Grimdarkness Posted July 26, 2011 Share Posted July 26, 2011 The HH books have painted the lion as being suspect of the terran marines who made up the bulk of his legion at the start of the lions involvement in the crusade. So my question is what happens when the lion wakes up and finds his legion full of none caliban marines. Is he aware of what happened to caliban or did he have no idea of what his actions had done. Thanks Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235021-terran-marines/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Blaire Posted July 26, 2011 Share Posted July 26, 2011 IIRC, he ordered the bombardment and was on the surface during the Warp storm, so he's got to know at least some of what happened. The stories seem to conflict on just who he didn't trust. IIRC again, in Angels of Darkness and Descent of Angels, he was (very) wary of the Terran marines, but as they trained more Calibanites and he started moving around with the Legion as a whole, he apparently started to distrust the Calibanite marines as well, if not more, per Fallen Angels. I think that the question would be, regardless of who he was liking more in he end, would the Lion like who the Legion has become in the 9,999 years or so since his "death"? Do the Unforgiven have a "plan" for the Lion's return, etc? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235021-terran-marines/#findComment-2830191 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander S. Caesare Posted July 26, 2011 Share Posted July 26, 2011 LOL Starcraft! In Descent of Angels, Lion'el was aware of the fact that his 'rescue' legion was of Terran blood. That's why he sent his best students and brothers back to Caliban after a minor daemonic engagement, to train more new bloods of the Calibanite breed. As for the destruction of Caliban, it was he who order the orbital bombardment when the warp storms were closing in on the planet. All this stuff he knew of. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235021-terran-marines/#findComment-2830204 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Semper Posted July 26, 2011 Share Posted July 26, 2011 I'm with Bryan Blair on this. BTW the more Ithink of it the less I like the two HH novels. Oh well ... ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235021-terran-marines/#findComment-2830243 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimdarkness Posted July 26, 2011 Author Share Posted July 26, 2011 The novels where not that bad it,s the short story call of the lion in the tales of heresy book that is really out there concurring not only the lions outlook but also the calaban (sp) marines on there terran brethren. But then the HH books seem to show only the wolves and the thousand sons seemed to accept the marines from terra. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235021-terran-marines/#findComment-2830311 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Semper Posted July 26, 2011 Share Posted July 26, 2011 Well, it is of course a matter of opinion. I think they were both sub-par. Descent of Angels was largely irrelevant in the HH context, and the ending in the fallen Angels, don't get me started... However the short story Call of the Lion was interesting in that it can be seen as a Calibanite watching over a Terran (presumably because the Lion don't trust Terrans) BUT that Terran is Astelan. So the Lion was correct (for once) not to trust him. It might be a general anti-Terran phobia OR it could be personal. Or both. Agreed not a terrific read but interesting. More interesting for Astelan's personal saga, granted! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235021-terran-marines/#findComment-2830359 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Styphus Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 Well this is just the problem with the Dark Angels. They are a secret within a secret, and their books are contradictory. The first Novel had the Lion seeing the darkness that existed within all Calibanite warriors, and throwing those marines back to their cursed planet. The next novel tried to make it seem as if the Lion only sent them back to cover up their home planet's shame secret. It also shows how the feral-child upbringing of the Lion gave him crippling social problems. Gav's short story flipped it a bit, where the Lion favors a whiny Calibanite over a Terran using tactics. Sort of odd behavior for the Primarch noted for being the best tactician. Savage Weapons turned el'Jonson into a Chatty Kathy, and got rid of all the fun conspiracy theories about the Lion being a fence sitter. Thank you for that. So Black Library has given us 2 novels and short stories, where the first novel contradicts the first story, and the same goes for the second of both. For your final inquiry: The Lion was so aware that he didn't even try to hide it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235021-terran-marines/#findComment-2830532 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Semper Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 Look, I've been discussing this on the Internet for some time now. I'll be happy to continue doing it but probably through another thread. On topic: I think Bryan Blair nailed it. The Lion at that point (and probably much earlier than that) had decided Caliban was not worth saving. It was tainted and should be destroyed. And he ordered that thing exactly. Now whether he actually intended for the planet to break up or just kill everything on it is not clear but it is also irrelevant. Assuming the Fallen were not to escape what difference would it make if you had a planet taken apart or just render it devoid of life and uninhabitable? So yes in my view he was aware. Whether he'd approve of what DAs have become 10k years down the road is another question altogether... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235021-terran-marines/#findComment-2830645 Share on other sites More sharing options...
shabbadoo Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 The HH books have painted the lion as being suspect of the terran marines who made up the bulk of his legion at the start of the lions involvement in the crusade. So my question is what happens when the lion wakes up and finds his legion full of none caliban marines. Is he aware of what happened to caliban or did he have no idea of what his actions had done. Thanks Yes. He kinda ordered the bombardment of the planet, went planet-side to fight Luther, and watched the planet crumble around him amidst a warp storm as he lay dieing, and with Luther at his side lamenting his own failures. Totally epic. As soon as Lion wakes and is told the year, he'll know that the Caliban Dark Angels are no more within the Dark Angels Chapter, except maybe for those one or two who survive as emaciated husks in Dreadnought sarcophagi(if there even are any that old, and that are Calibanites). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235021-terran-marines/#findComment-2830780 Share on other sites More sharing options...
EPK Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 How awesome would it be if the next codex, as I hear they want to progress the 40K storyline, had the waking of the Lion. The 1st Legion being the 1st to have one of the lost Primarchs "return". I'm not sure what the return of a Primarch would spell for the Imperium but I can only assume GW got rid of them all for some semblance of balance. If a son of the Emperor lives, who has more power, the High Lords or said Primarch? I could see the Lion leaving the bureaucracy to the bureaucrats, but surely he would consider himself the Warmaster and commander of all armed forces of the Imperium. I'm not sure how high ranking officials of the Imperial Guard or Navy would feel about this. On the other hand, the common people may worship him, the son of their god. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235021-terran-marines/#findComment-2830919 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Degas Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 bringing back a primach would kill the other chapters, who would want to play against such a monsterous charactor and the story really has only 1 way to go, kill the fallen and reunite mankind. I think the DA have a plan, the SGM is a stand in primarch, when the lion retunrs hell step aside and become the grand master of a chapter only and an advisor to the lion. I like the idea of an ancient calinbanite dread though. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235021-terran-marines/#findComment-2830972 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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