Tactical Squad Heavy Weapon

[Aegnor]

Ok, this is a pretty basic question, but I've finally got myself organized enough to venture beyond the "missile launcher from the starter pack(s)" as the heavy weapon default in my vanilla tactical squads, and have been toying with some of the other options.

 

I run two or three squads depending on game size. I've tried a multimelta, which I quite like, especially given I often use Vulkan. The lascannon seems too expensive for what it gives you over a missile launcher. I was pretty keen to try the plasma cannon vs MEQ, but my initial experiences were quite underwhelming - bad scatter didn't help I guess, but scatter plus chance of overheat, seems worse than a missile launcher, unless you get a lucky shot with the blast and take out a few, but that's relying on your opponent making a mistake.

 

Heavy bolters are next I guess.

 

I'm leaning back towards using 1 multimelta + X number missile launchers to be honest - am I missing something?

[rpnightsend]

personally, I always go with missile launchers. I'm a pretty aggressive player, so sometimes I drop the heavy weapon altogether because I won't use it. I definitely agree with you on plasma cannons, and lascannons have only been useful to me wen I take at least 3 tactical squads with them.

[PorridgeMeister]

I prefer to use heavy bolters for my Tactical Squads. Save the longer-range lascannon and missile launchers for Devastators as they won't be moving much - I have two Devastator Squads: one with 4 missile launchers (super-flexible) and the other with 2 lascannons and 2 plasma cannons (heavy duty/tank-hunters) . I have to admit however, that I haven't actually run the plasma cannons on them yet.

 

Also, I tend to match the Sternguard Vets' bolters with multi-meltas as I like to take advantage of Hellfire ammo so that everyone in the squad can wound on 2+ virtually the whole time. To negate the short-range, I would drop-pod them into the enemy lines to provide my other deep-strikers with close support.

[Olis]

I have three go to weapons, in regards to a heavy weapons loadout - Lascannons, Missile Launchers and Heavy Bolters. Other heavy weapons do get chosen but these three are my holdfast picks. The Heavy Bolter features more if I face a horde army and the Lascannon is the guest star if I go against a vehicle/monstrous creature heavy list. The only advantage taking Lascannons over Missile Launchers is when I face AP14 vehicles - if I am not facing those I'll tend to downgrade my heavies to Missile Launchers for the flexibility and cost.

[Khorne Worny]

I personally use the Heavy Bolter as my tactical squads with flamers as specials are made IMO for going againt infantry. Plus my Missile Launchers all 4 of them make up one off my 3 dev squads. If I had spare Missile Launchers I would proberly replace the Heavy Bolters with the Missile Launchers. But im so used to the Heavy Bolters I doubt il change anytime soon.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

I go heavy on plasma in my Tac Squads. The way I see it, plasma cannons and missile launchers fairly similar in function: they are both able to kill massed infantry and light armor with relative ease. Missiles are better at the armor part, plasma is better at the infantry part. And since a plasma cannon in a Tac Squad is only 5 points. . . that's a friggin' steal. And I can get dedicated anti-tank firepower out of other parts of my army.

[Hialmar]

I generally use the standard Tactical Squad loadout. Missile Launcher, Meltagun and Sergeant with Power Fist and occasioanlly a Combi-melta.

 

I will take the Heavy Bolter rarely and same with a Lascannon. I would guess for Tacticals the heavy weapon is 90% Missile Launcher, 5% Heavy Bolter and 5% Lascannon.

 

My Devastator's squads on the other hand I run as follow: First Squad is always 4 Plasma-Cannons with Second Squad either 4 Lascannons or 4 Heavy Bolters depending on how I am feeling. Multi-maltas if taken are either on Speeders, Attack Bikes or with Sternguard.

[Rogue]

I pretty much only play against tyranids, so this might be very one-dimensional, but both my tactical squads run with lascannon paired with a plasma gun. Both weapons go into the same combat squad, meaning I have a mini-firebase capable of removing armour saves from everything, and wounding almost everything on a 2+ (or 3+ for the plasma versus T6) - in particular, they hunt the big stuff (leaving smaller T4 stuff to the bolters and so on).

 

The lascannon doesn't bring much more than the krak missile most of the time, but makes all the difference against 2+ saves.

[Koremu]

I find Multi-Melta to be excellent at discouraging Tank Shocks. I don't really rely on the Heavy Weapons much other than that.

[TyrionTheImp]

Missile Launcher or Multi-melta.

 

Both are free, both have S8. Multi-melta goes in rhinos, missiles usually stay back in a combat squad. Heavy Bolters aren't scary unless in number at all, while a vehicle can die from one hit, a squad of infantry probably isn't going to care too much for 2 extra heavy bolter shots, it'll either already be dead or heavy enough armor it wouldn't matter, and that's only if you didn't move. Rapid firing bolters is usually enough for infantry that would be scared by HBs.

 

Plasmas are great, but I don't use them. Not a huge fan of blast weapons, very hit or miss, but when they hit, they really hit.

 

Lascannons I find simply too expensive to not be firing every turn. MM's and ML's are free, and while the bonus strength comes in handy, it isn't AP1 and I lose the frag blast if I feel it would be useful.

[Captain Idaho]

I did a mighty reply on each of the heavy weapons available to Tactical Marines but it was lost as I posted it from my phone and the topic was moved!

 

Don't be put off paying points for heavy weapons in Tacticals!

 

Basically, what I said was Lascannons are an expensive commodity in Space Marine armies, therefore a cheap lascannon in a Tactical is a great boost. However, to get the most out of it you really need to put it into a dedicated objective camper or else you start to feel you've wasted your points.

 

The Plasma Cannon is the equaliser for Tactical Marines. They are vulnerable up close against other heavy infantry, therefore a Plasma Cannon can be the edge they need.

 

Tacticals are the force multiplier of Space Marines armies, rather than what the back ground material might suggest. They can add their heavy weapons to the fusilage of the rest of the army, or rush forward to flood objectives or rapid fire support the opponent's army before your assault force hits home. Planning your army and each unit's role means how you want Tacticals to behave also. Their heavy weapons choice is useful in this regard.

[Validar]

I think you should drop the idea of an ideal weapon loadout (as much for tacticals as any other unit in the game)

 

Important questions go along the lines of: What is your local meta? What is your playstyle? What does the rest of your army look like? What tactical actions does your tacticals perform? etc.

 

The best heavy weapons is entirely based on answering the questions above this.

The multi melta is great if you just need a scareoff for the tank shock - or intent to use your tactical squad by driving mid-field and stay there.

The missile launcher is good if you want to combat squad and keep your guys shooting light enemy tanks - the lascannon comes in handy if you've got others that can take care of the light ones in your list but still intent to combat squad (if you've got riflemen, for instance).

The plasma cannon is pure love if you've got loads of terminators and powerarmor folks to get rid of in your local meta or if you simply lack something to take out heavy infantry in your list.

The heavy bolter looks awesome. Really.

 

All the above may or may not apply to you in accordance with the first questions asked. I've tried to point out a few tricks and situations where a certain weapon may work, but nothing is final, and there is no ideal weapon for a tac squad.

[Aegnor]

Good responses guy, thanks. The local meta does seem pretty MEQ focussed. Probably this highlights that I'm yet to settle on a satisfactory preferred role for most of my tacticals - but that might be a question for another thread.

 

I guess I might persist a bit more with the plasma cannons and see how it goes.

[nurglephill]

I find it odd you have trouble with scattering on the heavy plasma...unless I have miss understood the rules. You role a D6 and take off the BS of the marine right? Oh wait...is it 2D6?

 

Anyway, I have a variety of options for my tact marines with regard weapon load outs and for me it all depends on what you need them to do in your list I think.

 

I plan on trying out the multi-melta plasma gun combo on a couple of midfield based rhino bound units as I really like the idea of scaring tanks off and funnelling them down a flank where my speeders will be lurking.

 

With most things I don't think there are right or wrong answers, just what you need a unit to do and the wargear to do it.

 

Good luck ;)

[DerekLee688]

The plasma cannon is really cheap, but it suffers from the vindi curse, you can't just run one. 2-3 is the min you need shoot at a target if you want to overcome the scatter dice with any reasonable certainty. Two tac. squads worth of Plasma cannons is only two. Perhaps if it was a tac squad or plasma dread providing cover to a devistator squad would be a good pair?

 

Tac/w PC + Devistator/w plasma cannon = gunline

Tac/w PC & Rhino + Dread/w PC = mobile fire support

[rusty1109]

As an aside I pretty much exclusively run my non rifleman dread with plasma cannons, they have on more than one occasion made deep striking heavy infantry squads disappear!

 

And no gets hot for the win!

[GreatEscape_13]

My standard mix when running 3 tactical squads is:

 

Flamer + Plasmacannon (rhino w/ melee-ish sgt, used as my objective grabbers)

Melta + Plasmacannon (used as my utility force--either protecting an objective, or combat squadded for dual roles)

Melta + Multimelta (dropping in via drop pod, combat squadded right away into a static shooting element, and a forward unit--usually w/ a combimelta and meltabomb sgt)

 

I find that gives me the flexibility that I need, with some varied firepower options and roles. I do definitely like the Plasma Cannons. Remember that on average the template will scatter 3 inches, which is still pretty decent for at least nabbing a couple of models in the target unit. Just something about searing hot plasma death blasts that warms this old Star Phantom's heart.

 

Cheers.

[Brother Valerius]

I find it odd you have trouble with scattering on the heavy plasma...unless I have miss understood the rules. You role a D6 and take off the BS of the marine right? Oh wait...is it 2D6?

 

Scatter is indeed 2d6, minus the BS of the firer.

[Aegnor]

My standard mix when running 3 tactical squads is:

 

Flamer + Plasmacannon (rhino w/ melee-ish sgt, used as my objective grabbers)

Melta + Plasmacannon (used as my utility force--either protecting an objective, or combat squadded for dual roles)

Melta + Multimelta (dropping in via drop pod, combat squadded right away into a static shooting element, and a forward unit--usually w/ a combimelta and meltabomb sgt)

 

I find that gives me the flexibility that I need, with some varied firepower options and roles. I do definitely like the Plasma Cannons. Remember that on average the template will scatter 3 inches, which is still pretty decent for at least nabbing a couple of models in the target unit. Just something about searing hot plasma death blasts that warms this old Star Phantom's heart.

 

Cheers.

 

Might try this - gotta get around to completing my drop pod - will try with two rhinos for now.

[DerekLee688]

My new loadouts.

 

Flamer/Combi-flamer/PC: Horde fighter and DS security. Unfortunately, you don't get to use both in the same turn.

 

PG/Combi-PG/Multi Melta: High S low AP spam. Free MM makes up for plasma cost.

[Deus de Mortalis]

For the heavy weapon, I really don't like heavy bolters since so much I face has a 3+ save or is armor. The multi-melta being heavy with only a 24" range and 12" good range, it doesn't fit well with my style of play either having the squad sit far back or keep it moving closer. The plasma cannon I have yet to really try, but its inability against vehicles I don't like. I usually stick with the missile launcher, or go with the lascannon if the points are available.

[DarkGuard]

In squad's that go forward I stick with the MM. Usually run alongside combi-flamer/flamer and combi-plasma/plasma gun, the lack of range means nothing as I'm moving it into range anyway via a Rhino. It gives some versatility and allows the squad to handle vehicles.

 

With squads sticking back either the lascannon or plasma cannon, depending on what needs to be covered. These are normally matched combi-plasma, plasma gun to gives me a long ranged squad capable of covering my army's advance, and thanks to a las plas Razorback allows the squad to combat squad if need be.