BLACK BLΠFLY Posted July 26, 2011 Share Posted July 26, 2011 Join an IC to the squad so he can cast HH. :P Back in the old 3rd edition CSM codex Thousand Sons auto passed their psychic tests. G :cuss Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234851-the-brotherhood-banner/page/2/#findComment-2829869 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted July 26, 2011 Share Posted July 26, 2011 The Banner says you automatically pass the psychic test...it doesn't say you automatically take it. :cuss Still your choice to make, as has been said. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234851-the-brotherhood-banner/page/2/#findComment-2829881 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hinti Posted July 26, 2011 Share Posted July 26, 2011 What?? There is NO choice! BH-Banner in squad: NFW allways "hot"!!! RAW!! Maybe it's me......... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234851-the-brotherhood-banner/page/2/#findComment-2829921 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morollan Posted July 26, 2011 Share Posted July 26, 2011 What??There is NO choice! BH-Banner in squad: NFW allways "hot"!!! RAW!! Maybe it's me......... Not RAW. Not even RAI (unless that means Rules As Imagined in this case). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234851-the-brotherhood-banner/page/2/#findComment-2829928 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted July 26, 2011 Share Posted July 26, 2011 What??There is NO choice! BH-Banner in squad: NFW allways "hot"!!! RAW!! Maybe it's me......... Not RAW. Not even RAI (unless that means Rules As Imagined in this case). "Rules as Imagined." I lol'd. Nothing in the Banner rule mandates that it must be activated every phase. Not even sure where you got that idea. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234851-the-brotherhood-banner/page/2/#findComment-2829990 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hinti Posted July 26, 2011 Share Posted July 26, 2011 Oh come on........... Did the BH-Banner Codex entry says:........ "you can chose to aktivate the NFW's, or not to aktivate them"...........?? NO IT DOESN'T!!!!!!!!! (Calgar can do this, as written in the SM-Codex, we can't) Therefore, the NFW's are allways "hot"....... We buy this ability with the Banner costs!! Therefore: NFW's are hot, allways, NO Test have to be done, you CAN NOT choose (youre not the SmurfBoss), and gain +1A for the squad (including attached IC's) My Opinion is still, that an Psychic Hood (and others) won't work against the Banner........ Also it IS Ridiculus that "using" (it's automatic) the Banner prevents the unit itself (without IC') from using Hammerhand, think about it, it's kinda a shot in the knee...... Gramatics are horrible i know, my english is not as good as ist should be.........and NO that's not the Problem ;) @Rules as Imagined: B) :P :lol: :) :D made my day....!!! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234851-the-brotherhood-banner/page/2/#findComment-2830098 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted July 26, 2011 Share Posted July 26, 2011 Given (by your own assertion) that English is not the problem, I will do my best to address your confusion. <3 Oh come on...........Did the BH-Banner Codex entry says:........ "you can chose to aktivate the NFW's, or not to aktivate them"...........?? No. It does not say this. It says they "automatically pass the test". It does not say they "automatically take the test"; just that they can automatically pass it. Calgar's ability isn't really analogous; he allows his infantry units to choose whether to pass or fail a morale test. Morale tests are compulsory per the core rules; i.e. you don't get to choose whether or not to take them. Nemesis Force Weapons are not compulsory; see the Nemesis Force Weapon entry in the core rules, on the Psykers page. It's a power they have and that they may choose to use. They do not have to. They can just as well choose to cast Hammerhand or even to forgo the use of powers entirely for a given turn, should they wish it. My Opinion is still, that an Psychic Hood (and others) won't work against the Banner........ You are demonstrably mistaken. A test is made and automatically passed; nothing about that bars the cancelling of the power. Psychic Hoods work just fine, as it has nothing to do with the test itself. It is a subsequent test - a roll-off - where each player rolls a d6 and adds the respective psyker Ld values. It's a different thing entirely and not addressed at all by the Banner rule. Also it IS Ridiculus that "using" (it's automatic) the Banner prevents the unit itself (without IC') from using Hammerhand A Paladin squad is a Mastery Level 1 Psyker, per the Brotherhood of Psykers rule. They are allowed to use one Psychic test per turn. If they choose to activate their Force Weapons (a test which they need not roll as they automatically pass it, per the Banner) then that is the single power they use for the turn. They cannot then use Hammerhand, as it is a second power. An attached IC can use Hammerhand and that will pass on to the unit, of course. I'm not sure what about all of this is not clear? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234851-the-brotherhood-banner/page/2/#findComment-2830123 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Valerius Posted July 26, 2011 Share Posted July 26, 2011 Oh come on...........Did the BH-Banner Codex entry says:........ "you can chose to aktivate the NFW's, or not to aktivate them"...........?? NO IT DOESN'T!!!!!!!!! (Calgar can do this, as written in the SM-Codex, we can't) Therefore, the NFW's are allways "hot"....... We buy this ability with the Banner costs!! Therefore: NFW's are hot, allways, NO Test have to be done, you CAN NOT choose (youre not the SmurfBoss), and gain +1A for the squad (including attached IC's) My Opinion is still, that an Psychic Hood (and others) won't work against the Banner........ Also it IS Ridiculus that "using" (it's automatic) the Banner prevents the unit itself (without IC') from using Hammerhand, think about it, it's kinda a shot in the knee...... Gramatics are horrible i know, my english is not as good as ist should be.........and NO that's not the Problem ;) @Rules as Imagined: B) :P :lol: :) :D made my day....!!! You are wrong on EVERY count. The Brotherhood Banner simply says that you automatically pass the test to activate the NFW. That's all it says, everything else you have said is a layer of meaning which you are heaping onto it (not something the rules themselves say). You are not required to take the test to activate NFW normally, and nothing in the BB rule changes that. You can be stopped by a psychic hood after passing the psychic test to activate NFW normally, and nothing in the BB rule changes that. To do what you suggest, the BB would need to state something along the lines of "The unit's Nemesis Force Weapons are always active". That's not what it says, though. You need to read the rules a lot more closely than you are, because you're coming up with wild and completely unsubstantiated ideas of how the rules work. Sorry, I probably sound a bit harsh. But I don't know how else to put it except bluntly, at this point. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234851-the-brotherhood-banner/page/2/#findComment-2830124 Share on other sites More sharing options...
neonfunk Posted July 27, 2011 Author Share Posted July 27, 2011 Well, thank you all for the replies, much clarity has been endowed (upon myself at least)... To Thade: Nothing in the Banner rule mandates that it must be activated every phase. Not even sure where you got that idea. As per the codex: "... the unit WILL automatically pass its psychic test to activate its force weapons" That bolded and underlined word above ^ is what gave rise to the notion that it is not a choice that you can forego. The ambiguity is further compounded by other rules in the game that explicitly state something along the lines of ".... the unit may ________ (insert random ability) if they choose to...." etc.... Sorry that I can't come up with a specific one, but get the jist? Basically, if the banner rule entry was ".... the unit will automatically pass its psychic test to activate its force weapons, if they choose to do so..." etc... Then there will be no ambiguity pertaining to what you suggested (that you are not sure where I/we "got that idea" of mandatory FW activation). Many thanks, Neonfunk N.B. On the topic of negation due to psychic hood, i still maintain that RAW = can be negated. RAI = surely not.... surely... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234851-the-brotherhood-banner/page/2/#findComment-2830642 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 Heh, "Rules as Imagined". Sure, they will pass it...should they choose to take it. ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234851-the-brotherhood-banner/page/2/#findComment-2830666 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hinti Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 @Thade: After reading, thinking about, reading again and thinking about it again i've to AGREE to your Opinion...... therefore: You were right, I was wrong.......surley. Thanks for enlighting me... Just to do it right in the future: 5 Pallies w Banner. I decide to make the NFW's hot.......i can't use Hammerhand (wich is in fact useless wenn the NFW's are hot, as they inflict ID) If i decide to use Hammerhand, i can't use the Banner's ability to aktivate the NFW's. This ist restrictet to the CC-Phase...... What happen when i use Inferno in the shooting Phase? No Hammerhand and no NFW aktivation? Right? For that i LOVE Diskussion Forums! Hinti Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234851-the-brotherhood-banner/page/2/#findComment-2830800 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitefireinferno Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 You are correct you get one power it does not matter which one you use you get a singular power. UNLESS you are taking Thawn in a standard GKT unit at which point you get to use 2 apparently. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234851-the-brotherhood-banner/page/2/#findComment-2830851 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 Thanks for enlighting me... Hey, Brother. I'm here to help. <3 Speaking of which... 5 Pallies w Banner. I decide to make the NFW's hot.......i can't use Hammerhand (wich is in fact useless wenn the NFW's are hot, as they inflict ID) Not useless at all. Str 4 wounds MEQ on 4s, Str 5 wounds MEQ on 3s. You want to ID them...so you have to wound them first. If i decide to use Hammerhand, i can't use the Banner's ability to aktivate the NFW's.This ist restrictet to the CC-Phase...... What happen when i use Inferno in the shooting Phase? No Hammerhand and no NFW aktivation? Right? Right. One power per turn means one power per turn. (Player turn, in this case, per recent FAQs and the BRB.) If they use the template power in the shooting phase, no powers may be used in their subsequent assault phase. Not that bad, right? If you do charge you'll still get a mess of power weapon attacks (courtesy of the banner and the fact they're freakin Paladins) and if it goes into a round two..you can use force weapons. :D It occurs to me that anything I'd want to prioritize use of the template power over saving up for hammerhand/force weapon would be something that I wouldn't need to ID (i.e. a lot of one-wound, mid to low toughness troops). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234851-the-brotherhood-banner/page/2/#findComment-2830945 Share on other sites More sharing options...
nurglez Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 indeed, if for example, you are charging a large squad of gaunts and have an IC attached, use holocaust, and get the IC to cast hammer hand, and then destroy the gaunts :( Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234851-the-brotherhood-banner/page/2/#findComment-2830957 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 indeed, if for example, you are charging a large squad of gaunts and have an IC attached, use holocaust, and get the IC to cast hammer hand, and then destroy the gaunts :( It's more often that I commit my unit's melee attacks to the enemy grunts than their attached enemy IC; especially if the unit is Fearless. The sheer number of No Retreat! wounds you force on the foolish IC will ruin his day. EDIT: Clarification Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234851-the-brotherhood-banner/page/2/#findComment-2830964 Share on other sites More sharing options...
nurglez Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 I meant, if you have a IC attached to your paladins. :( Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234851-the-brotherhood-banner/page/2/#findComment-2830975 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 Btw, has anyone found Holocaust useful? I'm usually busy poking enemy assault units/monsters/heroes to death with Pallies, so I never usually face hordes of worse infantry. Just wondering if it is worth giving up ID capability (I always attach Grandmaster/Librarian anyway, Paladins need all the help they can get...2 attacks each base, grumble grumble). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234851-the-brotherhood-banner/page/2/#findComment-2832636 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crynn Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 Just a quick one. You cast hammerhand before you use 'automatically' pass the test to activate force weapons. so if you've cast hammerhands you've missed you can't activate your force weapons and if you are about to decided weather to activate your force weapons you have already missed your chance to cast hammerhands. Regards, Crynn @Thade. You have much patience my friend. well done. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234851-the-brotherhood-banner/page/2/#findComment-2832655 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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