thade Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 Isn't a single lightning claw the same as a power weapon? No. Power weapons can get the extra attack for 2 weapons, lightning claws reroll failed to wounds. Which is strictly better (statistically speaking) than a power weapon insofar as expected wounds inflicted. That said, the power weapon has a chance (albeit a small one) of inflicting one more power weapon wound than the lit claw possibly can. All things being equal, I'd take the claw...but the pw looks cool. Though, honestly, I do not give my priests melee upgrades, because they can be singled out in an assault (they're ICs), have one wound, and no invuln save. Not to mention that my opponent will gun for them. I allocate those points elsewhere, personally. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235256-how-to-equip-and-what-role/page/2/#findComment-2839441 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 power weapon or lightning claw. You don't want to allow your opponent to play wound allocation games with a whole bunch of power weapon attacks and 1 guy fighting with normal attacks. This is brilliant !! :) G Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235256-how-to-equip-and-what-role/page/2/#findComment-2839516 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 Sorry, I should add that I don't field SG :) so I don't have to sweat wound allocation issues with my priest swinging. (He either stays in the transport or is with a ranged squad, firing in before the charge.) What JamesI suggests regarding wound allocation is very sound. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235256-how-to-equip-and-what-role/page/2/#findComment-2839520 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 I always run mine as follows: Banner | 2x melter pistol | power fist I used them as a retinue for Dante and attach a Priest as well (power sword). G :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235256-how-to-equip-and-what-role/page/2/#findComment-2839526 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sokhar Posted August 6, 2011 Share Posted August 6, 2011 You can avoid your opponent playing wound games without springing for a power weapon for your priest though. Keep him to the back of the squad and don't necessarily move as close as possible before charging. When you assault move the other models first, and (if possible) keep the priest from getting into base to base with anyone. He can't attack (and muck up the wound allocation) and your opponent can't swing back at him. Win-win. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235256-how-to-equip-and-what-role/page/2/#findComment-2839734 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted August 6, 2011 Share Posted August 6, 2011 ICs must move into combat if possible. Moving other models first to block off b2b contact from the Priest is a rules infraction. G :tu: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235256-how-to-equip-and-what-role/page/2/#findComment-2839757 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt.blood Posted August 6, 2011 Share Posted August 6, 2011 What about taking a unit with 3 melta pistols and 3 fists, attached to Dante, and deep striking to kill absolutely anything on the board. After all, it is the cheapest source of infernus pistols, and fists in the entire codex... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235256-how-to-equip-and-what-role/page/2/#findComment-2839759 Share on other sites More sharing options...
toaae Posted August 6, 2011 Share Posted August 6, 2011 Its not that cheap, since the codex already figures you spent 15 points a model for the Glaive Encarmine, and the Powerfist is only worth 10 points then. The problem with powerfists in Sang guard (and I do like them; I take one) is that you lose high initiative attacks that can eliminate the potential attacks back that may ignore armor saves. A power fist is better then a power weapon when you don't have any other PWs, because if gives you reliability to kill (ask any ork player how much they rely on their Nobz and power klaws to do the killing in a boyz mob). When the whole squad has power weapons, it's less useful. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235256-how-to-equip-and-what-role/page/2/#findComment-2839773 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babel_Triumphant Posted August 6, 2011 Share Posted August 6, 2011 One of the best things with SG is getting 15+ attacks with rerolls to hit in addition to a bunch of shooting with assault weapons. With furious charge a lot of MEQ enemies will be almost completely wiped by the time they can hit back. Of course, you can always build a specialist squad of SG with dante to bust tanks, but if I'd just give them lots of infernus pistols. With accurate deep striking you can pump a ton of melta into the back armor of some unfortunate vehicle. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235256-how-to-equip-and-what-role/page/2/#findComment-2839823 Share on other sites More sharing options...
toaae Posted August 6, 2011 Share Posted August 6, 2011 But, unfortunately, the SG are kinda wasted on that task. Honorguard decked with meltaguns are cheaper and come with a priest. Also, since the melta range is double that of an infernus pistol, you wouldn't need Dante, since you'd have a pretty good chance of landing within 6". Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235256-how-to-equip-and-what-role/page/2/#findComment-2839826 Share on other sites More sharing options...
knife&fork Posted August 6, 2011 Share Posted August 6, 2011 One of the best things with SG is getting 15+ attacks with rerolls to hit in addition to a bunch of shooting with assault weapons. Remember that it's only one reroll per model. Glaive encarmines are (barring some very specific situations) inferior to both lightning claws and regular power weapons in terms of damage output. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235256-how-to-equip-and-what-role/page/2/#findComment-2839833 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted August 6, 2011 Share Posted August 6, 2011 ICs must move into combat if possible. Moving other models first to block off b2b contact from the Priest is a rules infraction. G :lol: Actually, its not. ICs only have to move first when charged. When charging you can try this perfectly fine. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235256-how-to-equip-and-what-role/page/2/#findComment-2839860 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted August 6, 2011 Share Posted August 6, 2011 If the ICs have to move first then wouldn't you have to place them directly in b2b contact? I like to have one power fist in the squad so I can insta gib enemy ICs or multi charge a squad and tank, putting the power fist against the tank. I have never had a situation where I ended up not having enough PW attacks. G :blush: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235256-how-to-equip-and-what-role/page/2/#findComment-2839900 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted August 6, 2011 Share Posted August 6, 2011 If the ICs have to move first then wouldn't you have to place them directly in b2b contact? I like to have one power fist in the squad so I can insta gib enemy ICs or multi charge a squad and tank, putting the power fist against the tank. I have never had a situation where I ended up not having enough PW attacks. G :blush: ICs only have to move first when charged not when charging. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235256-how-to-equip-and-what-role/page/2/#findComment-2839913 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted August 6, 2011 Share Posted August 6, 2011 Okay thanks for the clarification. G :tu: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235256-how-to-equip-and-what-role/page/2/#findComment-2839946 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted August 6, 2011 Share Posted August 6, 2011 Another note on PFs, I'm definitely one of those guys that work the "jack of all trades" angle. However, Sang Guard are too expensive and too elite (number wise) to work that role. As a result, I figure if they need a fist to get them out of a situation with a dread etc, then ive already lose half the squad. I like all the powerweapons, so when they hit, they hit really hard. I can work them to hit a certain type of unit, and use my DC or big jumpy RAS to S8+ things to death in combat. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235256-how-to-equip-and-what-role/page/2/#findComment-2840107 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted August 7, 2011 Share Posted August 7, 2011 SG are indeed a very small elite unit only lacking an INV save. Take a moment to reflect upon the purpose a power fist can play in the unit. Do you run SG by themselves or do you attach characters? My ultimate unit at 2k points is as follows: Dante Chaplain - power fist Priest - power sword SG - banner, 2x melter pistol, power fist 7 + 5 + 4x4 S5 PW attacks all rerolling to hit on the charge I think that's enough versus most units. At lesser points this is too many eggs laid into one basket but at the 2k level its a wrecking machine and well worth the points for me. Versus parking lots such as IG and razorspam I can come in safe behind cover then pop out the next turn and devastate. The power fists ensure you can destroy multiple tanks on the charge without having to rely solely upon the melters. If you shoot at one tank and destroy it well then you're left hanging in the wind - good luck with that and you'll most likely be needing that luck. The Chaplain with a power fist is excellent at insta gibbing enemy characters... He has two wounds plus the 4++ so most likely he's not going anywhere. I've walked right through squad after squad of killa kanz with this unit. SG can be a deathstar if they can kill everything on the charge and they can do it reliably versus most enemy units if properly equipped with the right support. I like them with Dante as they score and can Hit and Run. The days of TWC has come to an end in competitive play due to the re emergence of dark eldar (poisoned weapons) and GK. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235256-how-to-equip-and-what-role/page/2/#findComment-2840336 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black_Sky Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 I wonder why some of you only field one melta pistol in your sg squads? In my experience a single bs4 shot is far to likely to miss the intended target. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235256-how-to-equip-and-what-role/page/2/#findComment-2842721 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 I wonder why some of you only field one melta pistol in your sg squads? In my experience a single bs4 shot is far to likely to miss the intended target. 10 points for a different model allows you to pull some wound allocation tricks if need be. Also, bs4 nets you 66% chance of getting a hit - so, its "far more likely" to hit the target than it is to miss. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235256-how-to-equip-and-what-role/page/2/#findComment-2842747 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnorriSnorrison Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 In addition, if you add characters equipped with IP(which is a fine weapon for a char) you have one shot with BS 5. That should normally be enough to pop a tank and charge the troops inside. Snorri Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235256-how-to-equip-and-what-role/page/2/#findComment-2842751 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother_Byhlli Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 I ran Dante with a Sanguinary Priest, Librarian with jump pack an Sanguinary Guard with banner and two infernus pistols today and, for the most part, I was very happy with them. My concern with only having one or two infernus pistols isn't just that you have to hit - having penetrated (which you have a very good chance of doing), you still have to destroy the target. Three guns with one at BS5 allows one to miss and gives you two penetrating hits, each with roughly a 50% chance of destroying the vehicle. For the cost of an extra 10 points, giving yourself a 75% chance to burst a tank rather than a 50% chance (exceptionally rough, fly-by-night maths going on there!) is well worth it in my opinion. The Librarian made his money back by providing a 5+ cover save against the inevitable barrage that I took on my squad - Dante and The Librarian were both wounded, sadly, but two of my three Sanguinary Guard survived the plasma template that landed on my head. I'm not convinced by the Chaplain because in my experience, having four attacks on the charge means roughly one miss per model, which is all I'm ever rerolling with my master-crafted power weapons anyway. Post-charge, the number of misses goes down but the number of rerolls stays the same. I'm not convinced I need the additional one or two rerolls that the Chaplain would grant me and that cover save is brilliant. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235256-how-to-equip-and-what-role/page/2/#findComment-2842776 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babel_Triumphant Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 I like Dante's squad to have 4 total Infernus Pistols. 4 Shots is an excellent chance at busting a tank in the rear. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235256-how-to-equip-and-what-role/page/2/#findComment-2842909 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black_Sky Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 I'm in the same boat as Brother_Byhlli. I'd rather have three pistols total, giving me the amount of shots needed to pop the tank before the charge. I can see where you are going with the single pistol for wound allocation. Having a single model to dump two or three no-save wounds on, is a must. As such, I would probably place the second pistol on the banner, as he is hopefully the last one to die. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235256-how-to-equip-and-what-role/page/2/#findComment-2843042 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.