Sanguinor, mephiston, dante and other special characters

[the emperor is scottish]

As ive mentioned in another post here on the blood angel page im fairly new to 40k rules and gaiming wise. anyway how do you rate the blood angels special characters. Im paricularly intrested in the sanguinor and mephiston. How these guys have served you in the past. By all means dont just stop at these two any othere characters youd wish to add your two cents on would also be very cool.

 

Im also intrested in any wee storys you have to share. Mephiston blowing apart a daemon prince? the sanginor going toe to toe with abbadon? tycho pummeling a group of orc boyz to death with their own shoes? Your death company holding the line against impossible odds? let rip and feel free to share past glorys.

[Xenocidal Maniac]

I don't have much experience with the Sanguinor, but, on paper, he looks absolutely beastly and worth every point.

 

Mephiston is just nuts. Retarded powerful. I don't think it's an exaggeration to call him the best offensive model in the whole game. There isn't anything he can't kill. He is a bit squishy with no invulnerable save, but, if your opponent doesn't have much AP 2 shooting, he can be nearly impossible to deal with. I personally think he is worth every point.

[Mr.darkness]

I have only used mephiston once, so this doesn't really have ,much stead to judge him, but he totally failed. I got a first turn charge against a daemon prince, got both psychic powers off,then got stuck in combat until the END of the game. Just stuck there with S10 re rolling hits, but not actually killing the guy. This obviously caused problems as it was only a 1500 pts list, so i had a good amount of my points sunk into him.

 

This is basically a warning, remember that he can fail, and he is a lot of points for that one guy who can flub.

 

As for the others, i only see astorath being useful if you real wanted more DC, which in meta environment you don't.

I have seen Dante used to heat effective with honour guard w/ flamers or meltaguns, deestriking next to a tank/ horde and shooting the :cuss out of it.

Sanguinor is too many points for one guy in my opinion, sure he has eternal warrior but it only takes a little bit of firepower to kill him, so he is not worth it.

I have never used tycho or Seth so i cant comment

[Brother_Byhlli]

My experience of the Blood Angels special characters is limited to one use of Commander Dante in a 1,000 points game when I knew my opponent had a Land Raider and I wanted to land next to it and melt it.

 

In my 1,750 points list, I have three distinct units that can operate individually: two units each with one Honour Guard and two Assault Squads and one unit of Sanguinary Guard, Dante and a Librarian. Dante's unit is intended to drop next to the biggest, toughest, meanest unit the enemy has and slag it. After that they have a cover save and will proceed to absolutely destroy anything in close-combat in subsequent turns.

 

So far as the other characters are concerned, I recently wrote a 1,750 points list I plan to play in a tournament which includes Astorath, a Reclusirach and Lemartes. See if you can work out the bulk of that army! :cuss I'll post results once I've got round to trying it out and let folks know how they get on.

 

I also put up a quick list in another thread that involves Dante and The Sanguinor in a Sanguinary Guard list that I imagine would put a world of hurt on pretty much any army it came up against. It's linked on the main forum - something to do with Sanguinary Guard and Grey Knights. My point in that thread is that Dante and The Sanguinor combine to make one filthy HQ selection. If you choose your army so you can pre-determine your Sergeant for The Sanguinor's blessing, you can find yourself laughing all the way to the winner's podium....

[JamesI]

I disagree with the idea that Astorath's only use is for more DC. Astorath makes it far more likely that units fall to the red thirst, obviously great for the assaulty units, but shooty units benefit by the fearless (attack bikes leadership 8 is their weakness). Then the fact that he is a suped up chaplain (relic blade that forces an invul reroll, artificer armor) he's really worthwhile in non-DC lists.

 

I've only used Mephiston once and DAnte once. I wasn't that impressed with Dante, generally wanting Astorath more. But I'll be testing Dante more.

 

Corbulo is really useful as well.

[Brother_Byhlli]

I disagree with the idea that Astorath's only use is for more DC. Astorath makes it far more likely that units fall to the red thirst, obviously great for the assaulty units, but shooty units benefit by the fearless (attack bikes leadership 8 is their weakness). Then the fact that he is a suped up chaplain (relic blade that forces an invul reroll, artificer armor) he's really worthwhile in non-DC lists.

 

I've only used Mephiston once and DAnte once. I wasn't that impressed with Dante, generally wanting Astorath more. But I'll be testing Dante more.

 

Corbulo is really useful as well.

 

Mhm. I wrote my army list as a wholly-DC list and found that each unit I included that couldn't benefit from Astorath's 50/50 Red Thirst buff made me twitch. As it happens, I'm currently working on merging my Dante-list with my Astorath-list, but I feel they both do too similar a job in an army and I'm not convinced I can justify taking them both.

 

I'd love a reason to take Corbulo, but I mostly see him being useful run in a Sternguard army with Tycho, not least because I refuse to play with vehicles. All of my armies thus far have been jump infantry and Corbulo REALLY doesn't fit into that. :Sad face:

[calgaryBA]

I've used Mephiston and the Sanguinor plenty of times, and currently they're BOTH in my 1750 list, which packs 2 priests, 3 assault squads (2 in rhinos) and a termie assault squad in a storm raven.

 

These 2 fill completely different rolls and work incredibly good together. Send Meph after squishier infantry and tanks, and send the Sanguinor after badass HQ's, and his aura + blessing bolster fights around him (5 powerfist attacks for a sergeant, or 6 attacks, str5, ws5, I6, reroll wound attacks with a termie LC sgt on the assault are insane!). They're both at the very top of their respective rolls, and you can't go wrong with either once you get used to them.

 

I haven't played too many DOA lists, but when i do, Dante is always on there, but never on any other kind of list. Again, he fills a niche roll.

 

The only 2 times I've ran corbulo are when i play a shooty relentless army with tactical terminators and devastators.

 

I used to play with Astoroth simply because his model is one of my favorites in the game, but he's really lack-luster in my opinion for 225 points. His str 6 axe is nice, but with only 3 attacks base, and it's a 2-handed weapon, the pain he dishes out is pretty limited.

 

That's about it for the special characters I've used.

[knife&fork]

I don't have much experience with the Sanguinor, but, on paper, he looks absolutely beastly and worth every point.

 

Mephiston is just nuts. Retarded powerful. I don't think it's an exaggeration to call him the best offensive model in the whole game. There isn't anything he can't kill.

 

He'll come up short vs quite a few Dark eldar, grey knight or Tyranid units. He might be a wrecking ball but you have to be careful when you use him.

[Leonaides]

He is beastly - but not necessarily for waht he does himself. Take 3 or 4 units of RAS - not so scary. Now imagine those RAS are bare-bones vanguard - a lot more scary. The best thing to do with the Sanguinor is to make sure he has friends, lots of friends....

[JamesI]

I disagree with the idea that Astorath's only use is for more DC. Astorath makes it far more likely that units fall to the red thirst, obviously great for the assaulty units, but shooty units benefit by the fearless (attack bikes leadership 8 is their weakness). Then the fact that he is a suped up chaplain (relic blade that forces an invul reroll, artificer armor) he's really worthwhile in non-DC lists.

 

I've only used Mephiston once and DAnte once. I wasn't that impressed with Dante, generally wanting Astorath more. But I'll be testing Dante more.

 

Corbulo is really useful as well.

 

Mhm. I wrote my army list as a wholly-DC list and found that each unit I included that couldn't benefit from Astorath's 50/50 Red Thirst buff made me twitch. As it happens, I'm currently working on merging my Dante-list with my Astorath-list, but I feel they both do too similar a job in an army and I'm not convinced I can justify taking them both.

 

I'd love a reason to take Corbulo, but I mostly see him being useful run in a Sternguard army with Tycho, not least because I refuse to play with vehicles. All of my armies thus far have been jump infantry and Corbulo REALLY doesn't fit into that. :Sad face:

Corbulo works in any mech list. Clearly hard to use in a DOA list.

 

As for AStorath-Dante, I don't think they do similar things. Both are useful, and generally too expensive to play both. I'm working on a list where I can swap the two of them out based on my mood, Astorath sometimes, Dante sometimes. Since their cost is so similar it works.

[Brother_Byhlli]

I'm curious why you would tell me Dante and Astorath don't do similar things and then tell me you're working on a list where they're interchangeable.

 

They absolutely do the same thing. What they do is provide a non-Eternal Warrior HQ that can join units who is powerful in combat with no ranged attacks to speak of.

 

Obviously their nuts and bolts vary somewhat, otherwise Astorath wouldn't exist and Dante would be a 0-2 HQ choice, but they're both essentially unit-leading combat models you have to be more careful with than you'd really like.

[JamesI]

I'm curious why you would tell me Dante and Astorath don't do similar things and then tell me you're working on a list where they're interchangeable.

 

They absolutely do the same thing. What they do is provide a non-Eternal Warrior HQ that can join units who is powerful in combat with no ranged attacks to speak of.

 

Obviously their nuts and bolts vary somewhat, otherwise Astorath wouldn't exist and Dante would be a 0-2 HQ choice, but they're both essentially unit-leading combat models you have to be more careful with than you'd really like.

 

 

Well, I'm considering their abilities. Hit and Run, precise strike, Dante's curse versus improved red thirst, strength 6, rerolls to hit. Dante makes a unit a dangerous threat to deepstrike and kill a tank, Astorath and his unit are more of a threat to infantry due to their rerolls.

 

But, yes, they are both ICs who make a squad nastier and it really just comes down to which set of buffs you like better.

[Brother_Byhlli]

I'm curious why you would tell me Dante and Astorath don't do similar things and then tell me you're working on a list where they're interchangeable.

 

They absolutely do the same thing. What they do is provide a non-Eternal Warrior HQ that can join units who is powerful in combat with no ranged attacks to speak of.

 

Obviously their nuts and bolts vary somewhat, otherwise Astorath wouldn't exist and Dante would be a 0-2 HQ choice, but they're both essentially unit-leading combat models you have to be more careful with than you'd really like.

 

 

Well, I'm considering their abilities. Hit and Run, precise strike, Dante's curse versus improved red thirst, strength 6, rerolls to hit. Dante makes a unit a dangerous threat to deepstrike and kill a tank, Astorath and his unit are more of a threat to infantry due to their rerolls.

 

But, yes, they are both ICs who make a squad nastier and it really just comes down to which set of buffs you like better.

 

Yup. Though one reason I take Dante is fluff; another is the model. I've never heard of Astorath. He's who? The high chaplain? Since when? Since Sanguinius died? Says who? Matt Ward? Ahhhhh, suddenly all is clear. And I know a lot of people like his model. I despise it. I think it's one of the worst models I've seen in Games Workshop. Sadly, so is The Sanguinor.

 

The list I'm planning will probably use Dante and a Librarian as the HQ choices and a Chaplain as the reroll supplier to a Death Company. My feeling is that Astorath's buff is lessened by being able to take it on a Recusiarch, Chaplain or Lemartes. He's good in combat no doubt, but so is Dante and Dante comes with buffs that aren't possible to recreate.

 

Don't get me wrong - I'm not trying to persuade or convert you. I'm not saying you're wrong. We're both agreeing that Dante and Astorath are viable choices that depend on what you prefer. I'm just saying why I prefer Dante.

 

Huh, weird. A conversation on B&C that didn't involve conflict....

 

^_^

[Xenocidal Maniac]

And I know a lot of people like his model. I despise it. I think it's one of the worst models I've seen in Games Workshop. Sadly, so is The Sanguinor.

 

I agree, but don't let this stop you. I made my own counts-as Sanguinor and Astorath using the awesome DC and Sang Guard boxes.

[JamesI]

I'm curious why you would tell me Dante and Astorath don't do similar things and then tell me you're working on a list where they're interchangeable.

 

They absolutely do the same thing. What they do is provide a non-Eternal Warrior HQ that can join units who is powerful in combat with no ranged attacks to speak of.

 

Obviously their nuts and bolts vary somewhat, otherwise Astorath wouldn't exist and Dante would be a 0-2 HQ choice, but they're both essentially unit-leading combat models you have to be more careful with than you'd really like.

 

 

Well, I'm considering their abilities. Hit and Run, precise strike, Dante's curse versus improved red thirst, strength 6, rerolls to hit. Dante makes a unit a dangerous threat to deepstrike and kill a tank, Astorath and his unit are more of a threat to infantry due to their rerolls.

 

But, yes, they are both ICs who make a squad nastier and it really just comes down to which set of buffs you like better.

 

Yup. Though one reason I take Dante is fluff; another is the model. I've never heard of Astorath. He's who? The high chaplain? Since when? Since Sanguinius died? Says who? Matt Ward? Ahhhhh, suddenly all is clear. And I know a lot of people like his model. I despise it. I think it's one of the worst models I've seen in Games Workshop. Sadly, so is The Sanguinor.

 

The list I'm planning will probably use Dante and a Librarian as the HQ choices and a Chaplain as the reroll supplier to a Death Company. My feeling is that Astorath's buff is lessened by being able to take it on a Recusiarch, Chaplain or Lemartes. He's good in combat no doubt, but so is Dante and Dante comes with buffs that aren't possible to recreate.

 

Don't get me wrong - I'm not trying to persuade or convert you. I'm not saying you're wrong. We're both agreeing that Dante and Astorath are viable choices that depend on what you prefer. I'm just saying why I prefer Dante.

 

Huh, weird. A conversation on B&C that didn't involve conflict....

 

^_^

 

There is still time to fight. ;)

 

Personally, I dislike the Astorath model (though I love his jump pack, used it on my home made Dante). I made my own Astorath model, not as a chaplain but to represent my chapters Chapter Master. So I can ignore Astorath's fluff entirely (now I don't mind the changes in the fluff, but I wish Astorath had just been left High Chaplain and ignored the whole traveling around killing DC stuff) But then I don't play Blood Angels, I play a successor chapter so my Dante isn't the real Dante but the Head of my Sanguinary Guard.

[Ranwulf]

Blood Angels special characters are good, but people have a strange belief that they are unstopabble. That is wrong, they hit like a truck, that is true, but they have key weakness that will destroy them if you don't use them right. Blood Angels are not an "assault everything = win" army, playing them requires a good knowledge of your own army and of the opponent.

 

Ok, so here is my analysis:

 

Mephiston, the Lord of Death:

 

I love this guy, but he is NOT superman. He is not invunerable. Offensively, he is awesome, can kill 5 Marines with a nice roll.

But he can also die to a Grey Hunter squad with two powerfists, terminator squads, Demon Princes... If your enemy can negate his special snowflake advantages, which are his toughness in this case, you can say good bye to him. Not only that, he doens't have Eternal Warrior, so even Khan can kill him! Not only that his lack of Inv. Save makes him a good Plasma target.

 

Wanna use him? Sure, but get a squad alongside him to put some pressure and also be his walking cover saves (can be a Vechile too, which is nice be cause he can hide behind them).

 

Astorath the Grim:

 

EXCELLENT.

 

First of all he benefits your whole army with Red Thirst half the time.

 

Second, he is a special hard hitting chaplain. Not only he benefits your squad with re-rolls, but he hit like a truck with his Str. 6 Power Weapon and WS 6. He is specially good against those nasty terminators that have to re-roll Inv. saves. Be careful to Instant killing attacks though.

 

Commander Dante:

 

He is less a hard hitter, but a benefical HQ to your army. He requires finesse and tactics, but if you use him well, he can break enemies plans.

 

Pinpoint Deepstrike allows him to get that nice squad of Honour Guard full of plasmas and meltas right where you want.

 

Hit and Run allows you to restrike your enemy and kill him with a nice Furious Charge attack. Also, it helps keeping him alive.

 

His Death Mask not only manages to weaken your HQ opponent, but also can make his charges devastating.

 

Careful with Instant Death strikes though.

 

Sanguinor:

 

He is... expensive and can be easily killed by concetrated small arms fire. In close combat he is not as good as Mephiston that can break tanks apart, but his Inv. Save can keep him alive. I don't like him, and find him difficult to use. He does benefits your army, but in a small way, and he is not as beasty in CC as Mephy but can sure as hell hold his own. I find he good against Grey Knights though.

 

Gabriel Seth:

 

Never used, seems fun, but I wouldn't use him for competitive battles, you have better choices.

 

Lemartes:

 

LOVE HIM. If you can include him in your DC , get him. Since the stormravens, I use him everytime I get the chance. First he is not an Ind. Character, which means he can't be target in CC, second, his 7 Str. 5 attacks that re-roll to hit and to wound on the charge? Amazing. And he benefits DC the same way.

 

Ran

[calgaryBA]

...Sanguinor:

 

He is... expensive and can be easily killed by concetrated small arms fire. In close combat he is not as good as Mephiston that can break tanks apart, but his Inv. Save can keep him alive. I don't like him, and find him difficult to use. He does benefits your army, but in a small way, and he is not as beasty in CC as Mephy but can sure as hell hold his own. I find he good against Grey Knights though....

 

I'm going to have to disagree with your assessment of how much he can benefit an army.

 

He may not be AS good as Mephiston in combat vs ordinary troops (or tanks...), but he still plows through them anyways. Where the Sanguior shines is in combat vs the big nasty units and HQ's (find me somebody who took down a swarm lord + guard with Meph). He is still str 5 base, and has his OWN furious charge, bringing him up to str 6 on the charge, still wounding T4 on 2's, but also rerolling all hits and all wounds in every round of combat, vs the HQ unit of your choice. Given his high WS and str, chances are good that you'll land almost everything.

 

His aura of +1 attacks is ungodly if you run a list with several squads, turning even regular assault marines into powerhouses, and specialized units like assault terminats, SG, HG, etc... into mortal wrecking balls.

 

He's also got this little blessing thing (my favorite). Randomly select a sergeant to recieve, +1 WS, +1A, +1W, +1I. If a simple assault sergeant with a fist (like everybody uses) gets this blessing and is around the Sanguinor, suddenly the lowly sergeant has 5 powerfist attacks on the charge with WS5, and 2 wounds. (bwhahaha) I've yet to have an opponent not want to go over why I'm rolling so many PF dice. Then you can play around with units that also have a chapter banner in them, or a terminator sergeant with LC's to take advantage of the initiative if they get selected. There's lots of possibilities. You basically get a mini HQ, that doesn't go away if the Sanguinor dies.

[Brother Chris]

I always field Dante and Mephiston unless I have some campaign-based story reason not to do so. I love the fluff - they are the essence of the blood angels to me, the gleaming golden angel and the sinister brooding vampire. Dante's model is brilliant, and even if Mephiston doesn't live up to his illustrations I still rather like him. I dispise Astorath and Sanguinor as they simply duplicate these architypes, are not part of previously established fluff - Astorath particularly usurps the role of archetypal DC chaplain from Lemartes. So even if they were the best things since sliced bread, I would never use them.

 

(If GW Historical brought out finecast Baron Voudou who buffs the Old Guard up to blood-crazed zombies and Marshal Loup who transforms Cuirassers into Berserk Wolf riders, they would still not be replacing my Napoleon and Marshal Ney at Waterloo no matter how many 1,500 games they won, and I try to treat 40K with the same kind of Fluff reverence no matter what new models GW try to sell me)

 

Corbulo is an excellent special character. His see into the future power is very useful.

 

I'm not a mini-maxing '3 meltas and a reclusiarch in a razorback is five points cheaper than Dante and scores 0.75% compound intrest hits on MEQ' kind of player, so no idea if Dante and Mephiston are good from that point of view, but a jump-packed CC squad (usually his HG for me) led by Dante causes serious close combat problems for an opponent and can extricate itself if things get nasty. If you use SG, they can score too.

[Forgefather Vulkan]

Personally i've only had relatively small games with my blood angels and have only used Seth and Astorath but i think Seth is a really over looked great choice, i think largely due to no power weapon etc....

 

BUUUUTTTT... the guy has a S8 chainsword that strikes at I5, that's pretty good i my opinion, i've had the dude kill a chaplain and a captain without taking a scratch. I definitely recommend him!

 

Forgefather

[Volcatus]

I'm going to +1 Corbulo. He makes a fantastic baby sitter for Devastators, and the re-roll is handy when you remember to use it.

 

Dante gets the nod from me over Astorath for the simple reason of making SG scoring. Don't overlook this. :) If D didn't have this ability, he would be a pure wash with Asto, as stated earlier. With it, he adds a reliable and useful FOC shift to a DoA list that includes SG.

[billga]

I agree with a lot of the posts that have been made so far in that I feel Dante/Astorath are situational (but very good at certain situations), Mephiston is a BEAST when properly supported, Sanguinor is, well, a different kind of SC that is truely dependent on your personal tastes and play-styles (an excellent tar pit though). Lemartes is probably the strongest character IMHO due solely on the fact that he is a unit upgrade. Corbulo I like in big games because of the re-roll, but otherwise he just doesn't do anything to justify his very high price (again IMHO). All in all I think the Codex got a very good mix of characters, each with their own personality and traits, and that I think, is a good thing :)

[Brother_Byhlli]

I agree with a lot of the posts that have been made so far in that I feel Dante/Astorath are situational (but very good at certain situations), Mephiston is a BEAST when properly supported, Sanguinor is, well, a different kind of SC that is truely dependent on your personal tastes and play-styles (an excellent tar pit though). Lemartes is probably the strongest character IMHO due solely on the fact that he is a unit upgrade. Corbulo I like in big games because of the re-roll, but otherwise he just doesn't do anything to justify his very high price (again IMHO). All in all I think the Codex got a very good mix of characters, each with their own personality and traits, and that I think, is a good thing :huh:

 

Definitely, I pretty much agree with this.

 

It's worth pointing out, too, that we can essentially have four HQ choices: by taking two HQs, Corbulo and Lemartes, we have four special characters all of whom provide their own benefits to the army. Nifty!

[Coopervisor]

I have only used mephiston once, so this doesn't really have ,much stead to judge him, but he totally failed. I got a first turn charge against a daemon prince, got both psychic powers off,then got stuck in combat until the END of the game. Just stuck there with S10 re rolling hits, but not actually killing the guy. This obviously caused problems as it was only a 1500 pts list, so i had a good amount of my points sunk into him.

 

This is basically a warning, remember that he can fail, and he is a lot of points for that one guy who can flub.

 

I had the exact opposite problem! I charged a daemon prince, cast both sword and rage and ended up killing him before he even swung back at me. This left me in a horrid position and I got shot to pieces very quickly the following shooting phase ;)

 

I'll use Mephiston every now and again, but Dante is the one I pick every time. Not amazing in combat, but with I6 he often gets to swing first and backed by sanguinary guard, he'll cause a large dent in what ever they charge. Just be careful of any hidden powerfists as his 4++ and no eternal warrior makes him vulnerable. Crippling an IC is also pretty good, reducing psychics by a wound before you even start can make them think before spamming powers.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Here is my take on some of the special characters.

 

Dante

- Expensive

- Best used in DoA lists

- Take advantage of Sanguinary Guard as scoring units

- Lots of buffs

 

If you're going to field him I think he works best with a squad of Sanguinary Guard (2x melter pistol) and a Priest. His Hit and Run can catch your opponents by surprise and the curse works great versus assault based armies.

 

Mephiston

- Expensive

- Best used in mech lists

- Close combat powerhouse

 

People have learned how to effectively counter him and he is very weak versus Grey Knights.

 

The Sanguinor

-Expensive

- Best used in DoA lists

- Close combat power house

- Lots of buffs

 

This is my favorite character from the codex. If you find he is getting shot up by small arms fire then you're not playing him right. He has more staying power than Mephiston and is fearless as well.

 

Astorath

- Expensive

- Best used in a DoA list

- Some good buffs

 

I have only used him once for a pure DoA army so I don't have much experience using this character.

 

I play DoA so I'll rank the special characters with jump packs based upon my experience:

 

1. The Sanguinor

2. Dante

3. Astorath

 

The Sanguinor and Dante work very well together if you're willing to pay the points. You'll have a small army but it will hit like a lead pipe in close combat.

 

G

[SevenExxes]

The only special characters I don't own are Corbulo and Tycho.

But the only one I have used is Lemartes.

 

Just imagine throwing a brick through a window and that's Lemartes.