Grey Knights: How to "annihilate" Dark Eldar

[Cmdr Shepard]

Greeting Battle Brothers!

 

I plan to play a highly competitive match against Dark Eldar in the next weeks. It won't be properly a tournament but just a "friendly duel" on 40k tables

I already played and won against Dark Eldar but I need your advice about developing the most competitive strategy possible.

 

I have gathered some knowledge about his playing style.

He usually rely on haywire weaponery: both in the form of granades or scourge's rifles.

Against GK/SM he uses raiders/ Ravagers in both anti-tank and anti-infatry (S5, AP2 weapons) configuration.

Recently he fielded Voidraven/Razorwing skimmers

He tend to use small unit on venoms and scourges.

 

However I have to suppose he can alter his tactics, so I ask you assistence in finding tactics able to work against DE in general.

 

This is what I have learned about DE's weakness against GK during my previous games, correct me if I'm wrong.

 

Plasma Cannons deal a tremendous damage to DE infatry units. During one game my TL-Plasma Cannon Stormraven decimated a hellions unit, with the help of psy-strike missiles the hellions were destroyed in a single turn.

 

Psy-riflemen dreads are not only superb in neutralizing DE trasports but can superbly deal with infantry too.

 

A 10 purifier unit were wiped out due to a Lelith led Wyches unit intervention but I suppose without Lelith they would have issue in fighting hallberd purifiers.

 

Paladins with FNP can sustain a lot of fire from DE's small weapons or charging units but they can have troubles in dealing with Dark Lances.

 

Stormbolter and Psy-cannons efficency against DE is self-explanatory :)

 

I never tried Incinerators but I suppose they can pose a seroius threat to the T3 xenos but they are a very limited range. Heavy Incinerator should be devastating.

 

TP Dreadknight armed with Heavy Incinerator is another serious threat but I fear DE's poisoned weaponery can ruin his day.

 

Do you have any suggestions?

 

You assistance is appreciated as always.

[spartan249]

Speaking from experience, dreadnoughts are probably Dark Eldar's worst nightmare.

 

Haywire grenades hit on a 6, their lance weapons are all basically overpriced missile launchers against them, and they all sport weapons that threaten just about anything in their army list.

 

Couple this with the fact that GK dreadnoughts have Fortitude, and you can double their annoying factor.

 

Double Autocannon Dreads with or without psybolts (I recommend with) will be worth their weight in gold, especially when brought en masse.

 

Back this long range firepower up with some sort of flamer support, as it's inevitable that the DE player will want to fly near/over your forces. When he does, have the ability to punish him hard with incinerators, which will instant kill most of his stuff and ignore their cover saves.

 

Bring plenty of Knights and a techmarine, bolster up a ruin, hunker down and shoot it out. They can only run so far, and with rifle dreads, they're going to be in range guaranteed if they want to engage your forces.

[Cmdr Shepard]

Speaking from experience, dreadnoughts are probably Dark Eldar's worst nightmare.

 

Haywire grenades hit on a 6, their lance weapons are all basically overpriced missile launchers against them, and they all sport weapons that threaten just about anything in their army list.

 

Couple this with the fact that GK dreadnoughts have Fortitude, and you can double their annoying factor.

The only haywire weapon that would not hit on 6 is the scourges's rifle but in my opinion this unit is overpriced for what it can do.

 

Double Autocannon Dreads with or without psybolts (I recommend with) will be worth their weight in gold, especially when brought en masse.

I'll play a 2000 pts match so do you suggest to fill every heavy suppoet choice with them or using even some Elite Venerable dread?

 

Back this long range firepower up with some sort of flamer support, as it's inevitable that the DE player will want to fly near/over your forces. When he does, have the ability to punish him hard with incinerators, which will instant kill most of his stuff and ignore their cover saves.

The "cheapest" incinerators in GK belongs to Purifiers and Purgation squads. Deploying a significant number of the firsr requires Crowe while the second occupy a heavy support choice useful for dreads.

What do you think about a Purifiers against DE?

 

Bring plenty of Knights and a techmarine, bolster up a ruin, hunker down and shoot it out. They can only run so far, and with rifle dreads, they're going to be in range guaranteed if they want to engage your forces

GK Techmarine is an unit I'm starting to like alot. What wargear do you suggest? The servo-harness is equiped with a flamer. What about Conversion beamer? DE will close their distance anyway but it can still be effective. Beside until they reach 18" it still deny their armour saves.

 

I'm thinking about fielding a Librarian. Sanctuary can ruin DE assault plans, while shrouding can turn a techmarine bolstered ruin into a 2+ cover save.

What's your opinion on Stormaravens? Dark Lances still function as overpriced ML against them but their cost will reduce the number of infantry models.

Interceptors should be a very useful unit against DE.

 

I have to find an unit of CC specialists... if they come closer.

[spartan249]

I suggest you take as many dreadnoughts as you can get away with after taking your favorite units. 2 or 3 should suffice, IMO.

 

I think the best platform for the Incinerators are Interceptor Squads. While they are pricey at 20 points each, they also have the best mobility and compactness, while also providing you with last turn objective contesting ability. Consider this: They hang out in the middle/rear of your formation, plinking with storm bolters until a target comes in range (which is pretty large considering the jump packs). When the target shows up, jump in and flame. If nothing comes in range, even better, as your deterrent is working for you. Then, at the end of the game, it's highly probable that the DE player's home objective is being held by an infantry squad. Shunt, then flame, and the camping unit will take devastating damage from it. Plus, this unit takes up an FA slot, which doesn't have much competition in the GK codex.

 

As for Purifiers, they're a good workhorse unit to bring against DE. Good shooting ability and good combat ability. The only drawback is price and slot, as you pay for what you get. The only units that stand a good chance of killing them in close combat are the MCs and Incubi, as they sport power weapons at a higher initiative and a good save to weather Cleansing Flame.

 

I equip my techie with a beamer simply because of the way I designed my army. However, I've also tried giving him a NWS, then putting him in with my DCA squad of doom for the extra casting of hammerhand. Using them like this, I achieved a very expensive unit that, unopposed, could achieve 48 S8 power weapon attacks on the charge with 2D6 armor pen at I6. Total overkill, but extremely awesome nonetheless.

 

My GK lists include a librarian by default. The powers and abilities he provides are the best fit for my army and style.

 

I'm indifferent on the stormraven as I don't like how it works. It's definitely able to do it's job (transport a deathstar) quickly and survive with a bit of luck. If you're fond of the model, take them, as they're good at kiting and getting into faces.

 

As for CC specialists, look no further then DCA/Arcoflagellants. For ridiculously cheap prices, they bring insanely high combat ability to supplement any gunline. See above for my example deathstar unit (That clocks in at less then 400 points, to boot).

[Cmdr Shepard]

I suggest you take as many dreadnoughts as you can get away with after taking your favorite units. 2 or 3 should suffice, IMO.

 

I think the best platform for the Incinerators are Interceptor Squads. While they are pricey at 20 points each, they also have the best mobility and compactness, while also providing you with last turn objective contesting ability. Consider this: They hang out in the middle/rear of your formation, plinking with storm bolters until a target comes in range (which is pretty large considering the jump packs). When the target shows up, jump in and flame. If nothing comes in range, even better, as your deterrent is working for you. Then, at the end of the game, it's highly probable that the DE player's home objective is being held by an infantry squad. Shunt, then flame, and the camping unit will take devastating damage from it. Plus, this unit takes up an FA slot, which doesn't have much competition in the GK codex.

It sounds a wise plan. Do you suggest psy-bolt ammo? S5 Stormbolter will wound DE on 2+. It's not a cheap upgrade but it may be useful for this kind of tactic.

I have just talked with a person who recently played against this DE player. It seems he favours splinter cannons, especially the ones mounted on Venoms, to counter infantry. This means many of his units should have 5 men.

This high rate of splinter fire created issues to many players but Interceptor should find a way to avoid such kind of attentions.

 

As for Purifiers, they're a good workhorse unit to bring against DE. Good shooting ability and good combat ability. The only drawback is price and slot, as you pay for what you get. The only units that stand a good chance of killing them in close combat are the MCs and Incubi, as they sport power weapons at a higher initiative and a good save to weather Cleansing Flame.

Hallberds should be able to kill Incubi before they can harm. That's one of the reasons I though about Purifiers. Their major drawback is the presence of Crowe: you need to spend points on him if you want to unlock Purifiers as troops.

 

I equip my techie with a beamer simply because of the way I designed my army. However, I've also tried giving him a NWS, then putting him in with my DCA squad of doom for the extra casting of hammerhand. Using them like this, I achieved a very expensive unit that, unopposed, could achieve 48 S8 power weapon attacks on the charge with 2D6 armor pen at I6. Total overkill, but extremely awesome nonetheless.

This is worth of mention. Especially after the recent FAQ update that allow the Warding Stave 2++ save to be used on perils of the warp if they occur in CC.

Thech-marines can be even equiped with grenades.

 

I'm indifferent on the stormraven as I don't like how it works. It's definitely able to do it's job (transport a deathstar) quickly and survive with a bit of luck. If you're fond of the model, take them, as they're good at kiting and getting into faces.

I noticed the lists played by this opponent encountered difficulties in countering vehicles. As you said Dark Lances are just overpriced ML in most circumstances. The real issue is the point cost: Stormravens are not cheap and fielding only one is not an efficient plan. Shrounding can turn a flat-out cover in a 3++. Beside even the range of Librarian's power like sanctuary are increased since you should measure the range from the vehicle's hull.

If I remember correctly if a skimmer is immobilized when you flat-out the embarked troops are destroyed only if the event occur in the player's turn, namely as result of a failed dangerous test. I remember to have read it in the FAQ.

 

As for CC specialists, look no further then DCA/Arcoflagellants. For ridiculously cheap prices, they bring insanely high combat ability to supplement any gunline. See above for my example deathstar unit (That clocks in at less then 400 points, to boot).

Only depends on the use of Crowe. if I have to field him in order to unlock Purifiers as troops I will not have access to Inquisitorial henchmen. Sadly only SW can field more than 2 HQ, and they usually the have no need of additional choices.

[thade]

I'm going to make a very weird recommendation here; one that I've been mulling over since you posted this. A bit longer even, though in the context of Orks instead of DE. Brace yourself.

 

A Heavy Psilencer/Heavy Incinerator combo on a Dreadknight.

 

Stick with me here.

 

I wouldn't take the psilencer in an infantry unit, since it's competition (incin, psycannon) has many more applications. However, the H. Psilencer has 12 shots at S4 and DE are T3, if I'm not mistaken. The hammer isn't really necessary; nor is the sword (S6 2d6 Monstrous Creature standard is pretty good, especially considering the fragile nature of DE transports). I mean, the sword is nice if you mean to sink the DK into assaults constantly, but it can be very helpful to keep the little pointy-earred jerks at range as long as you can. The H. Psilencer is roughly a five-man tactical squad's worth of fire at decent range. It won't dazzle you, but it'll help pile the wounds on as they approach.

 

Now...you could just skip on the H. Psilencer entirely, go with a DK with a H. Incin, and use those points elsewhere. ;) But I've been struggling with finding really any use case for the thing, and other than the rare Green Tide, this is all I got.

 

In other news, I can definitely get behind the Dreadnought plan.

[spartan249]

Honestly, I suggest having at least 1 Strike Squad in your army somewhere. Warp Quake is a very handy ability to have available, as it blocks off deep striking enemies quite efficiently.

 

I love Psybolt ammo. If you look at my lists, all my 10 man squads with at least 8 storm bolters have it. I wouldn't leave home without it, as it greatly increases their ability to engage enemy infantry and light armor (AV10-11).

 

Venoms are lightweight vehicles with a smaller range then rifle dreads. If you feel that they're going to cause you problems, direct a dread or two at venoms in range. Chances are pretty good that you'll shut them up, if not kill them outright.

 

You can go with halberds if you wish. I don't care too much for melee weapon upgrades because they cost significant points, taking away from your overall shooting ability (which is the crux of the GK strategy IMO). If the DE get into CC on their terms (them assaulting you), then you're already in significant trouble.

[Cmdr Shepard]

I'm going to make a very weird recommendation here; one that I've been mulling over since you posted this. A bit longer even, though in the context of Orks instead of DE. Brace yourself.

 

A Heavy Psilencer/Heavy Incinerator combo on a Dreadknight.

 

Stick with me here.

 

I wouldn't take the psilencer in an infantry unit, since it's competition (incin, psycannon) has many more applications. However, the H. Psilencer has 12 shots at S4 and DE are T3, if I'm not mistaken. The hammer isn't really necessary; nor is the sword (S6 2d6 Monstrous Creature standard is pretty good, especially considering the fragile nature of DE transports). I mean, the sword is nice if you mean to sink the DK into assaults constantly, but it can be very helpful to keep the little pointy-earred jerks at range as long as you can. The H. Psilencer is roughly a five-man tactical squad's worth of fire at decent range. It won't dazzle you, but it'll help pile the wounds on as they approach.

 

Now...you could just skip on the H. Psilencer entirely, go with a DK with a H. Incin, and use those points elsewhere. :) But I've been struggling with finding really any use case for the thing, and other than the rare Green Tide, this is all I got.

 

In other news, I can definitely get behind the Dreadnought plan.

 

Yes, DE are T3. One of DK main limitation comes from its points cost. In order to field one of them, with PT, you must remounce to at least one unit. For example if I'd want a Purifier list or a couple of Stormravens, I haven't still decided so it's just a theoretical talk ;), I won't have the points available.

DK are superbly qualified fire magnets. Once I played it against a Chaos SM army and it survives 4 turns of obliterators fire (I was even able to find some cover). When he went down my Paladins stormed the last objective, crushing berserker's opposition and scoring the victory.

I wanted to test Paladins and DK, so it was not a very competitive list but DK was useful.

 

However I believe the torrent of poisoned fire unleashed by DE can put a DK out of business. Of course DK attrcts fire away from other units but maybe I should field more infatry models. I may be wrong.

By the way H. Inc./PT DK is nasty for many enemies, especially if they favour cover.

 

Honestly, I suggest having at least 1 Strike Squad in your army somewhere. Warp Quake is a very handy ability to have available, as it blocks off deep striking enemies quite efficiently.

I agree. I heard about games where the Daemon player was nearly unable to deploy due to Warp Quake.

 

I love Psybolt ammo. If you look at my lists, all my 10 man squads with at least 8 storm bolters have it. I wouldn't leave home without it, as it greatly increases their ability to engage enemy infantry and light armor (AV10-11).

That's mean not even Ravager are impervious to bolter fire, not to metion the fact S5 storm bolters wound DE on 2+, denying armour save to most of their units.

 

You can go with halberds if you wish. I don't care too much for melee weapon upgrades because they cost significant points, taking away from your overall shooting ability (which is the crux of the GK strategy IMO). If the DE get into CC on their terms (them assaulting you), then you're already in significant trouble.

DE's vehicles move 12", deploy models within 2", run d6": a vast charge range. If you are unlucky with Dread's rolls on pen DE transports they can charge you with ease.

If your units are inside a ruin or move onboard vehicle the risk of a charge decreases significantly.

 

Stormravens can allow GK to shoot DE units and charge the survivors. However they consume points, limiting the number of available units.

 

Do you suggest to "mechanize" infatry units or let them to footslog?

[thade]

His 2+ and wounds will probably help him endure through a little rapid fire. Just keep him at range (i.e. drop the teleporter!) and leverage your ranged weaponry. Hv. Inc + Psilencer. You still have MC hands for when they get close. ;)

[Cmdr Shepard]

His 2+ and wounds will probably help him endure through a little rapid fire. Just keep him at range (i.e. drop the teleporter!) and leverage your ranged weaponry. Hv. Inc + Psilencer. You still have MC hands for when they get close. :)

If I'm not mistaken he should suffer a wound every 18 shots fired. Hit on 3+, wound on 4+, 2+ armour save.

72 shots to bring him down.

 

I suppose I'll leave the stromravens out from the list.

Yesterday I saw a GK vs Tau match and the stormravens were in real trouble. The player fielded a totally uncompetitive list: 2 stormraves, 1 Land Raider crusader, Draigo and 7 paladins, interceptors who remained stationary near an objective plus few other PA GK at 2500 pts. He was outnumbered and out gunned.

 

He made huge mistakes and DE don't have Tau long range fire power but I'm inclined to allocate 410+ pts to other units.

 

If I'd field a DK I should think about a Venerable Dread (just to bring the dreads to three) or maybe a counter-charge purifier unit.

A DK without PT should back up the main "line of fire" toasting the Xenos who try to close their distance. It may work.

 

Since this particular opponet use a list that have hard times against vehicles I wanted to field a mechanized list but it seems a strong "line of bolter/psycannon fire" should create some trouble.

He favours "hide and seek" tactics when his army is overpowered, moving closer in the last turn.

I wonder if setting up a "gun line" may give him an advantage.

[spartan249]

He shouldn't be able to hide a 2k sized army unless the terrain is in City Fight mode, so I say you implement a 2+ cover save plan and plink away. With no anti-psyker abilities, your librarian will be a great asset in this fight.

 

Also, I think you should go with Strikes and Interceptors. Purifiers are good fighters, but without crowe, they don't score and take up elites. If you take 3 or 4 strike squads and 2 interceptor squads, you have 60 Knights (12 Psycannons) for the DE to engage. When they have a 2+ cover save and are bunched up, the DE have to get in close and use flamers or close combat to increase their offensive capabilities. This is where you want them with this army set-up, as you can move everyone closer, fire to full effect if possible, then charge with a sea of power armor. Unlike a Tactical Squad, you're almost guaranteed to do serious damage when you hit with Knights.

 

If you have a familiarity with boxing, you can relate this situation with a fighter trying to stay out of a boxer's range while scoring. Yeah, the fighter may be scoring points and looking fancy, but that boxer gets one solid punch in, and the fighter's plan is shattered.

 

Same deal here. You sit and wait until he becomes frustrated with the 2+ cover save, then deliver the sea of bolter/psycannon fire when they get close. While you're waiting, you can plink with the autocannons.

[Cmdr Shepard]

He shouldn't be able to hide a 2k sized army unless the terrain is in City Fight mode, so I say you implement a 2+ cover save plan and plink away. With no anti-psyker abilities, your librarian will be a great asset in this fight.

 

Also, I think you should go with Strikes and Interceptors. Purifiers are good fighters, but without crowe, they don't score and take up elites. If you take 3 or 4 strike squads and 2 interceptor squads, you have 60 Knights (12 Psycannons) for the DE to engage. When they have a 2+ cover save and are bunched up, the DE have to get in close and use flamers or close combat to increase their offensive capabilities. This is where you want them with this army set-up, as you can move everyone closer, fire to full effect if possible, then charge with a sea of power armor. Unlike a Tactical Squad, you're almost guaranteed to do serious damage when you hit with Knights.

 

If you have a familiarity with boxing, you can relate this situation with a fighter trying to stay out of a boxer's range while scoring. Yeah, the fighter may be scoring points and looking fancy, but that boxer gets one solid punch in, and the fighter's plan is shattered.

 

Same deal here. You sit and wait until he becomes frustrated with the 2+ cover save, then deliver the sea of bolter/psycannon fire when they get close. While you're waiting, you can plink with the autocannons.

It appear a wise plan. Thank you for the advices.

A great number of power armoured Grey Knights shouldn't be a pelasing experience for a DE army.

 

How do you suggest to equip the Librarian?

I usually give him the warding stave to increase his survivability and the following powers: Sanctuary, Quicksilver, Shrouding, Might of Titan and Warp Rift.

I suppose Warp Rift would have a limited use due to DE's high I value. It works perfectly against vehicles but I doubt he will come so close to a vehicle during the match. Beside they have a low AV value.

 

I planned to field 2 tech-marines with conversion beamers. Are they ok?

 

Would you still give Incinerators to at least one Interceptor squad?

 

How do you suggest to counter units like razorwing skimmers and voidravens? Same tactics above?

I haven't still made calculations but I believe at 2000 pts I could field 3 strike squads: 10 men with 2 psycannons each, two Interceptor squads (10 men,2 incinerators and pys-bolts each, even though I can use psycannons for a squad), Librarian, 2 Tech-Marines with conversion beamer and 2 psy-riflemen dreads.

[Lord Melvin]

As an ultrasmurf who plays against DE somewhat regularly, I will add my knowledge to the pool.

 

First, dreadnoughts are your friend. As others have said before, the lance rule is wasted against AV12, and not much else can hurt a dread otherwise. If riflemen are as great as I hear they are, then go right ahead and take a few. I personally take a dread with assault cannon and DCC to tarpit anything that gets a little too close to my bolter line.

 

Second, bolter lines. Bolter line, bolter line, bolter line. Bolters will make mincemeat out of DE, and seeing as stormbolters are superior to bolters in almost every way they will chew through warriors and other light troops easily.

 

I find the best stategy is to knock out their transports with heavy weapons, forcing the troops to walk, and then gun them down as they close in. A good DE player will aim to do the same to you, however, and will rocket his/her CC troops across the field. Woe betide your forces if Incubi or Wyches get a hold of them, as a full squad of Incubi can punt out 30 or so pw attacks on the charge! Granted, in all of my fights againt DE, the player only had one raider, but the principle applies nontheless. A foot-slogging DE army is a dead DE army.

[Cmdr Shepard]

As an ultrasmurf who plays against DE somewhat regularly, I will add my knowledge to the pool.

 

First, dreadnoughts are your friend. As others have said before, the lance rule is wasted against AV12, and not much else can hurt a dread otherwise. If riflemen are as great as I hear they are, then go right ahead and take a few. I personally take a dread with assault cannon and DCC to tarpit anything that gets a little too close to my bolter line.

 

Second, bolter lines. Bolter line, bolter line, bolter line. Bolters will make mincemeat out of DE, and seeing as stormbolters are superior to bolters in almost every way they will chew through warriors and other light troops easily.

 

I find the best stategy is to knock out their transports with heavy weapons, forcing the troops to walk, and then gun them down as they close in. A good DE player will aim to do the same to you, however, and will rocket his/her CC troops across the field. Woe betide your forces if Incubi or Wyches get a hold of them, as a full squad of Incubi can punt out 30 or so pw attacks on the charge! Granted, in all of my fights againt DE, the player only had one raider, but the principle applies nontheless. A foot-slogging DE army is a dead DE army.

Your advices are very appreciated.

 

DE transport are vital resources to their strategy but they have minimal armour. They can have a 5++ save but in the end they are extremely fragile. Several players use the webway portal but this force the army to foot-slogg anf as you said "A foot-slogging DE army is a dead DE army". Beside the webway portal will make you clear where most of the enemy units will gather.

 

 

I suppose I'll be able to write down a list soon. I have still to decide the number of dreads (since they are DE's worst nightmare I should add more than 2) and Tech-Marines.

[Hellios]

He shouldn't be able to hide a 2k sized army unless the terrain is in City Fight mode, so I say you implement a 2+ cover save plan and plink away.

No you can hide a DE army on a suitable board with suitable terrain... but it depends what you are running and how.

 

DE transport are vital resources to their strategy but they have minimal armour. They can have a 5++ save but in the end they are extremely fragile. Several players use the webway portal but this force the army to foot-slogg anf as you said "A foot-slogging DE army is a dead DE army". Beside the webway portal will make you clear where most of the enemy units will gather.

 

Oh I don't know you can use Web-way portals in a hybrid list... Then it has a speed it needs... depending on how the DE player is running things it can add risk early on (for him) but have benefits later in the game if played correctly.

 

 

Anyway what I would say as very basic advice (you already have lots of advice on taking dreads.)...

 

Dark Eldar in the old dex were often a case of win big or lose big... Now it isn't always as clear cut but a lot of the same principles apply. Dark Eldar like to come in with a knife stroke early on and cut the strings that hold you up... Once your strings have been cut they they finish you off at their leisure. So what do you do?

 

Well when the first (or before) cut comes in you either need to deflect it or break the knife. If you break the knife... yay DE are dead problem solved... Deflecting the strike is stopping them doing what they want to do! The obvious example that is often given is take down their transports quickly! But against less experienced players I've done this by bringing (from reserves or deepstrike) sacrifice units on their backboard making them take some of their effort away from the main attack... turning the balance in my favor... if you have fast scouting units maybe you can tie them up where they don't want to be... Maybe you just position one of your units where they can't threaten it without exposing themselves first... Who knows... lots of things can be done but it depends on all the factors of the game.

 

Now once you have survived the first blow you need to target the threats to whatever it is the dark eldar want to kill... If you stop the Dark Eldar cutting your strings he can't force you to play his game... You might not play your game but it makes things easier... If you can get into a war of attrition with the DE you will probably win!

 

Castling is often a good plan if you can do it (depending on terrain and mission) but again that is a judgement call for you to make. Basically it makes it harder for your strings to be cut :tu:. Ideally you want to have anti-tank defense that can target foes from about 42 inches from the front of your castle, although ranges over 54 inches are best but I'm not sure that Grey Knights can do that.

 

Win the first two turns of the game and DE don't normally recover... lose the first two and it might already be over...

[Cmdr Shepard]

Thank you for sharing your personal experience Hellios.

 

I played DE for a couple of months after the release of the 5th Edition Codex, although not in a copetitive setting, and I always had troubles with the volume of fire unleashed by Space Marine armies against DE transports. I won several games ( victories equaled the loss) but it was never easy. I don't want to think the fate of my DE if the played against IG.

"To cut the strings" was not a easy task and I lost most models. When transports blow up wyches, with their 6+ armour save, are in real danger.

 

As I said I never played competitive lists but I had far more success with SM armies.

The tables of my local store feature tall ruins. Even in no cities of death scenario there are at least 2 ruins where shootting units can castle delivering their load of heavy fire on the fragile DE transport. This created many troubles to DE, when I briefly played them.

 

I'm sure there are more experienced DE players around. I discovered to be better as SM player :P