Brother_Byhlli Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 I know this topic has been done to death, but my computer's down and I've no way to efficiently search the boards. I know there's a bunch of chat about including a Wolf Guard in the Grey Hunters pack and the problems that causes in either not getting the second special weapon or in being too large a squad for transport. I was looking at the Codex and I noticed that the Grey Hunters entry only says 'If the squad numbers ten models, a second Grey Hunter model may replace his bolter with a weapon from the above list at no additional cost.' Surely adding a Wolf Guard PackLeader to a nine-man Grey Hunter pack gives you a squad that numbers ten models? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234833-grey-hunters-and-wolf-guard/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 Welcome to the 1st week after release of the SW Codex. The answer is no. The 'why' is, the Wolf Guard does not join the Grey Hunter squad until deployment and as such when you are writing your list the Grey Hunter unit only numbers 9 models. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234833-grey-hunters-and-wolf-guard/#findComment-2827489 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 And with that, this thread can now be closed. Thank you Sama. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234833-grey-hunters-and-wolf-guard/#findComment-2827497 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother_Byhlli Posted July 23, 2011 Author Share Posted July 23, 2011 Just thinking about this some more and three things occurred to me: 1. Wolf Guard are not Independent Characters. The only mention of Independent Characters in the Wolf Guard is in their description on page 30, wher it specifically states that only Wolf Guard Battle Leaders are Independent Characters. 2. A Wolf Guard seconded to a Grey Hunters pack cannot decide to leave the pack he's assigned to (I assume). 3. Can Wolf Guard Pack Leaders be targeted in close-combat? I genuinely don't know how I'd play this, although I think I'd say the model is a unit upgrade and so cannot be targeted. if these things are all true, PackLeaders are surely unit upgrades that count towards unit size. If they're not true, then a Pack Leader is presumably allowed to leave his unit as an Independent Character and wander off as he wishes. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234833-grey-hunters-and-wolf-guard/#findComment-2827498 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother_Byhlli Posted July 23, 2011 Author Share Posted July 23, 2011 Has that been FAQ'd? Because the Codex only says they join the unit before the battle. There's nothing said about deployment. If GW has FAQ'd the subject with an answer, obviously I have no complaints. But if not, I don't see how your interpretation makes sense according to the Codex. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234833-grey-hunters-and-wolf-guard/#findComment-2827501 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wulfebane Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 if these things are all true, PackLeaders are surely unit upgrades that count towards unit size. If they're not true, then a Pack Leader is presumably allowed to leave his unit as an Independent Character and wander off as he wishes. Guess what? Space Wolves are special! Erego, they have special rules written in the codex for this purpose. Wolf Guard Pack Leaders are different from Wolf Guard Battle Leaders, so the IC thinking should go right out the window. When reading under the Wolf Guard heading, and as SamaNagol has stated, Wolf Guard are added BEFORE deployment, but AFTER the list is written up, therefore, they are considered to be part of their Wolf Guard pack, and then dispersed as Pack Leaders prior to deployment. What this means is that they only count toward the Wolf Guard pack's numbers and not the Grey Hunter packs' numbers because on the army list, they are joined to the Wolf Guard pack. As you mentioned, this has been beaten to death. It might be advisable to wait until you have better search functions and try searching again as this horse is now decayed and rotting. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234833-grey-hunters-and-wolf-guard/#findComment-2827509 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xeenos Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 While i get what your saying about the 10 models, your Wolf Guard are their own pack, and they are not assigned to Grey Hunters or otherwise tell the deployment starts. So while you are putting down a squad of 10 models, they were not 10 back on the battle barge so the Iron Priest deemed they could only take one special weapon! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234833-grey-hunters-and-wolf-guard/#findComment-2827526 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dswanick Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 Read the FAQ... Q. Can a Grey Hunter unit that consists of nine GreyHunters and a Wolf Guard Pack Leader take a second special weapon? (p26) A. No, as the unit is not comprised of ten models until just before the battle starts, at which point it is far too late to be tinkering with your army list. This provides players who wish to mount their Grey Hunters in a Rhino or Drop Pod Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234833-grey-hunters-and-wolf-guard/#findComment-2827552 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 Yeh, reading the rules and the FAQs is always the best place to start before you try and convince people of your logic and reasoning on a ruling. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234833-grey-hunters-and-wolf-guard/#findComment-2828233 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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