Word Bearers in the next codex

[Castiel]

Hi

 

I just read about the possibility of a new codex for chaos next year (And I pray it isn't a Matt Ward abomination!). It got me thinking, surely I can't be the only person who would like to see Erebus or another Word Bearers (Dark Apostle?) character in the next dex?

 

Any thoughts?

[KaosRaptor]

Ideally, in the next codex I think people would like to see a special character representing each of the main legions. In the Word Bearers' case it would certainly be a Dark Apostle of some nature.

I'm not sure whether they would use Erebus or not because as far as I'm aware, he's part of the ruling caste on Sicarus. That said, I don't know whether he leaves or not either :)

So short answer: I'd love to see one.

[Master Exorcist]

I would love to see characters for the nine legions. My guess would be Kor Phaeron for the Word Bearers, hopefully the 2nd warsmith for IW (the one who isnt dead or honsou), Zso sahaal would be an ideal choice for night lords, as well as kreig acerbus, but he is a daemon prince. Alpha legion well...yeah...

 

back on topic...i would love to see one and my bet is on kor phaeron.

 

ME

[Master Exorcist]

double post but i only clicked once.....why??!!!

[MaliGn]

I'd rather the undivided legions were led by "new" characters that typify the legions' leadership rather than such individual characters as kor phaeron or erebus, and frankly I'd rather the concept of a new kind of character, something like the "legion lord" wwith options that are more similar to the way that autarchs mirror certain aspect shrines rather than being speical characters in their own right, this way there are options.... gotta love options.

[Lord_Caerolion]

Zso Sahaal would be a terrible choice for the Night Lords. After all, he's a power-hungry Terran who abandoned his Legion when it needed him most so he could chase after a trinket, and has been missing for 10,000 years. He understands nothing of the Long War and the Bitter Crusade (my own term, I just like it for some reason), and what warband would want to have him back? He's a poor leader, not a "son of the sunless world", and has no force of his own. He represents the Night Lords as they were at the end of the Heresy, not after the 10,000 years of fighting and hatred the Legion has endured. He is nothing more than a relic of the past, and has no place in a current warband. Let him have his corona, we true sons of the Night Haunter have no need of him.

[Inquisitor Engel]

Zso Sahaal would be a terrible choice for the Night Lords. After all, he's a power-hungry Terran who abandoned his Legion when it needed him most so he could chase after a trinket, and has been missing for 10,000 years. He understands nothing of the Long War and the Bitter Crusade (my own term, I just like it for some reason), and what warband would want to have him back? He's a poor leader, not a "son of the sunless world", and has no force of his own. He represents the Night Lords as they were at the end of the Heresy, not after the 10,000 years of fighting and hatred the Legion has endured. He is nothing more than a relic of the past, and has no place in a current warband. Let him have his corona, we true sons of the Night Haunter have no need of him.

 

Also, it's pointed out in "Soul Hunter" that no one listened to him and he just disappeared. From the speech and way he acts in "Lord of the Night" you'd think he'd been First Captain from the beginning, but he'd really only been First Captain for not-very-long by the time Curze is dead, perhaps having seen no real action as such. (He may have been Talonmaster longer though)

 

Personally, as much as I'd like to see Talos as a character, I don't think he'd be a wise choice. A Night Lords character should be:

 

Non-Daemonic

Ambitious

Come with lightning claws and the OPTION for the jump pack.

 

As for Alpha Legion, their named character should TOTALLY be Alpharius but it should be entirely ambiguous who it really is. :D

[TheDarkApostle]

Ideally, in the next codex I think people would like to see a special character representing each of the main legions. In the Word Bearers' case it would certainly be a Dark Apostle of some nature.

I'm not sure whether they would use Erebus or not because as far as I'm aware, he's part of the ruling caste on Sicarus. That said, I don't know whether he leaves or not either :cuss

So short answer: I'd love to see one.

Erebus goes around alot on his own, total solo, in alot of short stories doing his down thing backstabbing people.

 

IIRC he is in a dreadnought in Dark apostle, so probably not him.

Nope, not him. That's the Warmonger.

 

I would love to see characters for the nine legions. My guess would be Kor Phaeron for the Word Bearers, hopefully the 2nd warsmith for IW (the one who isnt dead or honsou), Zso sahaal would be an ideal choice for night lords, as well as kreig acerbus, but he is a daemon prince. Alpha legion well...yeah...

 

back on topic...i would love to see one and my bet is on kor phaeron.

 

ME

Kor Phaeron would be a horrible choice for a character.

 

TDA

[Yogi]

@TDA ah ok, my mistake.

 

I would be well unimpressed if sahaal became a character.

[Lord_Caerolion]

Personally, I don't want the Night Lords character to have lightning claws either. There has never been a single mention of Night Lords (other than the Primarch) using lightning claws in the fluff, yet for some reason the internet seems to believe that Night Lord commanders use almost nothing else. I have absolutely no idea why this has come about, but it makes no sense whatsoever.

 

What I'd really, really like is to actually not have to rely on special characters to have my Legions. Have the characters, sure, but have an option to allow normal HQ choices to have the same, or at least similar effects. Chaos is about individuality, we shouldn't be forced into having the same character appear in every Iron Warriors army if they want to remember to be good at blowing stuff up.

[Castiel]

The Night Lords character should have a chain-glaive like Sevatar has in Savage Weapons (Age of Darkness). That'd be cool!

[Lexington]

For Word Bearers, I'd rather see Kol Badar or the Warmonger from Dark Apostle. I'm not a big fan of the series overall, but those two were pretty great.

[Unguis Raptus]

Personally, I don't want the Night Lords character to have lightning claws either. There has never been a single mention of Night Lords (other than the Primarch) using lightning claws in the fluff

 

Zso Sahaal?

 

Also isn't he captain of the 1st company, largely composed of Raptors.

 

Talos would be the best choice if we really had to have a unique character I'm sure his prophetic ability could be worked in some way along with Night Lords standard fear jazz - reduce enemy leadership in combat and allow additional unit movement or altered placement before battle.

 

...personally I wouldn't like it

[Ju'kosian]

Maybe A-D-B could write in a new great character for the night lords.

I agree on Zso Sahaal though, I like "Lord of the night" but it seems he's not even Nostroman, not the First captain from the start and he has been away for almost 10k years somewhere sleeping on his ship..

 

I would love to see the Special characters for the legions, be characters from during the Heresy ( would be easy to still incorporate them in the oncoming novels, )

Sol Talgron for the word bearers.. (altough he might be the warmonger)

The warsmith from "STorm of Iron" (Mcneill can still mention him in a heresy novel, should there be an iron warriros one in the future)

 

etc

[Unguis Raptus]

Maybe A-D-B could write in a new great character for the night lords.

 

Hahahaha that would just be beautiful...

 

Back on topic, I personally just don't think the Legions can have characters represent them for two main reasons firstly certain Legions just don't have characters that can really represent them such as the Night Lords, Word Bearers(?), Alpha Legion(?), Iron Warriors(?) it's mainly the Legions with a patron god which already have characters with background. Second. The best part, for me at least, of chaos is that your villain gets to be who and what you want them to be. With characters they are who they are and the forces under their command will be a shadow of them, and so lose their uniqueness.

 

That said I would like to see Legion specific rules, abilities and options that I can tailor to my force to provide it with unique strengths and weaknesses.

[MaliGn]

Back on topic, I personally just don't think the Legions can have characters represent them for two main reasons firstly certain Legions just don't have characters that can really represent them such as the Night Lords, Word Bearers(?), Alpha Legion(?), Iron Warriors(?) it's mainly the Legions with a patron god which already have characters with background. Second. The best part, for me at least, of chaos is that your villain gets to be who and what you want them to be. With characters they are who they are and the forces under their command will be a shadow of them, and so lose their uniqueness.

 

That said I would like to see Legion specific rules, abilities and options that I can tailor to my force to provide it with unique strengths and weaknesses.

 

I essentially agree, think about the 3.5 'dex, the solution there was that Word Bearers could take Dark Apostles and Iron Warriors could take Warsmiths, which opened up wargear options (crozius, servo-arm etc). unfortunately we'll likely end up with special characters that have to be taken as is (aside from name) giving the options the the army list, but very little personalisation of your general. In the way that now every salamanders army is led by vulkan, because he gives the salamanders their little quirks, which surely all salamanders army use wether he's there in person or not. so if we did ger say Argel Tal or Marduk in the Chaos book, then suddenly every Word Bearersarmy would suddenly feature the first chaplain/dark apostle of the 34th just in order to get the rules making them word bearers. which is kinda rubbish.

[Vilicate]

For Word Bearers, I'd rather see Kol Badar or the Warmonger from Dark Apostle. I'm not a big fan of the series overall, but those two were pretty great.

 

Those would both be great for a second character, or assuming that they'd get the option for a generic Dark Apostle.

 

Otherwise, if feel like a Dark Apostle character would be a gimme for a WB Special character.

[Lord_Caerolion]

Personally, I don't want the Night Lords character to have lightning claws either. There has never been a single mention of Night Lords (other than the Primarch) using lightning claws in the fluff

 

Zso Sahaal?

 

Also isn't he captain of the 1st company, largely composed of Raptors.

 

Recently promoted to First Captain, and no, the "largely composed of Raptors" thing is yet another internet invention to help further the "Night Lords are nothing but Raptors!" idea. He claims he was the first Raptor, but there's nothing more to it than that.

 

Talos would be the best choice if we really had to have a unique character I'm sure his prophetic ability could be worked in some way along with Night Lords standard fear jazz - reduce enemy leadership in combat and allow additional unit movement or altered placement before battle.

 

...personally I wouldn't like it

 

Talos, the guy who wants to be anything but in command, as our special character? Doesn't really work either. Why would Talos magically be appearing in Night Lord forces across the galaxy?

 

The other Chaos characters work because they're either the leader of a massive, massive army (Abaddon, Huron), or are exiles from their Legion and hire themselves out to the highest bidder (all the rest). If we make the characters Legion-specific, then we have to get rid of the gun-for-hire element, as it doesn't make sense that Khârn turning up to help your Iron Warriors fight makes all of them act like World Eaters, for example. They need to either be figures like Abaddon, who leads a large and diverse enough force that his presence can be explained in most forces, or a figure like Astoroth, who belongs to the sub-faction as a whole, travelling between them. Most Undivided Legions don't have either of those sorts of characters.

[darth_giles]

So am I the only one who wouldn't mind seeing all the special characters except maybe Abbadon pulled from the next codex, so we can focus on the leaders of our own warbands instead of some over-blown guy who's been around since the Heresy and done it all two or three times? I've grown really tired of Typhus this or Khârn that, or Lucius the other. Let's see our own fluff and characters, in a way they haven't been seen before.

[Inquisitor Engel]

Recently promoted to First Captain, and no, the "largely composed of Raptors" thing is yet another internet invention to help further the "Night Lords are nothing but Raptors!" idea. He claims he was the first Raptor, but there's nothing more to it than that.

 

Indeed. He's also likely full of it. (AD-B's stance on it is "Sure you did mate...")

 

I think it's also hinted that not all Chaos assault marines and Raptors and are not the same thing. In "Throne of Lies" First Claw uses jet packs to ambush the Callidus, but clearly aren't exclusive to them. That and Lucoryphus muses that he's a Raptor before all else (I think a Night Lord is third?)

 

Therefore, Sahaal, having been asleep for 10,000 years, cannot be a Raptor. :tu:

[Kristoff]

So am I the only one who wouldn't mind seeing all the special characters except maybe Abbadon pulled from the next codex, so we can focus on the leaders of our own warbands instead of some over-blown guy who's been around since the Heresy and done it all two or three times? I've grown really tired of Typhus this or Khârn that, or Lucius the other. Let's see our own fluff and characters, in a way they haven't been seen before.

 

I'm not totally with you on this.

 

Yes, I do believe that our HQ need to be able to be diverse and have a plethora of options, with the ability to create a truly personalized character.

 

BUT, I do not believe that the "Old Guard" needs to be kicked out on to the curb to do this.

 

As to whether the current codex SCs will/should be in the next codex, it largely depends on the direction they take. Some rumors have the current codex getting a WD update ala Blood Angels in 4th (and rumored Sisters the next two months), while a brand new codex is being written for Chaos Legions. As to who should be in which? *shrug* That's an argument for another thread, but I do feel that the 4 Chaos Legions who were effectively left out of the last Chaos Marine book, should get their chance to shine.

[TheDarkApostle]

Personally, I don't want the Night Lords character to have lightning claws either. There has never been a single mention of Night Lords (other than the Primarch) using lightning claws in the fluff

 

Zso Sahaal?

 

Also isn't he captain of the 1st company, largely composed of Raptors.

 

Recently promoted to First Captain, and no, the "largely composed of Raptors" thing is yet another internet invention to help further the "Night Lords are nothing but Raptors!" idea. He claims he was the first Raptor, but there's nothing more to it than that.

 

Talos would be the best choice if we really had to have a unique character I'm sure his prophetic ability could be worked in some way along with Night Lords standard fear jazz - reduce enemy leadership in combat and allow additional unit movement or altered placement before battle.

 

...personally I wouldn't like it

 

Talos, the guy who wants to be anything but in command, as our special character? Doesn't really work either. Why would Talos magically be appearing in Night Lord forces across the galaxy?

 

The other Chaos characters work because they're either the leader of a massive, massive army (Abaddon, Huron), or are exiles from their Legion and hire themselves out to the highest bidder (all the rest). If we make the characters Legion-specific, then we have to get rid of the gun-for-hire element, as it doesn't make sense that Khârn turning up to help your Iron Warriors fight makes all of them act like World Eaters, for example. They need to either be figures like Abaddon, who leads a large and diverse enough force that his presence can be explained in most forces, or a figure like Astoroth, who belongs to the sub-faction as a whole, travelling between them. Most Undivided Legions don't have either of those sorts of characters.

Actually the only real mercenary character is Fabius Bile, and his reasons are known to everyone. Everyone else does have motives and plans of their own. Well, except Khârn maybe but all he does is jump on the next jet / jump into the next portal and then ends up wherever and whenever Khorne wants him to be.

 

Ahriman, being the only actually exile, very much have his own plan and only do things that further his own plot, and he has his own very capable cabal that follows him.

 

Typhus has is his own plan as well spreading Nurgle's Zombie plague as of late around the Eye weakening the other fortress worlds, and he not only has a pretty good throne of soldiers making up his own Warband but he also has one of the biggest Capital Ships in the galaxy as his personal ride.

 

Lucius, ok I'll admit that Lucius might merc himself out, but it would only be to get into the thickest and most dangerous of battles where he can show his superiority. I sincerely doubt he would merc himself and help take a bastion from some pirates / handful of guardsmen.

 

TDA

[Warsmith Aznable]

So am I the only one who wouldn't mind seeing all the special characters except maybe Abbadon pulled from the next codex,

 

I sure hope so. I would miss Khârn something fierce...

[Brother Nihm]

I just read about the possibility of a new codex for chaos next year (And I pray it isn't a Matt Ward abomination!). It got me thinking, surely I can't be the only person who would like to see Erebus or another Word Bearers (Dark Apostle?) character in the next dex?

I'm not so sure that one or more special characters from each Legion would be wise or even possible given GWs strategy.

 

Talos would be the best choice if we really had to have a unique character I'm sure his prophetic ability could be worked in some way along with Night Lords standard fear jazz - reduce enemy leadership in combat and allow additional unit movement or altered placement before battle.

The best choice would be Krieg, imho.

 

Bitter Crusade (my own term, I just like it for some reason),

Me too,

In M31, after having seen his own death at the hands of an Imperial Assassin in a vision, the Primarch of the Night Lords called his captains to the planet Tsagualsa.

 

The Night Haunter met them in the Screaming Gallery, a place built of still-living bodies fused together, coiled vertebrae and dissected sinews, a testament to the Primarch's degrading psyche.

There he told the assembled commanders that he was soon to die and that they, his sons, could not interfere under any circumstances. Unable to fathom his actions Monios wanted to rage against the Night Haunter, to openly defy him, but the look of utter conviction in his Father's eyes held Monios back. Instead he and his men swore a solemn oath. As long as they drew breath they would pursue The Bitter Crusade, they would never rest, they would seek vengeance in their Primarch's name by destroying The Imperium of Man.

 

After nearly ten thousand years that hatred has only grown stronger.

;)

 

I sure hope so. I would miss Khârn something fierce...

it wouldn't be the same without him!

[darth_giles]

I'm not totally with you on this.

 

Yes, I do believe that our HQ need to be able to be diverse and have a plethora of options, with the ability to create a truly personalized character.

 

BUT, I do not believe that the "Old Guard" needs to be kicked out on to the curb to do this.

 

As to whether the current codex SCs will/should be in the next codex, it largely depends on the direction they take. Some rumors have the current codex getting a WD update ala Blood Angels in 4th (and rumored Sisters the next two months), while a brand new codex is being written for Chaos Legions. As to who should be in which? *shrug* That's an argument for another thread, but I do feel that the 4 Chaos Legions who were effectively left out of the last Chaos Marine book, should get their chance to shine.

I'll be honest, I think the "old guard" exactly needs to be kicked out. I'm tired of seeing lists based around whatever special character, with no attention paid to developing your warband's story. Special characters are always stronger, faster, tougher, et cetera; and you can't tell your force's story as long as its in their shadow.

 

The exception is when a special character massively changes a list, like how the Master of the Deathwing or Dante can do. But if that's the case, then you should be taking them as part of their special list instead of just fielding them as part of a normal list.