Death of a Primarch?

[Saa]

Greetings fellow traitors.

 

Whilst musing over a previous topic regarding Word Bearer special chars, a heretical thought occured to me........is the demon Primarch Lorgar actually still alive?? Now I know he's allegedly holed up in the Templum Inficio but bear with me......

 

No one has actually seen him since his meditative 'hiatus' and the Dark Council rules the Word Bearers in his 'absence' but I don't think it's that cut and dry. Erebus claims to speak for him (Dark Creed etc) and we all know what a sneaky monkey he is at the best of times.

 

Lorgar is repeatedly admonished by Erebus and Kor Phaeron in Aaron Dembski-Bowdens The First Heretic for faltering in the tasks ahead of him. They both went behind his back to keep the Old Faith alive, knowing full well that he would eventually come round to their way of thinking. They have to be fair, manipulated him throughout his life.

 

Now, if Mr Lorgar either had a change of heart or was percieved by these two diabolical fellas to be straying from the 'plan', then I started to entertain the thought that maybe...just maybe, theres a big Primarch shaped corpse inside the Templum Inficio and not the contemplative demon prince that we're led to believe.

 

I'm not saying this would be an easy feat, offing a demon Primarch but in a moment of weakness it's concievable that Lorgar might even 'let' them finish him off as the burden was just too darn much for him to bear.....betraying his father / brothers / leading the WB's into damnation. After all, Fulgrim went this route so maybe Lorgar could have too?? Erebus and Kor Phaeron get to continue with their vision and no-one is any the wiser "*cough* he's um......yeah still meditating...*cough* continue with the plan boys."

 

Thoughts?

 

Edit; spelling

[TheDarkApostle]

We know for a fact he became a Daemon Prince.

 

That means he's a Daemons.

 

Daemons can't be killed.

 

End of story.

 

Also Lorgar's brand appeared on Marduk.

 

TDA

[Saa]

End of story.

 

End of story eh? It appears that I have stumbled across the finest authority on Word Bearers that the interwebz has to offer!!

 

Ok, so maybe not 'dead' per say but incapacitated to an extent where he has no power / authority to speak of

[Hyaenidae]

I understand your line of reasoning, and was even thinking something along those lines after The First Heretic (I was thinking prisoner, not dead), but in a different thread, A D-B mentioned that Lorgar will be a far different creature in the next book. Lorgar's just still in shock that Chaos is the truth of the galaxy (as he percieves it, at least), but he'll warm up soon, I'm sure.

[Yogi]

I disagree with you OP.

 

When I complained about the portrayal of Lorgar in the first heretic thread...

 

But as I said, I reckon Chaos Lorgar, neck-deep in the Heresy itself, will have thrown off his hesitance and doubt, as well as the shackles of reliance on Kor Phaeron and Erebus. He's the Archpriest of Chaos, and one of the best propaganda/recruitment weapons Chaos ever has. After all, Lorgar's Legion is the one that turns up with billions of cultists and daemons everywhere in the Heresy, bolstering Horus's forces by an insane amount. That's who Lorgar will become, later in the series.

 

[Posted in his next post.]

 

I just think it's important that at least one/some of the primarchs come into their own after Chaos takes hold. If they all become bloated, deluded fools, that's not exactly a great and/or inspiring enemy. Lorgar in The First Heretic was a soulful, lost creation, seeking a path. He only really finds that path after Isstvan V, when it's his duty to stand at Horus's side and rally half of the Imperium to the cause of Chaos. Now the betrayal is done, he can begin to shape humanity the way he believes it should be shaped. That was always his strength, his vision, and he'll get his chance to do that as the war rages on.

 

Sorry to punch holes, but I don't see him dying.

 

ADB wrote a wall of text to my whinging.. Source.

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...p;#entry2556763

[Ju'kosian]

I don't think Erebus or Khor phaeron have the strength to kill a primach themselves.

Specially Kor, since he's not a real astartes...

 

I believe Lorgar will change and in the next novel(s) we'll see a different primarch.. after he gets elevated to daemonhood for a reason so, he still have to do some things to get that reward.

[Saa]

As my favourite Primarch it will be great to read Mr Dembski-Bowdens next installment of Lorgars growth. I was just spit balling really. I find it odd that after achieving a lot of goals however (assisting in the corruption of 9 legions, establishing true worship amongst many of the traitor astartes as well as elevation to demonhood) that Lorgar has spent millennia sitting cross legged and humming :-P

 

Now if the BL would only give us a novel about Erebus and Kor Phaeron..... Oh yes.....yes please (cue maniacal laughter and moustache twiddling)

[TheDarkApostle]

Actually he's far from humming.

 

He's writing down all the orders for his Legion as given to him as prophesies and visions by the Dark Gods and otherwise trying to interpret and pen down all other things he's been learning from the Gods, not just the Big 4 but all of them, over the past 10,000 years.

 

That's why he's been so busy and not left his room so much.

 

TDA

[Saa]

Whilst I understand the sentiment TDA, it didn't take Rowboat Girlyman this long to interpret a 'vision' for the future of the astartes, and he didn't even have such direct 'guidance'.

 

Unless Ofc Lorgars plan is for the entirety of mankind with him as figurehead which though possible I've never taken Lorgar for having that kind of hubris. I'm still gonna call 'humming' :)

[TheDarkApostle]

Robot Girlyman simply penned down and collected tactics everyone else had thought up.

 

He did nothing but collect what others already had done.

 

And what Lorgar does pen down is indeed directions to cause the unity of the entire human race as well as bringing about the unity of both the physical and material planes. All will be one and humanity will finally live and rule for eternity.

 

TDA

[Master Of Malfeasance X]

It surprises me greatly that the Emperor, upon finding the lost primarch, didn't take one look at Erebus and Kor Phaeron as well as the effect they were having on his creation and off them out of hand. He certainly didn't mind doing it when he found Angron.

[Olis]

We know for a fact he became a Daemon Prince.

 

That means he's a Daemons.

 

Daemons can't be killed.

 

End of story.

 

Not read the Eisenhorn books then, eh? B)

[Trel]

As a Daemon Prince, Lorgar's been imbued with enough power from the Warp to effectively make him a Warp Entity with all of the strengths and weaknesses that come with it. He's not a Primarch anymore. It also makes the question of whether he's 'alive' a tricky one.

 

In some ways, he's really not alive anymore and in other ways, he's gone beyond the point where 'alive' is just a semantic construct.

 

The temple that he is holed-up in probably acts as his anchor to the Material Plane, since going from the Warp to the Material Plane is no longer a trivial thing for him. In that temple, he is most easily and directly able to communicate with his Legion, even if it is primarily in the form of visions, miracles and prophesies. To fully manifest on the material plane, he would have to be summoned, which would require an obscene amount of power to do, considering Lorgar's strength. (To wit, that's why no one can summon Khorne himself.) Additionally, being summoned would put him under some degree of control by his summoner, which he may not be cool with.