Derrios Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 So my buddies and I are doing a DIY chapter and each of us is going to have a company. I've always loved dreadnoughts and when you select MOTF it allows you to select dreads as two selections. I also really like tactical termis. So in conjuction with a 10 man termi 2xCML 2xchain fist: What type of dread load outs would be complimentry to this "core" unit? I have 2 ironclads and 3 normal dreads right now. Prior to some rearranging I had both ironclads in drop pods to increase the mobility, but the rest of my list isnt set up to be mobile so I figured sending 2 ICD into their doom doesn't seem like an intelligent way to use their points. Both are kitted up to be CC and vehicle killers and have HF for some anti infantry love. The 3xnormal dreads are setup currently w/ AC+ML. I am not a fan of rifleman Dreads. So pretty much Im using 5(2xIC 3xnormal) dreads and a 10x Termi unit as the core of my army. I am pretty new to the actual gaming aspect so any insight into pitfalls and capabilities would be usful. Im not intending this to be insane competitive. It's more fluff based, but I don't want to be steamrolled, so any advice would be appreciated edit: my army includes 2 tac squads and a full sniper squad as well. Also 1850 list Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Melta Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 hello! How many points are you talking? Taking 470 points worth of termies and 5 dreads with a few upgrades, and the MOTF should hit around 12-1300 points.... I hope you are playing more than 1500. Dreads by themselves don't kill lots of stuff. They can be killy but not like, say 10 terminators... I have been running 2 x ICD, and 3 Ven dreads a few games, also some tac termies with reduced dreads. I suggest having at least 2 10 man squads of tactical marines. I run all kinds of weapons on my dreads, Assault cannon, Las Cannon, Multi-melta but I always have a DCCW. Dreads are great at tarpitting squads, and if all you have is a couple of smalll troops, or even 20 marines, you want to tie up the bad guys as long as you can with a dread in close combat. THis also prevents saturation of heavy weapon fire at the dreads. I prefer ven dreads with TLLC and a heavy flamer. The 60 points for the WS and Venerable rule has saved my dreads from the lucky fist pen many times. WS 5 means you hit goons on 3+. Trust me, that alone is nearly worth the points. ICD are great up close but once they charge a tough 10 man squad, expect them to stay there because you only hit on 4s and after you are in combat the dread is only likely to kill on or two goons a turn. The Ven should kill 3 during the charge and 2 on following turns more reliably. Basicaly dreads and terminators go together like grots and squigs. They have the same speed, S8+ close combat, and are taken out with heavy weapons. Sorry for the rambling! MM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreatEscape_13 Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 Some thoughts: Ick to CMLs on the termies! AC all the way (heh). I like the mix of Ironclads, regulars, and venerables. I'd suggest a regular dread with a ccw and a decent all-around shooting weapon to protect your backfield units. Then a denied flank of 4 dreads (2 ICs and 2 Vens if you have the points) rumbling up along with the termies. That is one hell of a left (or right) hook. Use a couple light tricksy units on the refused flank (cheap scout squad w/ shotguns and sarge w/ melta boms and maybe a PW if you're feeling saucy) that can slow up enemy forces on that side. Even better, have them in a Storm for maximal flexibilty in slowing foes down. And put your Iron father on a bike so i he can roll along w/ the dreads, but have the maneuverability to repair as he goes. Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derrios Posted July 24, 2011 Author Share Posted July 24, 2011 A) I hate bikes. They look retarded and I will never use them. So the list is now 2 normal dreads AsC/DCCW , 2 IC DCCW/Ram, Redeemer, 2x10 tacs w/ rhinos, 10 tac termis, chap w/ dread armor, motf I ended up dropping a squad of scouts w/ sniper rifles and a dread in lieu of a redeemer and 2 rhinos for the tacticals. I feel like im derailing my own thread. Interested why you think AC on tac termis has more utility than CML. Is TW AsC on LR And 2 on dreads not enough? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreatEscape_13 Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 A) I hate bikes. They look retarded and I will never use them. Haha, fair enough. There is something unseemly about humanity's finest space warriors bouncing along an alien world on a glorified fat-tire moped that can turn one off. Interested why you think AC on tac termis has more utility than CML. Is TW AsC on LR And 2 on dreads not enough? Dunno for sure, I have always been underwhelmed by the cyclones I guess. In my mind, they make it too tempting to try and have the termi unit shoot at a vehicle--when the squad is far better equipped for pounding enemy infantry at range. The AC takes away that temptation, but it can still penetrate AV 14 if you simply must end up firing it at a vehicle. Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derrios Posted July 26, 2011 Author Share Posted July 26, 2011 yeah but it takes away 2 SB from those marines which are also anti infantry. I am not really utilizing them as anti tank. Ive got 2 IC and 2 Reg Dreads and a land raider that can handle such situations. Only thing I want to rework is perhaps freeing up enough points to put the IC in drop pods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McFisty Posted July 31, 2011 Share Posted July 31, 2011 I also love dreads and often use the MotF to bring up to five in one army list. I have never had much success with CC dreads for the simple reason that they are slow and my opponents never oblige me by feeding my dreads any of their units. Since the CC dreads are so slow, they rarely catch up to any worthy targets. Drop podding does not help because they may not assault the turn they arrive and my opponents move away beyond assault range, asap. I believe in shooty-noughts for the win! I love all long range shooting options for Dreadnoughts. This effectively counters their inherent deficiency of slow mobility. Since Dreads can move and still shoot all weapons, I usually take Riflemen and twin-linked lascannon with missile launcher shooty-noughts. The lascannon/missile launcher versions handle my enemies' heavy armor and the Riflemen handle the anti-infantry and light armor. Since I often have to take the MotF, I give him the conversion beamer to make him a useful stand alone unit. I never put the MotF on a bike since it never seems to pay off or prove useful. My other typical choices for Elites include Hammernators and Sternguard. Other Heavys choices might include one of the predator varieties. I normally take a classic Land Raider full of Hammernators to handle any Monstrous Creatures and/or death star units. I often take two more Riflemen Dreadnoughts and a Dakka or Combi-Predator. Two or three 10 man tactical marine squads round out my troops choices and I combine the Hammernators with an HQ like a Chaplain or Vulkan. I hope my two cents worth helps. For The Emperor, McFisty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spartan249 Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 This is quite literally right up my ally. You'll want to think about minimizing the cost on your dreads in order to maximize efficiency. Over the last 3 years of my playing a dreadnought heavy army, I've noticed a few things about Dreads. 1: Dreadnoughts put out the same quality of ranged damage no matter what kind of dread it is or how many upgrades you put on them. I.E. normal dread with only a TLLC upgrade vs a Venerable Dread with a TLLC, Heavy Flamer, and Extra Armor. Because of this fact, it's much better for your offensive output (and consequently your staying power) to go very light with upgrades and stuff as many dreadnoughts into the list as you can. 2: Dreadnoughts become much less useful when they specialize in a certain role. Dreadnoughts function best when they have multiple capabilities, as they are the workhorse of your army. This means that dreadnoughts like Ironclads and Melta Dreads are suboptimal choices because of their focus on a very weak aspect of the dreadnought (CC) and their focus on killing a single type of target (Armor). A dreadnought with an Assault Cannon is cheap and reasonably effective against just about any target. 3: Extra armor is NOT your friend with dreadnoughts. This may seem strange at first glance, but you realize this quickly when you start adding up your point totals. Extra Armor takes a lot of points away, points which could have been spent increasing your offensive capabilities. In a list like the dread heavy list, you need as much offensive capability as you can possibly get. This means reducing the amount of points spent on defensive upgrades like EA and using those points on more dreads/land speeders/razorbacks/whatever. While this makes your individual models weaker, it makes your army stronger, as you will have more models to neutralize to reduce your offensive capability. Get the most out of your dreads by reducing their cost and fielding more of them, then using your savings to bring even more firepower to back those dreads up. For example, I'd design a dread list like this. 1850 pts "Dread Madness" HQ MotF: Beamer - 120 pts Troops Tac Squad: 10 marines, Flamer, Lascannon, Psword - 195 pts Tac Squad: 10 marines, Flamer, Lascannon, Psword - 195 pts Elites Dreadnought: Assault Cannon - 115 pts Dreadnought: Assault Cannon - 115 pts Terminator Squad: 10 Terminators, 2 CML - 460 pts Heavy Support Dreadnought: Assault Cannon - 115 pts Dreadnought: Assault Cannon - 115 pts Dreadnought: 2x TLAC - 125 pts Fast Attack Land Speeder Squadron: 2x Mmelta - 140 pts Land Speeder Squadron: 2x Mmelta - 140 pts Take it or leave it, it's up to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laughingdagger Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 This is quite literally right up my ally. You'll want to think about minimizing the cost on your dreads in order to maximize efficiency. Over the last 3 years of my playing a dreadnought heavy army, I've noticed a few things about Dreads. 1: Dreadnoughts put out the same quality of ranged damage no matter what kind of dread it is or how many upgrades you put on them. I.E. normal dread with only a TLLC upgrade vs a Venerable Dread with a TLLC, Heavy Flamer, and Extra Armor. Because of this fact, it's much better for your offensive output (and consequently your staying power) to go very light with upgrades and stuff as many dreadnoughts into the list as you can. 2: Dreadnoughts become much less useful when they specialize in a certain role. Dreadnoughts function best when they have multiple capabilities, as they are the workhorse of your army. This means that dreadnoughts like Ironclads and Melta Dreads are suboptimal choices because of their focus on a very weak aspect of the dreadnought (CC) and their focus on killing a single type of target (Armor). A dreadnought with an Assault Cannon is cheap and reasonably effective against just about any target. 3: Extra armor is NOT your friend with dreadnoughts. This may seem strange at first glance, but you realize this quickly when you start adding up your point totals. Extra Armor takes a lot of points away, points which could have been spent increasing your offensive capabilities. In a list like the dread heavy list, you need as much offensive capability as you can possibly get. This means reducing the amount of points spent on defensive upgrades like EA and using those points on more dreads/land speeders/razorbacks/whatever. While this makes your individual models weaker, it makes your army stronger, as you will have more models to neutralize to reduce your offensive capability. Get the most out of your dreads by reducing their cost and fielding more of them, then using your savings to bring even more firepower to back those dreads up. For example, I'd design a dread list like this. 1850 pts "Dread Madness" HQ MotF: Beamer - 120 pts Troops Tac Squad: 10 marines, Flamer, Lascannon, Psword - 195 pts Tac Squad: 10 marines, Flamer, Lascannon, Psword - 195 pts Elites Dreadnought: Assault Cannon - 115 pts Dreadnought: Assault Cannon - 115 pts Terminator Squad: 10 Terminators, 2 CML - 460 pts Heavy Support Dreadnought: Assault Cannon - 115 pts Dreadnought: Assault Cannon - 115 pts Dreadnought: 2x TLAC - 125 pts Fast Attack Land Speeder Squadron: 2x Mmelta - 140 pts Land Speeder Squadron: 2x Mmelta - 140 pts Take it or leave it, it's up to you. This is ideal in my opinion. Combat squad the termies even to prioritize the two cml on AT and big baddies, or just run the whole squad up with the dreads. A buddy of mine used to run a similar list to this, but with vulkan and MOTF, and 3 out of 5 of his dreads were MM and DCCW with HF. It's certainly nasty, I'd love to hear how the list finishes and maybe a batrep or two. cheers, -Jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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