zerkers. Abby's bulky, remember? DOH!! .. erase, erase, scribble, scribble ... I can't believe no one has ever caught that before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristoff Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 I'm sure that you mean Abby, Skull Champion, and 7 Zerkers. Abby's bulky, remember? DOH!! .. erase, erase, scribble, scribble ... I can't believe no one has ever caught that before. It's probably because Abby LOOKS like he's still wearing XL Power Armor instead of TDA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darth_giles Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 Since you are running a horde approach for giggles anyway ... why not go Slaanesh? =^.^= Give in to the pleasures of flesh. I promise I won't be gentle ;) 20x Noise Marines with maxed Sonic Blasters is going to be a hell of a lot of fire going downrange, especially if they get to stand still. And if they get charged, they still have the BP and CCW, plus the initiative bonus. So while they might not get as many attacks as 'Zerkers or be quite as 'ard as Plague Marines, they make a good middle-of-the-road choice. Y'know, now I'm starting to think about doing an Emperor's Children host now more than Word Bearers... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burningblood Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 I picture: Droves of chaos marines of all stripes, led by a demon prince and sorcerer, acting as more or less a meat shield for a summoned greater demon. Sounds like fun to me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune Priest Ridcully Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 I'm thinking of trying out larger (possible 20 man) squads of Thousand sons, yes I know they can't get in rhinos, which is problematic because of slow and purposefull. However, the advantage over several smaller squads is you do not need to pay the pts for multiple Aspiring sorcerers. Also, a 20 man squad, whereether plain chaos or cult, could be good for sitting on a home objective, being big enought not to be scared off by a light amount of fire (especially in cover) whilst the rest of yourarm goes forward to get the other objectives perhaps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 20 rubric marines would be quite the speedbump, however the first thing that comes to mind is the fact that a single AV11 walker could hold up the entire squad almost indefinitely. Even something like a sentinel would keep them busy for awhile. Thousand sons are already weak to walkers and increasing squad size without increasing the number of sorcerers makes them an even more inviting target. That said, if you can cover your anti-tank/walker needs elsewhere and use rhinos as blockers, it would be better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother_Fatiswon Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 this tread has got my brain clicking: still of the opinion that F.Bile + Mark of Slannessh is the way to go, but maybe run x3 twenty man squads: 2 of which would be from troops: and the 3rd could be made up of Havoks from heavy support: armed with x4 plasma guns and the MoN for added protection from shooting. or maybe only use x2 twenty man squads with pairs of vindicators, dreads and chaos spawns: ie what would happen if F.Bile went on the warpath Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 this tread has got my brain clicking: still of the opinion that F.Bile + Mark of Slannessh is the way to go Why Slaanesh? Assuming you are getting "enhanced' so you're Fearless, which renders IoCG basically pointless, I would rank Slaanesh as the next worst options because 1) I5 is only helpful in the assault phase 2) I5 is meaningless against <I4 or >I5. Khorne suffers the same #1 issue but +1A is always useful, especially with the (really) buried power fist. Nurgle offers nothing offensively but the T5 is useful both against both shooting and assault. It still brings up the issue of why you wouldn't spend the equivalent amount of points on plague marines instead though. Tzeentch would actually be my choice because my concern is that it would be difficult to routinely get a cover save with 20 guys. Sure a 4+ cover save beats out a 5++ save but I'd rather have 5++ then nothing and unlike a cover save, it offers protection in the assault phase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacinda Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 this tread has got my brain clicking: still of the opinion that F.Bile + Mark of Slannessh is the way to go, but maybe run x3 twenty man squads: 2 of which would be from troops: and the 3rd could be made up of Havoks from heavy support: armed with x4 plasma guns and the MoN for added protection from shooting.or maybe only use x2 twenty man squads with pairs of vindicators, dreads and chaos spawns: ie what would happen if F.Bile went on the warpath If you are only using 40 troop models there is no reason you can not take 4 squads of 10 instead of 2 squads of 20. If you look at the costs, 2 squads of 20 with champion and a pair of meltas is the same price as 2 squads of 10 basic marines plus 2 squads of 10 with champion and a pair meltas. Plus one bad roll will pin 10 men instead of 20 (less the casualties of course). And finally, if you take 20 man squad after a troop in a rhino, your meltas can pop the box but then the other 18 models stand there watching the enemy come out of the wreak. If they were to separate squads, those enemies clumped up together from an emergency disembark would be eating bolter rounds from the second, 10 man squad. After the split fire, both of your squads can still charge together. Don't get me wrong; I am not trying to trash your idea. Just offering a few tactical options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menkeroth Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 It's simply different tactics. The Horde and some 10-man mobile squads - different things, aren't they? B) Our Codex allows us to use both variants, but it's quite obvious it's easier to use the 2/3 ten-man squads rather then pair of 15-20 as we're not Orks or IG. (it's the same - Orks and IG prefer to field large armies though they both can have quite small numbers). I know well the usual tactics so myself i want to field two 20-man squads with IoT and vehicles for firing support - as it was mentioned it has some advantages and looks impressively B) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hiro_Protagonist Posted August 17, 2011 Author Share Posted August 17, 2011 Loss vs Space Wolves :) Fielded DP (Tzeentch), 20 Possessed w/ Nurgle, 20 CSM w/stuff, 20CSM w/stuff. Auto-Las Pred. (admittabley poor build) vs. Thunder Lord, Wolf Priest, 4 Greyhunter squads (Rhinos and Upgrades for all), small wolf pack, 3 Long Fang packs w/ Missles. Tabled turn 6 otherwise would have been a 6-2 victory for chaos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menkeroth Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 You have nearly won and against SW - good news :) Can you tell the battle in details? Armies both're very interesting! (As the SW often prefer quite another builds). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hiro_Protagonist Posted September 5, 2011 Author Share Posted September 5, 2011 You have nearly won and against SW - good news :D Can you tell the battle in details? Armies both're very interesting! (As the SW often prefer quite another builds). Nothing really to tell. Minimal cover means little can stand against 15 ML a turn. Thunderlord and Possessed created mutual tar-pit. Not the Battle Report area so I won't go into any further detail. Next battle is Sept 6. 2050 Chaos horde vs 2100 Nurgle. (it's a campaign, hence the mixed point values). Annihilation, Dawn of War. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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