CKO Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 Can techmarines train techmarines? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234845-can-techmarines-train-techmarines/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chapter Master Ignis Domus Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 No, as per the compact with Mars, techmarines must be sent to Mars. Normal techmarines just don't have enough ability. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234845-can-techmarines-train-techmarines/#findComment-2827696 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olis Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 No, as per the compact with Mars, techmarines must be sent to Mars. Normal techmarines just don't have enough ability. Pretty much this - but I do wonder whether the Carcharadons manage to follow this (I presume they do) when they often galavant in the void beyond the galaxy (or the stars not part of the galaxy proper)... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234845-can-techmarines-train-techmarines/#findComment-2827727 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CKO Posted July 24, 2011 Author Share Posted July 24, 2011 I figure there is no getting around that, but can they teach others how to create weapons? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234845-can-techmarines-train-techmarines/#findComment-2827774 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reaver Ackler Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 They could, but most likely wouldn't unless its for the Chapter. If you mean teach a specific way to make a weapon or armour upgrade, then yes. They would have to know the basic cunstruction to repair most weapons, so unless it's something like a Mk 4 Stalker pattern bolter, or a Hexrifle they would already know it. -Done on the PS3 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234845-can-techmarines-train-techmarines/#findComment-2827785 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CKO Posted July 24, 2011 Author Share Posted July 24, 2011 Do they have to train at mars? Can they train at another Forge world? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234845-can-techmarines-train-techmarines/#findComment-2827811 Share on other sites More sharing options...
soddinnutter Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 They could train replacements to an extent but it becomes a game of Chinese Whispers over the years and eventuelly you are either going to have to send them to the nearest forge world or Mechanicus Enclave or, if you are in the middle of a protracted campaign on the periphery of the galaxy they may send a magos to visit. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234845-can-techmarines-train-techmarines/#findComment-2827870 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dswanick Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 Here are excerpts from the Space Wolf Iron Priest fluff : IRON PRIESTSAmongst the natives of Fenris, each tribe's smiths will worship the Gods of Iron, legendary figures said to reside within the volcanic islands adrift in the Boiling Sea. Three things are known of these gods A particularly gifted young Fenrisian smith may make a lonely pilgrimage to the smoke-shrouded Isles of Iron, determined to see Ihese gods with his own eyes. Those with the wit and strength to complete the arduous journey do indeed meet with living gods, for this is the guise the Iron Priests maintain when dealing with mortal men. Each pilgrim is put to work in the lava forges, his skin and sweat sizzling as he labours to create the finest of swords within the mouth of the volcano. This is known as the Test of the Iron Gauntlet. Should his work still be of masterful standard, and should he manage to pass the arduous tests laid before him. then he may be taken on as an apprentice and initiated Into the Space Wolves. Later he will journey to Mars, the Red Planet, where he will learn the ways of the machine under the tutelage of the arcane and insular Adeptus Mechanicus. It indicates to me that after being found worthy of testing, candidates are put to work crafting weapons to prove their ability. Since these candidates come from a primitive tech base, they must be at least guided in how to manufacture a specific SM-tech weapon (ie chainsword, chainaxe, maybe even a power weapon) but after this initial testing they are shipped off to Mars for real training. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234845-can-techmarines-train-techmarines/#findComment-2827939 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chapter Master Ignis Domus Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 But those are Space Wolves, so they have a very different organization, where recruiting for the Iron Priests is totally separate from normal recruiting. I wouldn't use them as a basis for most chapters. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234845-can-techmarines-train-techmarines/#findComment-2828145 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkangilos Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 I am sure that, theoretically, techs could train techs. It would just be breaking the pact made with the Mechanicus. Also, their training, IMO, would be a lot more limited because they don't have the high powered Windows 7 machines that the Mechanicus has. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234845-can-techmarines-train-techmarines/#findComment-2828163 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CKO Posted July 24, 2011 Author Share Posted July 24, 2011 Thanks alot guys as usually excellent input! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234845-can-techmarines-train-techmarines/#findComment-2828498 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arikel Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 From what I understand they go to Mars to complete their training and receive the blessing of the Machine God and full initiation as a priest of the Machine Cult, but almost certainly their recruitment and initial training would be done by the Techmarines of the chapter, who would select them from the battle brothers and scouts as librarians and chaplains also select marines that fit the requirements of their special orders. I'd imagine they would also receive further special training in the chapter's own special secrets from senior techmarines upon their return. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234845-can-techmarines-train-techmarines/#findComment-2828550 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dinks Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 From what I understand they go to Mars to complete their training and receive the blessing of the Machine God and full initiation as a priest of the Machine Cult, but almost certainly their recruitment and initial training would be done by the Techmarines of the chapter, who would select them from the battle brothers and scouts as librarians and chaplains also select marines that fit the requirements of their special orders. I'd imagine they would also receive further special training in the chapter's own special secrets from senior techmarines upon their return. This. Definately this. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234845-can-techmarines-train-techmarines/#findComment-2828570 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dizzy-xc Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 Yes. Techmarines can train other techmarines. However, a techmarine cannot another techmarine make. This requires years of study from the Machine Cult on Mars under the tutelage of the Adeptus Mechanicus. Space wolves have been discussed, here are some facts about the Dark Angels. They NEVER allow techmarines to be initiated into the inner circle. They are so changed from their experiences on Mars that they are never to be trusted fully again. They view the techmarines as brothers but keep them at a distance. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234845-can-techmarines-train-techmarines/#findComment-2828620 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lysimachus Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 I should preface this that what follows is pure personal opinion/supposition: While the fluff does state that a Tech in training must travel to Mars, I've always chosen to view it that 'Mars' could be any Forge World, logically one close to a Chapter's home world. I've justified it to myself because: a ) Tech Priests in general are sometimes referred to as the 'Adepts of Mars', but there are likely hundreds of thousands of them who have never set foot on the red planet, sometimes Mars just = Mechanicus. and b ) it just makes more sense than sending hundreds (if not thousands) of apprentices every year, potentially travelling for months/years from across the breadth of the Imperium. Why do that when there's a perfectly good Forge World just around the corner, galactically speaking? As I said, this is just how I choose to interpret this area of the fluff, not canon by any means. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234845-can-techmarines-train-techmarines/#findComment-2828716 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Espada Azul Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 Canonically, all Chapters supposedly send Techmarines-to-be to Mars for indoctrination and training, even supposedly mysterious Chapters like the Carcharodons. Personally though for a Chapter stationed on the fringes of the galaxy (the Death Spectres come to mind, ditto on the Nameless) I think the idea of sending a Techmarine candidate to Mars itself is not only fraught with danger (a LOT of things can happen during warp transit) but time-consuming as well (without interruptions, it might take months to years transit-time). A more practical method would be to select the nearest forge world and have the Techmarine trained there, but as another member mentioned one can only do this for so long before a drift in Chapter maintenance practices occurs. As for Techmarines training other techmarines... We have 'apprenta' listed in some of the older Codecii under the Armory, so one has to assume that the Chapter's techmarines begin the instruction process on the mysteries of the Mechanicus, but will have to send the nascent Techmarine to Mars to finish/formalize his training. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234845-can-techmarines-train-techmarines/#findComment-2828914 Share on other sites More sharing options...
soddinnutter Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 Maybe some of the more prominent shrines on the fo9rge worlds are spiritually, Mars. They send them to 'Mars' but Mars is only a term by the 41at millennium for sacred ground belonging to the Mechanicum. 'Mars' can be on a hundred worlds at once. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234845-can-techmarines-train-techmarines/#findComment-2828965 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecritter Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 Can they teach other techmarines ... yes. Will they teach other techmarines ... no! You have to remember that this as much religion as it is technology. It involves techpriests and machine gods, its not something you can just learn from the corner store. Well ... actually it is, but that's not what they're taught. Techmarines know not what highly guarded secrets allow them to function. Even though there is no real secret, a techmarine's belief in those secrets does exist. Do you understand my rambling? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234845-can-techmarines-train-techmarines/#findComment-2828968 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dinks Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 Repeat quote. From what I understand they go to Mars to complete their training and receive the blessing of the Machine God and full initiation as a priest of the Machine Cult, but almost certainly their recruitment and initial training would be done by the Techmarines of the chapter, who would select them from the battle brothers and scouts as librarians and chaplains also select marines that fit the requirements of their special orders. I'd imagine they would also receive further special training in the chapter's own special secrets from senior techmarines upon their return. This is the most complete and accurate reply. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234845-can-techmarines-train-techmarines/#findComment-2829077 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dizzy-xc Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 Can they teach other techmarines ... yes. Will they teach other techmarines ... no! You have to remember that this as much religion as it is technology. It involves techpriests and machine gods, its not something you can just learn from the corner store. Well ... actually it is, but that's not what they're taught. Techmarines know not what highly guarded secrets allow them to function. Even though there is no real secret, a techmarine's belief in those secrets does exist. Do you understand my rambling? Earth shot skyward and languidly hung above the cratered landscape as the vibration of the explosion rocked the Rhino. The 1/3rd standard gravity had seen several traitors rocked into orbit around this small moon by the chapter's Whilrwind barrages. No doubt had this techmarine not been weighed down by his servo harness and had hold of the third inscription lever under the exposed Rhino's engine manifold he too would be floating up into orbit from the massive counter artillery blast. These traitors were impossibly well dug in and quite determined it seemed to fight this one out to the bitter end. "Brother Vallius?" The comms were full of static even on the techmarine channels. "Come in Vallius. This is Techmarine Zijico. Your transmission broke up. I say again, respond brother. I am boosting directed transmission amplification to your position." The huge space marine battle barge slipped through red nebulous space above the ruined pock marked surface of Trukio Indigo like a giant shark circling its prey in a pool of blood. The Ghoul Star battle barge, high above the moon far below, saw the Carcharodons Space Marine Chapter valiantly fighting against well prepared traitors with the carnage on both sides running high. Despite horrendous bombardment from the Ghoul Star with which no structure still stood upon the surface of the moon, to the traitor's credit their will had yet to be broken and were putting up an impressive defense of this ruined rock. But why? "Brother Zijico? I hear you! The signal boost is working. The enemy is jamming us. I detect interferring carrier waves on multiple sub-frequencies." Three flashes of light scored the hull of the Rhino just above the right shoulder paldron of brother Vallius. The enemy was taking opportunity shots at him! Quickly turning his helmet in the direction of the attack, brother Vallius hurriedly switched comm channels. "Squad Omega, enemy marksmen firing at my position. Requesting cover fire. Enemy location..." The transmission was interrupted, "Omega Squad, strike the last. Brother Vallius, Whirlwind 03 responding. I saw that attack. Keep turning the wrench, brother, I’ve got your cover fire." The sky, a hellish red from the nebula, lit up in showers of golden white fire as the Whirlwind Tank's missile barrage rained lethal death on the enemy position. Switching back to the comm channel with the Ghoul Star circling above, Vallius explained his problem to the senoir techmarine. "I have recited the manifold incantation three times, brother Zijico, and pulled the third inscription lever TWICE while rotating the timing ignition counter clockwise upon each utterance. Still the spirit of this machine fights me! I am out of ideas. If this Rhino's tracks do not tread their way to sector three, you know what will happen here. What are your thoughts?" Time seemed to stand still as earth, debris, and bodies transfixed the airless void around brother Vallius. He waited for Brother Zijico's response, knowing not to rush his thoughts, no, his prayers to the Machine God for the answer. They would come. Zijico would teach him the proper enticements for the Machine. He would be illuminated. These meditations took time, they took, ...heresy! Vallius was so suddenly struck by the sight before him his senses could have mistaken it for a power sword thrust through his chest. He fought a moment for breath that seemed old and stale even from inside his rebreather. On a hundred battlefields had he fought and maintained the Carcharodons war engines faithfully adhering to both stringent traditions of his chapter and to that of the Machine Cult of Mars, yet never had a vision of this magnitude pierced him as such. Suspended all around him in the vaccum of the void was the answer. In the splendid chaos of battle, the floating managerie of particles mixing with the reddish heavens, time ceased. The nearby burst of artillery shell froze. A brass traitor casing that had been falling from atop the damaged Rhino stood still to betray its manufacture and Vallius clearly read the brass imprinting encircling the primer. And through this and all that was the answer that had elluded him. Each piece of debris appeared to contain a facet of the Machine Spirit that sparkled as diamond stars in the twilight of the airless vaccum. Each piece piercing his mind with the illuminating light of knowledge. He had not thought it possible. How can there exist an answer in this deluge of suspended chaos? There must be sequence. There must be order. There must be pattern. Was this a vision from the Machine God? "YES." An unnatural voice boomed outside his artificer armored suit. Impossible, Vallius reasoned. There is vacuum. There is no sound, yet his ears betrayed him again. "Incant the beginnings of the timing protcol while stirring the override manual start automaton." His helmet audio had not voxed. How could this be? Where was this sound coming from? Who was this sound. "Then chant the litanies of manifold override while pulling the charging lever down and tap the start protocol. Do this and the Machine will have life again. Do this and you will be illuminated..." Vallius paused for a moment. As time stood still he could have spent an eternity debating the wisdom of following this advice. In the short end of what must have been him nearing unconciousness from having held his breath for all the minutes of these ponderings, his hands began moving upon the spirit of the machine, his tounge uttering litanies unspoken for millenia. Where this all came from, Vallius did not know, but what he did feel was that it was working. Feeling soon became a disjointed metaphor of unbridaled awarness and knowledge that washed over his conciousness like a wave of salt water on an open wound. Vallius screamed. The malfunctioning Rhino's red blinking diagnostic lights all went green, the machine lurched as the repaired engine was revved from within. Once briefly frozen, time seemed to become a whirlwind of thought and sight and sound all twisted upon the taut fabric of the other and then suddenly, ripped apart. Vallius fell to his knees, winded, exhausted, shaking. "Vallius, Brother Zijico here on the Ghoul Star. I ran through the repair archives and discovered another bypass we can try to stir the machine. It is old and outdated, yet so is that machine's spirit. Are you ready, Vallius? I will illuminate you through this, brother. Vallius? Come in Vallius..." "Brother Zijico," Vallius responded as he struggled to his feet. He seemed heavy. Gravity seemed stronger. Blood coagulated around his nostrils and along his earlobes. He turned to view the battle. "The machine has been stirred already. I have repaired it. I have already been Illuminated." The engineer crew aboard the Ghoul Star gave Senior Techmarine Zijico a nervous glance upon hearing Techmarine Vallius not because of his words, but the way they were spoken. "What do you mean you have been illuminated? How did you fix the machine? Explain yourself techmarine,” Zijico demanded. “I know things now. All things. They have been revealed to me. There are no more mysteries. No more unknowns. Prayers, incantation and superstition will no longer be necessary. You do not need to illuminate me anymore, Zijico, for it is I who will illuminate you. The mysteries of the Machine Spirit have been laid bare.” A chill ran along Zijico’s spine. Never had he heard his brother techmarine speak in this fashion. Before he could respond, the transmission channel voxed a loud beep and the ship’s machine spirit spoke. “Comms override Alpha Tango 7294. Authorization Brother Drego, Carcharadons, Master of the Forge. Communication to the surface has been terminated.” “Brother Zijico, Drego here. I have been monitoring your communications from the bridge. Your faithfulness to the Machine Cult is exemplary. You are a beacon of light to the Omnisiah. You will be honored. Listen but closely brother for time is short. Mind wipe all servitors and personel at your station.” The doors to that engineering control node suddenly burst open and two towering Carcharodons in space marine armor strode into the room and leveled their bolt guns at the surprised servitors and crew of techmarine Zijico. “Carry this out without delay. Your brothers there will assist you. When your task is complete, meet me on the bridge. Drego out.” Drego turned and strode to the fire control station of the bridge. “Firing officer, target last known position of techmarine Vallius. Arm Cyclonic Torpedoes. Fire.” The Chapter Master of the Carcharodons walked up alongside the Master of the Forge and together they gazed below in solemn silence at Trukio Indigo through the cathedral reinforced viewport of the Ghoul Star’s bridge. It was a mesmerizing sight to behold, the devastation, the destruction, the carnal beauty of it all as they swam serenely in a blood red sea a short distance away. "The Gaston Nebula will no longer be a safe haven for disaffected Imperial servants. Wiping out every living thing upon this airless rock would see to that." “Things are not so simple now. The machinations of Chaos are many.” Drego spoke under his breath in hushed tones not even the enhanced hearing of a space marine could percieve from across the room. They both watched as the Cyclonic Torpedo impacted the rock. Deep fissures and cracks appeared along the surface of the moon. Interior gasses vented man and machine alike up into the Gaston Nebula. “We still have our brothers down there.” “And what am I to do about that?" The chapter master snapped. "Their mission stands. They will reach sector three. They will descend into the depths and slay the witch. Then we will tend to our wounds.” “And by that you mean I will then be allowed to recover the artifact?” “Yes Drego, your precious artifact.” The Master of the Carcharodons turned to face his Master of the Forge. “Do not try to appeal to me of my dislike of this mission by your misplaced concern for our brothers. You, me and they most of all know the risks. I don’t like it anymore than any of them fighting and dying on that blasted rock. Let's be clear," Drego stated as he too lowered his voice to nearly imperceptable levels turning to face Drego. "I am not fond of being the Adeptus Mechanicus' errand boy. Nothing would please me more than turning that rock into Gaston Nebula's new asteroid belt. But when you do get that artifact, Drego, pray yours was worth it while remembering the lives of the fallen and how they were spent.” The chapter master spun on that last word and walked away to leave Drego in thought. And think he did. Of Vallius. Of the witch. Of the artifact. Of Knowledge… -------------------------------------------- So you see, a techmarine can train another techmarine... ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234845-can-techmarines-train-techmarines/#findComment-2829166 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Octavulg Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 I've always taken the view that Techmarines almost certainly could train other Techmarines (especially with some guidance from other sources). Considering the innovations Techmarines often permit, I'd suspect they're actually more likely to be good teachers - they seem to think about what they're doing. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234845-can-techmarines-train-techmarines/#findComment-2829178 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olis Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 Nice little yarn spun there, dizzy. It was an entertaining read. ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234845-can-techmarines-train-techmarines/#findComment-2829206 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dizzy-xc Posted July 26, 2011 Share Posted July 26, 2011 Nice little yarn spun there, dizzy. It was an entertaining read. :eek Thanks. It takes so little to inspire me. Just a bit of differing opinions. I'm always spoiling for a fight. I bet you are the only person that reads it in this tiny subforum... hehe. Glad you liked it. Who knows, I might take my mini stories and string them together into a novel someday. I wrote one about the rule only one squad per transport too. hehe. That was a fun thread. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234845-can-techmarines-train-techmarines/#findComment-2829573 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olis Posted July 26, 2011 Share Posted July 26, 2011 Whatever inspires you, is just the spark. The bonfire that is your imagination must already be there, awaiting the spark. Once ablaze all you can do is feed the fire. :D Wow. That was philosophical. I must be in one of my 'zen' moods... I like to write a little whenever the winds of inspiration blow my way - I've got a flashdrive specifically for my scribbles. :) Edit: Typo. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234845-can-techmarines-train-techmarines/#findComment-2829580 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecritter Posted July 26, 2011 Share Posted July 26, 2011 A very nice story, yet I don't feel it answers the question posed. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234845-can-techmarines-train-techmarines/#findComment-2829637 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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