Dark Angels

[TheAvengingKnee]

I have a friend who has started playing DA, I play Blood Angels. He is using 4 squads of the Deathwing termies , I have tried allot of different things to kill them but I just can't find anything that can do much damage, Ive tried spamming plasma cannons and laz cannons I managed 3 wounds total on them(during the entire game). I honestly just don't know what to field to have a chance, I tried fielding land raiders to help protect troops but they spend most of the game shaken from the thunder hammers, I tried rhinos and razorbacks but those just disappeared and the troops inside were next, I tried using no vehicles(or very limited) and the troops never managed to wound. Any idea what I can do?

 

a bit of additional info:

2000 point

4 squads or more

TH/SS with 1 ML

- 1 Squad with an HQ and an Apoth

 

Usually he lands in front of vehicles so I either have to sit there and get TH to death(and not shoot) or I have to tank shock through and run the whole game and greatly reduce the number of shots I can fire. He usually has 3 preds and 3 LS to start picking off any veichles that get past his termies. as far as troops go it usually ends up me shooting until the TH/SS termies crush them to a pulp.

[MagicMan]

Can't you fire defensive weapons at 12'' with the BA fast vehicles? Theres no reason for him to be able to be hitting you with TH all the time. And if you're moving that fast he'll need 6's to hit.

 

 

 

That and plasma guns?

[TheAvengingKnee]

well to keep me from firing he only needs to hit and glance once, and I tried the las plas razor as well as plasma cannons and they scored 4 wounds the entire game through the 3+ invuln, I tried conventional weapons they scored 0 wounds.

[LardO'Blood]

Just a funny idea, I've never really used the BA codex except for fun battles, but have you tried an all jump pack army arriving from reserves?

It seems you might be able to get some good melta shots on his vehicles and if he does a first turn teleport (Deathwing Assault) then you wont have to worry about his troops landing right in front of you. You might want to bring a large DC squad and try and multi assault terminator squads to buy yourself time to get away with your vehicles, I am not sure if that is point efficient enough though. A librarian with unleash rage and a LC terminator squad with a priest should be able to deliver a butt whooping in close combat. Given the charge that is 4-5 casualties on a standard TH/SS squad, so you might want to isolate a single squad and charge from a Land Raider. I would also use a standard LR because the lascannons will help against the terminators (if only slightly) and they can easily take out a land speeder.

Maybe a list something like this (I haven't played BA much so this is 100% theoretical):

HQ

Librarian with TDA, SS, unleash rage, blood boil: 145

Troops

15 Death Company with LR: 550

5 Assault Marines with melta gun: 110

5 Assault Marines with melta gun: 110

5 Assault Marines with melta gun: 110

5 Assault Marines with melta gun: 110

5 Assault Marines with melta gun: 110

Elites

5 Terminators with LC and LRC: 450

Sanguinary Priest in TDA: 85

Fast Attack

7 bikes, 2 plasma guns, combi plasma, attack bike with MM: 220

[GreatEscape_13]

I'm guessing they all deepstrike in?

 

If so, then keep everything mounted and rely on fast stuff like Landspeeders and Baal Predators to fight him. Once he arrives, take a turn to use the 18" flat out move of your rhino chassis stuff to build space (tuck behind cover to avoid his cyclones). Then just kite the termies around. If he runs, he can't shoot the cyclones. If he shoots the cyclones, he can't reach you. Running all TH/SS but the cyclone really limits his options (don't tell him tho), since if he wants to shoot he can't reduce distances by running.

 

Since they're all stormshielded, I would advise as many heavy bolters as you can pump out. With stormshields, I find that volume of fire out-performs AP. But any weapons should work.

 

The trick here would be to deny his units. Try to keep them compact and chasing one target, while whittling them down. Maybe have a sacrificial lamb (a rhino with a 5-man w/ sgt combiflamer) that can cruise up and tease them to come toward it, pulling the units away from other sources. Then when they destroy it and spend time charging the 5-man squad, it gives more time for redeployment of others.

 

Good luck, and let us know what you try and how you fare.

 

Cheers.

[Jehoel]

I have a friend who has started playing DA, I play Blood Angels. He is using 4 squads of the Deathwing termies , I have tried allot of different things to kill them but I just can't find anything that can do much damage, Ive tried spamming plasma cannons and laz cannons I managed 3 wounds total on them(during the entire game). I honestly just don't know what to field to have a chance, I tried fielding land raiders to help protect troops but they spend most of the game shaken from the thunder hammers, I tried rhinos and razorbacks but those just disappeared and the troops inside were next, I tried using no vehicles(or very limited) and the troops never managed to wound. Any idea what I can do?

 

a bit of additional info:

2000 point

4 squads or more

TH/SS with 1 ML

- 1 Squad with an HQ and an Apoth

 

Usually he lands in front of vehicles so I either have to sit there and get TH to death(and not shoot) or I have to tank shock through and run the whole game and greatly reduce the number of shots I can fire. He usually has 3 preds and 3 LS to start picking off any veichles that get past his termies. as far as troops go it usually ends up me shooting until the TH/SS termies crush them to a pulp.

 

If he is using Deathwing Assault to "land in front of vehicles" on turn one then he cannot assault the vehicle on that turn, since DWA is deepstriking and you can't assault after deepstriking. This also works to stop any later deepstriking units from assaulting too.

[TyrionTheImp]

I'm guessing they all deepstrike in?

 

If so, then keep everything mounted and rely on fast stuff like Landspeeders and Baal Predators to fight him. Once he arrives, take a turn to use the 18" flat out move of your rhino chassis stuff to build space (tuck behind cover to avoid his cyclones). Then just kite the termies around. If he runs, he can't shoot the cyclones. If he shoots the cyclones, he can't reach you. Running all TH/SS but the cyclone really limits his options (don't tell him tho), since if he wants to shoot he can't reduce distances by running.

 

CML's kill hordes, mech, and marines with ease, if he's got them on every squad it's a problem. Who needs to reduce distances when you're shoving 2 CMLs per squad out while still moving 6"? Not me. Not sure how it limits anything by running TH/SS, AP2 bounces off of him and he's still got a 2+ armor, so what if he loses some bolter shots. All TH/SS with CML's is basically the best way to play them now, yes they are -that- good, I personally do it, and have little problems.

 

Since they're all stormshielded, I would advise as many heavy bolters as you can pump out. With stormshields, I find that volume of fire out-performs AP. But any weapons should work.

Obvious answer is obvious. Yes, higher amount of shots is the way to kill Deathwing. Assuming you're list tailoring of course, HB's is the way to go on your Razors.

 

The trick here would be to deny his units. Try to keep them compact and chasing one target, while whittling them down. Maybe have a sacrificial lamb (a rhino with a 5-man w/ sgt combiflamer) that can cruise up and tease them to come toward it, pulling the units away from other sources. Then when they destroy it and spend time charging the 5-man squad, it gives more time for redeployment of others.

Hammernators vs 5 Man Squad = Dead 5 Man squad in a turn, how's that slow anything down exactly? BA have superior mobility, I suggest you use it, keeping them compact and chasing one target is stupid, divide and conquer, not herd them like sheep. If you can focus down one squad at a time, that's the best way to kill them, the problem is you have to DESTROY the squad, otherwise Fearless will keep that one model around.

 

Here are some tips:

 

Don't go after the HQ squad. 2+/3++ with FNP is a pain to kill with anything, keep away from it.

 

Avoid assault. What's worse than 2 CML's a turn? 2 CML's plus an assault from TH's.

 

Use speed in objective games. He can't move more than 6 +D6" per turn, try and lure him away from objectives and grab them before the end of the game, assuming he's dumb enough to fall for that. 48" range is spiffy, as is fearless.

 

In Kill Points concentrate fire, one at a time. If you don't kill the whole squad he can hide a single model and deny the KP, don't let him do that.

 

Stun-lock the Predators. You don't need to kill them outright (though in KP's it's easier than Terminators), but silence their guns every turn and you'll save yourself from some pain.

[Tanhausen]

[... scribbling down a name in his black book of traitors...]

 

L-a-n-n-i-s-t-e-r

 

 

 

:)

[appiah4]

Fight fire with fire.

 

Field 2 squads of 10 tactical terminators with 2 CMLs each, joined by bare Sanguinary Priests. Just walk up and rain death on them. Walk back and keep pouring if they try to engage in close combat. At 24" you'll pour so much regular fire on him that he'll bleed to death, and your tactical terminators, with 2+/5++ FNP will be very difficult to remove. Add 3 Multi Melta dreadnoughts in pods to deal with the predators reliably. They can then help the terminators. And some Tactical squads with Multi-Meltas and Plasmaguns (and possibly a combi Plasma) in Rhinos.

 

I just wish I had 20 terminators. I would love to field this list..

 

Maybe I should get a lot of AOBR Terminators :huh:

[Tanhausen]

I'm a DW player...

 

And if I have FnP, guess who eats all the plasma, melta and so on... oooooops, no FnP if you eat AP 1 and 2 :)

[Laughingdagger]

If he's running them with hammers and shields I'd do as appiah5 said, because you can just drain him of wounds with 20 storm bolter shots and 4 missiles from each squad every turn.

[Master Of Malfeasance X]

You're forgetting 2 things:

1. The perversity rules of 40k states that when shooting at really elite, highly armored troops, it is the most insignificant, incidental shooting that will cause the most damage. Guard kill terminators with lasguns, so shoot them with anything, just make sure to shoot them. You are scared of his terminators and it is reflecting itself in your play style. Your imagination has created a monster that you cannot possibly kill without titanic amounts of luck or help. Remember this:

a. You have a newer, more flexible codex

b. Your army has lame stuff that quickly and efficiently exterminates your enemies, too. Time to get to work finding out what it is.

 

2. Relax. Psychologically, you have hit a roadblock. You could play this dude until you get better, but the problem is that he is getting better, too. To really dial this thing in, find an opponent who is impossibly difficult to play against and go play that guy a few times. After that, deathwing terminators will seem like ice cream and sunshine.

[nurglephill]

I have faced this army and learnt a couple of things.

 

1. Make sure you deploy in a way that three units are all in range of each other and can all focus fire on a single enemy unit

2. shoot and keep shooting one unit at a time until it is dead or down to one model

3. use cheap as hell units to block squads your not ready to shoot at. As terminators cannot sweeping advance you can even throw tactical squads at them and then 'run away' as they cannot chase you. Also cheap rhinos that can be killed without concern are cool 'cos you can block channels and make them go around

 

Basically target priority is the key. List the units you need to kill/or would have the best chance of killing first (if they are all hammernaters pick on the ones closest rather than most dangerous) shoot the crap out of them with everything you can and try to block and slow down all his other units.

 

Oh, another good idea is setting up in cover and falling back through it so they have to make the movement roll to reach you, if they fail you get another round of shooting.

 

Lastly.

 

Good luck!

[Brother Navaer Solaq]

I like nurglephills idea.

 

using rhino that will wreck or block as difficult terrain. that results in more shooting at DW

 

The next question would be how to handle those fast bikes? charge with assault squads??

[aekold]

You know he is only allowed to deepstrike half of his deathwing squads (rounding up) in the first turn? That gives him 2, mayne 3 squads at most in turn 1. I think you should be able to deal with that.

[Zid]

You know he is only allowed to deepstrike half of his deathwing squads (rounding up) in the first turn? That gives him 2, mayne 3 squads at most in turn 1. I think you should be able to deal with that.

 

Exactly. If you have full marine squads charging in you'll kill about 2 (assuming FC and average rolling). If you play like i do, you'll be unfair; 20 marines into 5 termis typically means dead termis. Or, you could do it this way, run a priest, librarian, and PW sergeant in a squad of AM's...charge in. Thats 12 rerollable str 5 PW's, + however many othe rattacks. Termis hate massed attacks :)