"Termicide" Question

[Neuroth]

So I'm familiar with this idea: DS 3-5 Termies with combi melta/plasma, eliminate something big, let them die off. But has anyone here ever built upon a "Termicide" unit with any success?

 

Suppose you threw a Reaper AC in there. Suppose you Tzeench-marked the squad, giving them an overal 2+/4++. Suppose, just to shake things up, you threw a Tzeench-Termie-Sorceror in there with some nice psychic shooting attacks. That'd go nicely with the 4 combi-meltas and reaper AC, right? Also, depending on placement, it might just survive a round or two.

 

Anybody tried this? If so, how did it go?

[Brother Ambroz]

Reaper is for the most part better for lightly armored things, melta is generally saved for AV 13-14. The sorceror would just be a huge pointsink where you could be spending it on something far better and more survivable, IE DPs, PMs, oblits etc. Just remember termicide is there to shoot and die. Some people put a chainfist in there just in case they survive to charge and hit whatever they were shooting, but they're never meant to survive long.

[LPetersson]

I could be wrong, but I'm under the impression that termicide refers to a squad expected to die, so I guess this isn't a termicide squad :D

 

But seriously, I hate the idea of dropping in a unit and expecting them to die, so I tend to put my termies (Wolf guards in my case, but the same principle applies) some lace where they can do some damage, but still survive either through cover or other squads backing them up.

[Brother Ambroz]

Because of our lack of delivery options available to chaos, we pretty much have no choice but to go with termicide to be effective in a competitve setting LP.

[Brother Nihm]

Not to mention lack of fearlessness/ATSKNF.

The IoCG can only do so much.

[lorddraconis]

I have only begun to use Termicide in my lists and so far I find running a pair of 3xCombi-Melta guys works rather well. Basically this way if one group doesnt kill something another squad can try and it spreads my tank busting options a little further out for those all MEQ lists.

[Neuroth]

The sorceror would just be a huge pointsink where you could be spending it on something far better and more survivable, IE DPs

 

Why is a DP more survivable than a Terminator-Sorceror accompanied by a squad of Terminators? The DP is taller, making it easier to hit. Most players will target a DP right away. Moreover, even if you Tzeench-mark a DP, it will never get a 2+ armor save. The DP has one more wound and Eternal Warrior, but the Sorceror in that setup would have five ablative wounds around him. And every member of the squad would have a 2+/4++. The Sorceror and Terminator setup is more expensive, granted, but I think it's far more survivable.

 

At least on paper.

[Brother Ambroz]

For that price you pay 2x what a normal DP is. You could take two and if you're playing correctly (hugging terrain etc) then it shouldn't be getting targeted by every shot, one or two is a given. 2+ armor save isn't much better than 3+ which the DP has. One DP would likely kill that entire squad of termies and your Tzeentchian sorceror. I'm not telling you what to do but you'll find out in the long run DPs have better survivability, cheaper and more verasatile. Also there's the morale part Brother Nihm was saying, you take a few shots and your fearless sorceror suddenly becomes scared because of his termy buddies.

[Neuroth]

Stuff

 

Well... I suppose the idea merits some futher examination. :)

 

What I'm really looking for is a good, sturdy unit (preferrably a squad) that can be dropped in the enemy's back field and be more than a one-turn wonder. Unfortunately, it seems that every common CSM tactic concerning DS/Outflank involves a sort of "kamikaze" approach.

 

 

So, to rephrase my original question, has anyone here found something they can slip behind enemy lines that has good staying power? (For example, something that could DS/Outflank and bring enough firepower to clear an MEQ squad from an objective.)

[Vilicate]

Don't take just four or five terminators - take ten. Or nine, since they're marked Tzeetnch.

 

Then they'll have some staying power.

 

Otherwise, that's what five man terminator squads do when they deepstrike - they pretty much blow something up, and either the enemy dedicates enough firepower to wipe them out (competent opponent) or he leaves them alone or doesn't shoot them enough to totally destroy them and they get to eat something else on your next turn, wherein they usually die.

 

That's been my experience. I usually go with three or ten.

[Brother Ambroz]

Stuff

 

Well... I suppose the idea merits some futher examination. :P

 

What I'm really looking for is a good, sturdy unit (preferrably a squad) that can be dropped in the enemy's back field and be more than a one-turn wonder. Unfortunately, it seems that every common CSM tactic concerning DS/Outflank involves a sort of "kamikaze" approach.

 

 

So, to rephrase my original question, has anyone here found something they can slip behind enemy lines that has good staying power? (For example, something that could DS/Outflank and bring enough firepower to clear an MEQ squad from an objective.)

 

Um ok? I'm not trying to offend you or anything I'm simply telling you how it is.

 

You're really stuck on terminators aren't you? Well our terminators for the most part suck either way you put it. If you want something that can come in behind or on the enemy players side, try chosen with plasma-meltaguns. You can put them in a rhino and outflank them. Hopefully then a few turns in they can come in and light up whatever it is you want to kill.

[Neuroth]

Bah, no offense taken man. I posted the question so I could hear from people who are in the know, after all. :P

 

I guess my liking for DS units stems from a desire to be all over the board.

[Brother Ambroz]

I've never tried this, but you could try oblits too, they just seem a bit expensive for a DS unit. I like DS too you're not alone there.

[Brother Nihm]

I guess my liking for DS units stems from a desire to be all over the board.

 

Understandable, you only need to be where it counts though. :P

[Neuroth]

I've never tried this, but you could try oblits too, they just seem a bit expensive for a DS unit. I like DS too you're not alone there.

 

Yeah, I contemplated that myself. Using three Oblits as a triple-Lascannon platform seemed like a waste of potential.

[Khestra the Unbeheld]

So, to rephrase my original question, has anyone here found something they can slip behind enemy lines that has good staying power? (For example, something that could DS/Outflank and bring enough firepower to clear an MEQ squad from an objective.)

 

Outflanking a 10-man Chosen squad with a Rhino, decked out with 5 plasmaguns and an Icon of Tzeentch, can be super annoying and dump a really good amount of shots into a squad, starting from the Rhino's firepoints all the way to disembark. It's not even remotely cheap, but it's got more ablative bodies than a Termy squad and has a bus.

[Warsmith Aznable]

I've never tried this, but you could try oblits too, they just seem a bit expensive for a DS unit. I like DS too you're not alone there.

 

Isn't it kind of a waste to not be shooting with them the rounds they are waiting in Reserve?

[Something Wycked]

Isn't it kind of a waste to not be shooting with them the rounds they are waiting in Reserve?

It is. Even if your opponent hides his important units behind cover so that your Oblits can't get shots at what you want to kill the most, you're still affecting his battle plan by not allowing him free reign over his movement phase; area denial can work wonders for your game plan.

[Brother Ambroz]

Yeah I was really only pointing out he could do it.

[SyNidus]

a desire to be all over the board.

 

Whooo...down boy, when she's ready she'll be all over you :P

 

Jokes aside, perhaps instead of deepstriking, try using bikes? The turboboost will allow you to position yourself where you want to be. (granted it takes more planning).

[Warsmith Aznable]

So, to rephrase my original question, has anyone here found something they can slip behind enemy lines that has good staying power? (For example, something that could DS/Outflank and bring enough firepower to clear an MEQ squad from an objective.)

 

Outflanking a 10-man Chosen squad with a Rhino, decked out with 5 plasmaguns and an Icon of Tzeentch, can be super annoying and dump a really good amount of shots into a squad, starting from the Rhino's firepoints all the way to disembark. It's not even remotely cheap, but it's got more ablative bodies than a Termy squad and has a bus.

 

That is an interesting idea. I just starting experimenting with Chosen in a similar way. I deploy five Chosen with Meltaguns and task them with mayhem. It has worked surprisingly well.

[totgeboren]

Having Oblits in reserve can be a very good thing. A few weeks ago, I faced a fully mechanized Eldar army (I knew it would be full of Eldar tanks), and my Chaos army is quite slow. I simply knew I was going to be outmanouvered if I tried to get him with just rhinos and the like, so I included a Termicide units (funnily enough lead by a Chaos Lord), 3x1 obliterators as heavy support and a unit of raptors with meltaguns, all deep striking.

 

I deviated with all my deep strikes, but I didn't lose any units, and after five turns, the Mechdar army was wiped of the table. A single Oblit behind every important enemy vehicles really helps! Having my unit of daemons show up at turn three, helping my lone lord kill lots of Dire Avengers lead by Eldrad, and driving them of the board was really fortunate, and lighter infantry get totally owned by daemons.

 

However, this was an army based around lots of DS, so it was at the expense of all other heavy support, which is a downer in my book.

[TheDarkApostle]

However, this was an army based around lots of DS, so it was at the expense of all other heavy support, which is a downer in my book.

You still still go the route of a variant of that, IE taking 4 Oblits split up: 1-1-2, leaving the 2 man team as a fire support and deployed normally, with the two single Oblits deep striking for added havoc.

 

TDA

[Neuroth]

so I included a Termicide units (funnily enough lead by a Chaos Lord)

 

Do you happen to remember how you put together that unit? (number of terminators, lord's gear, etc)

[totgeboren]

so I included a Termicide units (funnily enough lead by a Chaos Lord)

 

Do you happen to remember how you put together that unit? (number of terminators, lord's gear, etc)

 

Sure, three termies with combi-weapons, one who was a champ with a powerfist and an Icon of Chaos, plus ones Lord who had termie armour, a Daemon weapon and the MoT. In that particular battle, the termies did nothing except get killed, but the lord managed to immobilize and weapon destroy an Eldar tank, and summon a bunch of daemons to kill Eldrad and his cronies..