Is a One StormRaven list viable at 1750?

[SamaNagol]

Have been running 3 x MSU RAS with meltagun and LClaw in RazorBack with Assault Cannons supported by 3 counter assault units of Meph, a Furioso foot-slogging and 5 DC in a FlamerBack backed up by 2x2 MeltaBikes and 2 Vindicators to pretty good success recently. Everything has Extra Armour and as such can always get around the board to redeploy and support weak points in my lines or double up on weak points in theirs. And it means every vehicle that can move, move at 12" every turn making close combat a non-viable strategy for taking down my tanks.

 

However I was looking at dropping 2 of the bikes, the DC Razorback and all of my 5 x Extra Armour and RAS unit upgrades to buy the CD a Stormraven plus Lemartes whilst dropping the Furioso down to a DC Dread.

 

This gives me 3 truly scary close combat units, another piece of armour which can draw fire and of course the ability to get the DC Dread into combat on the first turn or the turn the Raven arrives from reserve with his Fleet.

 

But my main issue is... one StormRaven full up of 470pts of black armour guys. Giant target. How viable is it to get the Dread in combat 1st turn/turn you arrive and how survivable are they with their turbo boost for that vital one turn? Cos after the DC climb out, their target priority drops like a stone down the list below my Vindicators again.

[ulllyssies0110]

I run two and they preform outstandingly. Most of the time its a turn two drop off or the troops & Dread. I use mine in a fire support role. It will be a fire magnet though. So use cover and flat out to keep it on the table. It's my favorite vehicle in the game. Here are my 2 load outs TLAC, TLMM, Hurricane Bolters & TLPC, Typhoon launchers, Hurricane bolters. The first one i a good all purpose build and the second will destroy infantry along with light tanks.

 

P.S. I took out an Exorcist W/ the Hurricane bolters.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

It's definitely an all your eggs in one basket approach but if you can pull off the multi charge it can break your opponent's back. It will strengthen your assault capabilities if you can move the skimmer into a forward position. My approach to using one Stormraven has been to typically hold it reserve. Some armies can't threaten it much if they don't have a lot of long range AT - of course often that won't be the case. I think the DC dread is the better way to go if you're going to run a squad of Death Company - fleet is very helpful for stretching out to multi assault. I think the best thing to do is play test with a Stormraven (proxy if necessary) and see if it can work for you. It might require several games to get it right so don't give up immediately if you don't have immediate success. I'm a big fan of the Stormraven and think it can provide the perfect synergy for a Blood Angels army that is geared for heavy assaults.

 

G :tu:

[JMac]

I like the idea, and taking off the extra armor isn't too much of a draw back considering most if not all fire will be aimed at your stormraven.

 

To answer your original question: Yes, one raven is viable at 1750. If you only run one, your best bet is to take BlackOrange's advice and keep it in reserve. AV12 is not very reliable and you can bet that 4 out of 5 games, your raven will get blown to bits. As of now, it's role is to get your hard hitting units into combat, FAST! I've had games where my raven doesn't come in until turn 3 or 4, but when it does, my opponent is shaking and I usually end up winning those games.

 

It is my favorite unit to play in the BA codex, partly because Furiosos are my favorite unit in the codex and the raven makes them reliable :wacko: My favorite thing to do is to run a Furioso into my buddies blood crushers and just whittle them down in 2-3 turns. He hates it, but I love it.

[SamaNagol]

tbh, the model is so big that it is functionally impossible to keep it out of LOS unless you are playing on a display board at Games Day! So my thinking was to just be as brazen as hell and turbo boost it right up the middle into the enemy's lap and put the fear of the almighty into them. the 3++ save from the boost is better than any cover save it can get, and being up close is far less dangerous for a Storm Raven than say a Land Raider. That said I am sure you still need to be conservative with it.

 

Do people tend to drop off their cargo down one flank and have it eat its way through the enemy lines, or do you thrust it like the speartip right into the heart?

[RebG]

Do people tend to drop off their cargo down one flank and have it eat its way through the enemy lines, or do you thrust it like the speartip right into the heart?

 

Good question and one I'd be interested to see some answers to.

 

For me it depends on a) the cargo (DC, Hon Guard, RAS...) and b ) the target (endless choice). My DC are often sent down the middle unless there's something very specific I really need to take out. When I carry my HG they are usually a little more carefully placed to go after a very specific target (they are C'C loadout) where as RAS are going for a support role as and when required.

 

All of that relies on the 'Raven making it over the table which, at 1,500, is usually about 50/50. I've put together my second 'Raven now aiming for two at 1,750 but I don't have all the other tanks you do as I run a jump pack force.

[SamaNagol]

Yeh I think the issue is I need to play several games against 15 Missile Launcher SW lists or 8 Psycannon Grey Knights to see how likely it is that Raven is even getting across the board. And thats another reason why I was considering just boosting it right up the middle 24". Because even if it gets shot down, the marines inside are Fearless and have 3+/4+FNP so will survive the crash and will be close enough to still be a serious threat in my turn. Anyone with a brain would go into full reverse when the Storm Raven comes towards them and systematically dump missiles into it saving Plasma for the infantry and some other high St ranged weapons for the Dread.

 

In my head it is too much of an all or nothing card to play for tournament play

[Xenith]

turbo boost it right up the middle into the enemy's lap and put the fear of the almighty into them. the 3++ save from the boost is better than any cover save it can get...

 

Erm...youre playing it wrong. The Storm Raven goes 'Flat Out', not 'turboboost'. Bikes boost, and get the 3+ Cover, the Raven flat outs and get a 4+ cover, just like every other skimmer in the game. Unless you are GK and are Shrouding.

[Martok]

Hey I run this:

 

Libby + 9 ass marines in rhino

 

Sang Priest + 9 ass marines in rhino

 

Sang priest + 5 ass marines in TL las razor

 

7 Death Co + Lemartes in Storm Raven with Melta/Las

 

2 x TL Las/DCCW dreads

 

In this list I have had so much fun with the death co its unreal. Only problem is its pretty one dimensional. If you have first turn deploy on board and the Raven goes flat out into the enemy lines so regardless of how much they move you will be able to charge something with the death co even if the raven is killed. If you go 2nd in my experience it always fails when the raven is deployed so these days i always reserve so when it does come on you can flat out again and follow the same tactic as if you went first. Of course I have had games were it didn't show up till 5th turn which really, really sucked.

 

- Martok

[SamaNagol]

That's what I meant :)

[Midnightmare]

How mad is ithat? I have been think of the same thing recently, only my dilema boils down to Storm Raven vs. Land Raider Crusader. I'm not sure that 1 SR is viable but 1 LRC should be. My usual list is(ish) Mephy/3 x Razor squads/2 x Baal's/Attack Bikes/DC with Chappy in Rhino/Frag Furioso in pod. I'll be dropping Mephy for the SR/LRC but I want the DC's ride to be more survivable. I'm even thinking of keeping the pod for the dread to present more fire targets away from my troops.

[Black Marshal]

i Freaking love the storm raven. i am running one in my list of 1750 and i am looking to squeeze in another. eventually i plan on running a 3 SR list. most people dont like the SR but it has never failed me and it strikes fear into the heart of my enemy. long story short Storm Raven Gunsip=BOSS

[Ruthven]

I only own one Raven at the moment, but it is usually an auto-include in any list that I make above 1500 points. My local scene uses a lot of melta-spam, so the Raven tends to be better suited to move my army than Landraiders. I've been putting either a fighty honor guard, vanguard vet squad, or my Death Company in it. To help it survive, I have found reserving it if you don't get first turn is almost a must. Also, I've started making sure there are other really dangerous targets on the field, like a whole bunch of angry Death Company charging right at their lines, melta/plasma HG on the table, Predators, Vindicators, or whatever your personal preference is as a "must-kill" target. If they shoot at the Raven, they'll likely have ignore or not put enough shots on what ever your other dangerous target(s) is, and vice-versa. I've been a huge fan of making sure that no matter what survive, it will destroy whatever it is thrown at!

[SamaNagol]

I like how if it appears in 2nd or 3rd turn, it completely removes target priority from Mephiston and my Vindicators. Yet they cannot be ignored at all.

[SamaNagol]

Ok, I just remembered IG Hydras. Which make Storm Ravens unusable at tournament play. :cuss.

[JMac]

I wouldn't say unusable. A pain in the arse to play with, yes.

 

Again, keep it in reserve, move flat out the turn it comes on. Now they will only get 1 turn of shooting at the raven. In that one turn, that hydra may only get 1 shot and may scatter completely off target. On the other hand, that hydra may get 3 shots and pummel your stormraven. You still get a 4++. IF it survives, turn they will regret it. If not, your cargo is half way there.

[Brother_Byhlli]

Do people tend to drop off their cargo down one flank and have it eat its way through the enemy lines, or do you thrust it like the speartip right into the heart?

 

My attitude is that no unit in a Space Marine army should be thrust right into the heart of an enemy army.

 

The Emperor has blessed me with small numbers. That gives me a tight deployment. That gives me flank denial and allows me to focus my entire army at one of your flanks, before rolling you off the board. No army is better suited to taking out one flank of an army and then progressing along the board than Space Marines. None. Not one. If you put anything of your force directly into your opponents centre, you're inviting an attack from every side. Space Marines cannot afford that.

 

Focus on one area - pick your opponent's weakest or fastest-moving flank and completely obliterate it. You're then free to deal with his nasty unit or his slow-moving plodders without being distracted by anything else.

 

Haven't read anything in the thread beyond this post, but I'm not convinced anything can be said which counters this.

[SamaNagol]

I wouldn't say unusable. A pain in the arse to play with, yes.

 

Again, keep it in reserve, move flat out the turn it comes on. Now they will only get 1 turn of shooting at the raven. In that one turn, that hydra may only get 1 shot and may scatter completely off target. On the other hand, that hydra may get 3 shots and pummel your stormraven. You still get a 4++. IF it survives, turn they will regret it. If not, your cargo is half way there.

 

You don't get a 4++ against the Hydra

[Brother-Captain Lucius]

Looks as if he got his IG tanks mixed up. Looks like he was referring to the Manticore with which you do get a cover save against its shots.

 

As to Ravens being unusable in Tourney play i dont think so at all. I recently took 9th out of 40 at a recent 1750 tourney with Double ravens and granted i didnt play either of the 2 guard players but having played 2-4 hydra guard armies in practice games i know that they can be neutralised with DoA'ing Assault squads which i take in my lists.

[SamaNagol]

I'm thinking I am going to NEED to run something that can neutralise those Hydras if I ever want to take a Raven to a serious tournament.

 

Furioso in a pod or DOA Assault Marines is a good shout.