Sanguinor, mephiston, dante and other special characters

[TheAvengingKnee]

Dante

- Expensive

- Best used in DoA lists

- Take advantage of Sanguinary Guard as scoring units

- Lots of buffs

 

If you're going to field him I think he works best with a squad of Sanguinary Guard (2x melter pistol) and a Priest. His Hit and Run can catch your opponents by surprise and the curse works great versus assault based armies.

 

I have been having decent luck with Dante a priest a squad of guards with melta pistols(w/ standard bearer) and a libby (unleash rage/Sanguin shield) they seem to be pretty good at taking down the greater daemons I end up fighting or they can be very good at popping vehicles and then assaulting the stuff inside. I know it amazed the CSM player I played last knight when Dante Charged his greater daemon and went first.

[Zhukov]

Astorath is severly overpriced for what he does. Basicly he's a slightly more killy Chaplain which hands out questionable buffs to you army. Questionable, yes: Being Fearless isn't necessarily good and you should still have Priests around for FC. (it's not like he also hands out FnP and it's not like 50% isn't still horribly random)

 

Dante is... okay'ish. Not being an eternal warrior simply means that his 4 Wounds isn't as impressive as it could have been. Apart from that he's good, but still really expensive. Now this is especially a problem as Sanguinary Guard are also really expensive. Result? Dante is pretty much for 2000+ points games I feel. Below that and it's hard to make a competitive list with him.

 

Mephiston. Fine inclusion for 1750+ points Mech lists. Below that and your whole list begins to really depend on his performance, which isn't the safest thing you can do. Certain armies have no problem with him whatsover, so the rest of your list needs to compensate for that. Which armies are those? Dark Eldar and Mechdar. The fact that many people name Grey Knights as a bad matchup for Mephistion amuses me heh. What are all those guys doing, letting him get charged by something which can instakill him lol? This guy is near unkillable for GK when played well, because they almost got no ranged Ap1/Ap2.

 

Sanguinor. Rubbish. 275 points people, seriously. He dies, this has nothing to do with 'knowing how to play with him'. You can't hide him all the game behind terrain, because then he wont do anything. Yay, he has a 3++! Oh, so then he's as survivable as 3 TH/SS Terminators... Raise your hand who can't kill 3 TH/SS terminators.

Now this isn't the only problem: 3 wounds is not only 'not enough', it's also unreliable... Yes, I actually had him die 2 times because I rolled below average for his first saves. Bad luck? No, rolling below average is normal and it just hurts when it happens for a 275 points, 3 wounds, non IC guy.

 

Tycho: Semi-usefull gear + abilities, but too expensive in the end. Would have liked him for 150 points or so.

 

Corbulo: Fine. Only Priests which practicly can't be torrented out of squads due to having 2 wounds and an excellen save. Excells in a Terminator + Land Raider unit.

 

Seth: Fine Captain, S8 at possibly I6 is nothing to sneeze at. Unfortunately Captains aren't too hot to begin with... Semi-usefull for an agressive Mech list.

[Son Of Moriar]

Astorath is severly overpriced for what he does. Basicly he's a slightly more killy Chaplain which hands out questionable buffs to you army. Questionable, yes: Being Fearless isn't necessarily good and you should still have Priests around for FC. (it's not like he also hands out FnP and it's not like 50% isn't still horribly random)

 

Hello?? Let's see; Re-roll invul saves :) and lets not forget the whole removing the 0-1 Death company limit!! Worth the points for that alone...........

 

I run Astorath and 5 in a Raven with a talon'd Dread for company... Chop Hack Slash Kill etc etc etc also another squad with Lemartes just to throw another fly in the ointment.

 

The only problem I have is needing another Raven but hey watching your opponent as the Red + Black Attack takes to the field is priceless

[calgaryBA]

Sanguinor. Rubbish. 275 points people, seriously. He dies, this has nothing to do with 'knowing how to play with him'. You can't hide him all the game behind terrain, because then he wont do anything. Yay, he has a 3++! Oh, so then he's as survivable as 3 TH/SS Terminators... Raise your hand who can't kill 3 TH/SS terminators.

Now this isn't the only problem: 3 wounds is not only 'not enough', it's also unreliable... Yes, I actually had him die 2 times because I rolled below average for his first saves. Bad luck? No, rolling below average is normal and it just hurts when it happens for a 275 points, 3 wounds, non IC guy.

 

Several people besides myself have expressed our thoughts that he's the #1 guy for us, so he's definitely not as bad as you make him out to be. Just because you've had bad luck with him doesn't make him "rubbish". Those 3 little wounds are a lot tougher to take off than people give credit for, and the amount that he can buff an army or at least part of the game is far beyond anything else available.

 

Say that he's in range of a couple assault squads who get the charge off. Now your making 20 more attacks at str5 I5, and more than likely a few of those are PF attacks. He also buffs up a sergeant permanently for +1ws, +1w, +1A, +1I, and if the Sanguinor dies, you still have this guy!

 

And find me somebody better for taking out the really big nasty HQ's in combat, he's far beyond anything else in the codex for this.

[Brother_Byhlli]

I have been having decent luck with Dante a priest a squad of guards with melta pistols(w/ standard bearer) and a libby (unleash rage/Sanguin shield) they seem to be pretty good at taking down the greater daemons I end up fighting or they can be very good at popping vehicles and then assaulting the stuff inside. I know it amazed the CSM player I played last knight when Dante Charged his greater daemon and went first.

 

That is the absolute exact unit I'm planning on running in my 2,000 point games. Can't fit it in to 1,750 at the moment, but at 2,000 points it's golden!

[calgaryBA]

I have been having decent luck with Dante a priest a squad of guards with melta pistols(w/ standard bearer) and a libby (unleash rage/Sanguin shield) they seem to be pretty good at taking down the greater daemons I end up fighting or they can be very good at popping vehicles and then assaulting the stuff inside. I know it amazed the CSM player I played last knight when Dante Charged his greater daemon and went first.

 

That is the absolute exact unit I'm planning on running in my 2,000 point games. Can't fit it in to 1,750 at the moment, but at 2,000 points it's golden!

 

Dante - 225

priest - jp - 75

libby - jp - 125

guard - banner - 230

 

= 655 points?! Wow! That's one hell of an expensive unit! What does the mere 1345 get for the rest of your army? The most I've done in 1 unit was a 6 man VV squad at around 400 points...

[Brother_Byhlli]

I have been having decent luck with Dante a priest a squad of guards with melta pistols(w/ standard bearer) and a libby (unleash rage/Sanguin shield) they seem to be pretty good at taking down the greater daemons I end up fighting or they can be very good at popping vehicles and then assaulting the stuff inside. I know it amazed the CSM player I played last knight when Dante Charged his greater daemon and went first.

 

That is the absolute exact unit I'm planning on running in my 2,000 point games. Can't fit it in to 1,750 at the moment, but at 2,000 points it's golden!

 

Dante - 225

priest - jp - 75

libby - jp - 125

guard - banner - 230

 

= 655 points?! Wow! That's one hell of an expensive unit! What does the mere 1345 get for the rest of your army? The most I've done in 1 unit was a 6 man VV squad at around 400 points...

 

Actually, looking at it again, I lied. I don't have that Sanguinary Priest in the unit, which has been giving me conniptions recently. I realise we're not in a list-discussion thread, so very quickly and very much in brief, this is what I'm running:

 

Dante, Librarian, Honour Guard, Honour Guard, Sanguinary Guard, Assault Squad, Assault Squad, Assault Squad, Assault Squad.

 

The army's split into three elements: Dante, Librarian and Sanguinary Guard are going to deep-strike turn two or three and destroy the nastiest tank I can see. If there's no tank worth taking out, they'll start on the table. The two Honour Guard both have four meltaguns and are preceded across the table by two Assault Squads each, creating forty Feel No Pain Furious Charge assault-oriented Space Marines. In fact, I changed the equipment on the list around slightly and I have a spare fifty points. If I can drop a few more, I'll buy that Sanguinary Priest for Dante and his crowd.

 

Also, you talk about it being one unit but you need to remember that it's actually three units - four with the Sanguinary Priest. They can be split up and moved around the army as I need. In actual fact, not one single unit - or kill point, if you prefer - in my army costs over 250 points. The list's designed to work in self-sufficient units that can interchange and support each other. It's extremely fast, extremely hard-hitting and extremely flexible. I'm bringing plenty of melta and plasma to take on the nastier units and my weight of close-combat attacks will cause most armies to have serious problems. Because I don't have any particularly obvious massive targets, I'm not giving my opponent anything to point his melta or lascannons at.

 

Obviously it has weaknesses; what army doesn't? *Shrugs*

[Zhukov]

Hello?? Let's see; Re-roll invul saves :P and lets not forget the whole removing the 0-1 Death company limit!! Worth the points for that alone...........

If you like him or want more DC units or whatever else reason you have, by all means take him! I'm just giving my opinion from a competitive point of view. Some people would like to know that.

 

 

Several people besides myself have expressed our thoughts that he's the #1 guy for us, so he's definitely not as bad as you make him out to be.

How is this a valid argument? Loads of people on other forums have also expressed how rubbish he is, does that make me right? Of course not. I believe many people would like to believe he's good, because he's a cool and cheap (monewise compared to amount of points you add to your army) unit. I like him, I do use him sometimes, but for fun only. I don't fool myself by thinking he's good.

 

 

Just because you've had bad luck with him doesn't make him "rubbish". Those 3 little wounds are a lot tougher to take off than people give credit for, and the amount that he can buff an army or at least part of the game is far beyond anything else available.

 

Say that he's in range of a couple assault squads who get the charge off. Now your making 20 more attacks at str5 I5, and more than likely a few of those are PF attacks. He also buffs up a sergeant permanently for +1ws, +1w, +1A, +1I, and if the Sanguinor dies, you still have this guy!

 

And find me somebody better for taking out the really big nasty HQ's in combat, he's far beyond anything else in the codex for this.

Explain to me, how are 3 T4 wounds on a guy which you can't hide in a squad tough? Please enlighten me. Again: Raise your hands if you can't kill 3 TH/SS Terminators in 1 round of shooting with your army.

 

The rest of your arguments therefore don't matter: No matter how killy he is or how sweet his +1 attack aura is (it both is, he would have been good with 4 wounds and excellent with 5 wounds), if he's dead then it all doesn't matter.

 

Don't get me wrong, I don't say you can't win games with him or that he can't perform well ever. I'm just saying that for competitive play he is rubbish, as you want consistency in your army for that. He's not a consistent performer: Sometimes he's great, other times he's basicly 275 points gone. Wait... I didn't say that I ment it for competitive play in my previous post did I? Sorry for that, if that wasn't clear (:

 

Oh and read my previous argument again: I did not have bad luck with him. You can't expect to roll average all the time, that's not how dice work.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Well it sounds like you're not using him the right way. He is one of the better special characters. He has high initiative and strength coupled with a solid number of attacks - he is very good in close combat (obviously). If you find he dies quickly then probably you're not supporting him. He can fight solo but does even more damage when there is another unit assisting him in close combat.

 

G

[calgaryBA]

I've yet to have him ever die in 1 round of shooting. The most I've lost is 2 wounds from that. I have however lost almost anything else you can name in 1 round of shooting.

[JamesI]

I can understand what Zhukov is saying.

 

Astorath is one of my favorites, but for truly competitive playing he is at best inconsistent. I've had games where my whole army fell to the red thirst, some where no one did (despite having 8 rolls, and a 50% chance). There is a reason Astorath isn't generally in lists I take to tournaments, but I use him a lot at friendly play.

 

I don't have any experience using the Sanguinor, but I understand what everyone is saying. Zhukov is saying he's not consistent enough. Only 3 wounds, toughness 4 he will go down. When he works, great. But he's awful expensive for what he does (my opinion based on not playtesting him yet)

[Zhukov]

If you find he dies quickly then probably you're not supporting him. He can fight solo but does even more damage when there is another unit assisting him in close combat.

But he dies to shooting... you are talking about close combat here.

 

So again: Tell me how you manage that he doesnt die to shooting. Be honest to yourself: Are your oppenents really good players who play with excellent lists? Or are they maybe a bit more casual players? (nothing wrong with that of course! But I hope thats clear)

 

Because honestly, a few Las/Plas Razorbacks shooting at him will see him dead. You simply cannot deny this...

 

Because that's the whole issue: I get that some people claim that Dante is very survivable. Why? Because you can actually avoid the things which will kill him to an extent. (simply dont put him against things which can instant death him, which is managable when he's hiding in a unit) But how are you arguing that Sanguinor doesn't die easily compared to his points? He can't hide in a squad...

 

So please enlighten me, because this 'you don't know how to use him' argument of yours just doesn't cut it. If this is true, please show me how to use him properly. How do I make sure he doesnt die to shooting against all the Shooting based armies out there, without having accomplished much in the progress.

[calgaryBA]

If you find he dies quickly then probably you're not supporting him. He can fight solo but does even more damage when there is another unit assisting him in close combat.

But he dies to shooting... you are talking about close combat here.

 

So again: Tell me how you manage that he doesnt die to shooting. Be honest to yourself: Are your oppenents really good players who play with excellent lists? Or are they maybe a bit more casual players? (nothing wrong with that of course! But I hope thats clear)

 

 

Your entire argument is that he can die to shooting. If you're afraid of that, then i have bad news for you, everything in the entire game can die to shooting. He is not some how more susceptible to being blasted off the board than anything else.

 

Just like Mephiston, he's a single model unit, the size of a space marine, you can hide him behind damn near anything (wings don't count, you need to see some part of his actual body, even a toe). People (myself included) spew out Meph praises, and nobody seems to be worried about how vulnerable he is to being shot, and he's even more so without a natural 3++. Toughness makes no difference to str 8, 9, 10 weapons with AP1/2, they all wound on a 2, and the Sanguinor can shrug off 2/3 of them. Sure he's more susceptible to small arms fire, but he's still 2+ armor with far more than likely FNP on top of that. It would take a retarded amount of small arms fire to take down 3 wounds through that.

 

As for BO's opponents, find me a major tournament he hasn't competed in.

[Babel_Triumphant]

I would like to add that Sanguinor does have some added survivability over TH/SS terminators. Against shooting attacks, he's a smaller target with far more mobility, allowing him to more effectively stay out of the LOS of dangerous units. And in melee, he's more survivable due to the ability to strike first with high initiative and eliminate some enemy attacks prematurely as well as being a bit harder to hit because of high WS.

[Son of Rawl]

I would like to try a list with Tycho can anyone share there experiance with this dude if any

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Here is how I've successfully used the Sanguinor. He starts in reserve then deep strikes behind a piece of LOS blocking terrain when he arrives from reserve. That right there should prevent him from being torrented to death by smalls arm fire. Sure he is only T4 but on the other hand he is basically a flying assault terminator with much better stats and abilities. A DoA army is all about aggressive right in your oppoent's face style of play. You've got a lot of highly mobile units dropping in close to the enemy line. If you saturate an area of the board with a good number of units then your opponent must decide what to shoot first and if you do it right then maybe old Sanguinor won't be so high on the list. Once he gets into close combat he is safe as can be - that's where you want him the most, right?

 

I have a good track record with my army and have played in several big events across the US over the past two years so no my experience is not based upon going down to the FLGS and pounding on n00bs. I don't even know why you wanted to bring that up really. I think if a poster can express a good set of tactics and strategies it's merit is good enough and doesn't need to be bolstered by quoting tourney records.

 

G :D

[Crynn]

Here is how I've successfully used the Sanguinor. He starts in reserve then deep strikes behind a piece of LOS blocking terrain when he arrives from reserve. That right there should prevent him from being torrented to death by smalls arm fire. Sure he is only T4 but on the other hand he is basically a flying assault terminator with much better stats and abilities. A DoA army is all about aggressive right in your oppoent's face style of play. You've got a lot of highly mobile units dropping in close to the enemy line. If you saturate an area of the board with a good number of units then your opponent must decide what to shoot first and if you do it right then maybe old Sanguinor won't be so high on the list. Once he gets into close combat he is safe as can be - that's where you want him the most, right?

 

I have a good track record with my army and have played in several big events across the US over the past two years so no my experience is not based upon going down to the FLGS and pounding on n00bs. I don't even know why you wanted to bring that up really. I think if a poster can express a good set of tactics and strategies it's merit is good enough and doesn't need to be bolstered by quoting tourney records.

 

G ;)

 

I personally disagree with this method. This offers at best a 3rd turn charge with the sang, and this hinges on some line of fight blocking terrain as well. I generally agree with Zhukov in his staements about the sang. I do believe he can be usefull though I think like meph he needs a meph wall to hide behind or at least a few vehicles to guide him into combat. a 3 wound model with at best 3++ isnt going to last and is very easy to take down considering his costs. Now despite what people will have you believe sanguinor whilst a good character in the right hands is no better character killer than meph, infact in most cases he is actually not as good. for instacne any character without eternal warrion is far weaker versus mephiston, abaddon dies quicker to meph although the fight is very close, even the sang dies to meph 1v1. (I'm not argueing the math it is correct, it is all due to mephs i7) This does not make the sang bad I am just lending wait to meph as a character killer. Meph is also considerably tougher than the sang, again math left out there are threads on thsi go look them up. Now the sang does have his little bough which when combined with assault squads is great he is a good bubble to help base an assault around. I tend to run him behind a land raider full of dc with a elite chaplain. 5 attacks the dc and chap put out 50 attacks rerolling hits and wounts str 5 i5 it is disgusting.

 

So for these chars that can't join squads, make sure they have a chassis to run behind. Now on to other characters.

 

Dante - He is a good character, not hyper competitive but with a tactical hand can be very annoying. deepstrike is good sang guard as troops is meh and he has to worry about instant death, his mask is good but he himself is rather average in combat. hit and run is his best ability and funnily enough works best with dc as they use the charge more than any unit. pitty dc with packs are crap. However you can run hiw with honour guard or sang guard then during the movement phase add him to the unit so thatthey may disengage in the enemies turn for another charge. his death mask is usefull as his ability to absorb ap 1 + 2 fire for HG and sang guard. A little expensive for what he brings though.

 

Meph - excellent - slight nerf last FAQ not being able to recast powers hurt. Note he has a psychic hood and this is an army buff, it helps alot, do not think the sang has a army buff and meph does not, not only that Meph is great gainst GKs, use him corectly and time his attack to finish units off so they cannot attack back. he will null hammer hands on any of their squads 60% of the time so most can barely scratch him with force weapons and then have to pass the test. His psychic hood is a pain to them. Just o not crash him into ten man units.

 

The Sang - Can be good as discussed just don't pretend him leading at the front of your army with his 3++ is going keep him alive for more than one round of shooting.

 

Astorath - Thankyou Zhukov for what most competitive BA players know, he's is over priced and brings little to nothing except for removing the limit on DC. his buff only works 50% of the time which is only an aditional 33% of getting what a sang priest gives you anyway. fearless is good and bad. Despite what people think 3 str 6 power weapon attacks that make you reroll invuls is actually meh for 220 pts.

 

Seth - wow a maybe i6 str 8 attack that could ID a char that doesnt have eternal warrior, then fails his invuln on your rend which you may get or fails his 2+ normal save. All this and no army buff for 160 pts? No thanks. So you can whirlwind fast vehicles for one auto hit, 1/3 chance to actualy kill if you penetrate. this character is fun but there is a reason he is never in a competitive list.

 

Tycho - not :) just too expensive for anything that is all. has a good gun an ok combat attack ld 10 buff, would have been good on a 120 -130 pt character. 175 points is just beyond his worth.

 

DC Tycho - One of the worst characters in the game, I would literally give him to any opponent for free in a kill point game, 2 lascannon wound dead, maybe even just 1.

 

Corbulo - good. Consider his uses. he can munch his way through any unit without power weapons and he is a priest with an additional wound attack +1 str and rending. great his reroll can be very usefull, imobilized land raider on terrain? easy fix. need maph to get his wings off. need to kill that tank with that melta but rolled a 3 on 2d6. time his ability right and he is excellent.

 

Lemartes - good. DC with packs crap. however if you are one of theose people who likes storm ravens fill one with DC with no packs and lemartes and go have fun. He can be a monster. If he had no JP i'd take him in competitive list (only because I don't like ravens does he miss out at the moment)

 

The hard truth is not ever special character is good, most are actually bad when you are competing with 100 point libs.

 

Regards,

 

Crynn

[Blindhamster]

just too expensive for anything that is all. has a good gun an ok combat attack ld 10 buff, would have been good on a 120 -130 pt character

 

seriously? :S his wargear (if taken in the space marine codex) puts him at 140. He then gets army wide Ld10 which is a pretty useful rull at times, preferred enemy against orks and to top it off Sternguard Ammo Options (which have been a life saver for me repeatedly). I agree he's probably a bit expensive, but even if he was 150-160 he'd be worth it. Compare him to codex marine HQs of a similar points cost and he is about right in fairness

 

The two mini characters (corbulo and lemartes) are both unsuprisingly good, they're cheap and add useful things to whichever squad they're in. The main benefit of them is that they're cheap though.

 

I've loved using Dante ever since I built my Dante model, backed up by a priest and honourguard or sangguard he's actually a bit of a monster. 7 attacks at Initiative 7 Strength 5 with a reroll on the charge is nice. He's won more combats for me than I'd care to count and happily butchered ork mega bosses and Chaos lords repeatedly. His only really big issue is the lack of eternal warrior. Eventually he's going to die as theres only so long before the enemy gets the charge and you have an opening to dante.

 

Mephy is a monster but the lack of independant character makes me avoid using him, Matt Ward really did a number on us giving us THREE characters that lack such an important rule. especially as two of them are horribly expensive... But anyway, Meph is a wrecking ball and in one on one combat he's rarely going to lose. Having said that, if he ends up in a combat with ANYTHING with instant death rule, expect that model to be what your enemy keeps on the table, at which point... by by mephy.

 

I wont comment on the sang, meph, seth or astorath as i've used none of them

[AngelOfDeathXIII]

As remarked before Mephiston is a beast.

 

For example in a 1500 points battle against a heavily mechanized Chaos Space Marines/Imperial Guard army he tore his way trough a Leman Russ Battle Tank, two Chimera's, a Rhino and a Chaos Vindicator while butchering a full unit of Death Guard.

 

I've decided to take Mepthiston as a starter in my army-lists. :)

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

The Sanguinor is best used in DoA armies. As such you're not going to be able to hide him behind a transport. Turn 3 is typically when you first charge with a DoA army.

 

G :(

[knife&fork]

Mephy is a monster but the lack of independant character makes me avoid using him, Matt Ward really did a number on us giving us THREE characters that lack such an important rule. especially as two of them are horribly expensive...

 

Would you have preferred to have Mephiston scaled back to 3rd ed stats? Imagine how game breaking current Mephiston would have been with a 4*SS bodyguard or a squad of assault terminators...

 

As for the previous posters I don't see the point in comparing the Sanguinor and Mephiston straight up since a big part of the points you pay for the former is his buffs.

 

DC Tycho is the only one who doesn't make sense game balance wise.

[Brother Chris]

Nothing wrong with jump-pack DC. Led by Lemartes they are brilliant.

[Zhukov]

Just like Mephiston, he's a single model unit, the size of a space marine, you can hide him behind damn near anything (wings don't count, you need to see some part of his actual body, even a toe). People (myself included) spew out Meph praises, and nobody seems to be worried about how vulnerable he is to being shot, and he's even more so without a natural 3++. Toughness makes no difference to str 8, 9, 10 weapons with AP1/2, they all wound on a 2, and the Sanguinor can shrug off 2/3 of them. Sure he's more susceptible to small arms fire, but he's still 2+ armor with far more than likely FNP on top of that. It would take a retarded amount of small arms fire to take down 3 wounds through that.

Mephiston should have a cover save if the oppenent has a lot of ap2/ap1, period. With that in mind:

 

Sanguinor against plasma:

3x 3/1 x 6/5 = 10,8 hits

Mephiston:

5x 2/1 x 3/2 = 15,0 hits

 

Much more survivable against plasma, assuming you know how to give him a cover save. (which isn't hard I hope, as some here argue they can hide Sanguinor most of the game)

Against S8 Ap2 or better, he still wins, although more marginal. Again everything worse than this Mephiston is much better.

Now what if Sanguinor loses 2 wounds? You think your oppenent wont try to shoot him down with small arms fire now? It will happen and the chance is much, much larger than that it happens to Mephiston.

 

Now I can do a whole analysis how rolling not average will affect Sanguinor much more than Mephiston, but I feel like I'll be wasting my time. I got the idea here that some people don't understand much about probability. Nothing wrong with, but then it's hard to have a decent discussion.

 

I got experience and theory on my side, the people who vote for him got only experience. Do with this what you want, I'm getting bored of this.

I mean, look at this sentence:

Your entire argument is that he can die to shooting. If you're afraid of that, then i have bad news for you, everything in the entire game can die to shooting. He is not some how more susceptible to being blasted off the board than anything else.

Ever heard of point costs mate? Either you're stupid or you try to troll me with this comment. Maybe both.

 

Ugh, time to leave again, sorry for coming back to this forum.

 

This reply deserves a normal response though:

He starts in reserve then deep strikes behind a piece of LOS blocking terrain when he arrives from reserve. That right there should prevent him from being torrented to death by smalls arm fire.

What is he going to do there? Does your oppenent just put infantry units within 18" of him? Why are they letting you do that? Why aren't your oppenents castling, or denying you nice spots? (you start in reserve after all, if you go 2nd the oppenent has 2 turns of movement + deployement) Let's assume you get 1 charge off: Will that make him suddenly good? I don't care if you kill a unit of 5 infantry models; means I get to shoot to death in my turn. We aren't playing in an era of Herohammer, MC spam or large expensive infantry units. No: We live in a period of Mech spam with mostly MSU. This guy his abilities are obsolute against most armies.

 

You've got a lot of highly mobile units dropping in close to the enemy line. If you saturate an area of the board with a good number of units then your opponent must decide what to shoot first and if you do it right then maybe old Sanguinor won't be so high on the list.

How can the guy not be high on somebody his list? He's relatively easy to kill and he's killy! So basicly, you get rewarded for shooting the Sanguinor because it's an easy way to kill an important unit...

 

Once he gets into close combat he is safe as can be - that's where you want him the most, right?

Of course. But this wont happen consistent enough to make him a good unit for serious tournament play. He's too dice dependant, simple.

 

I have a good track record with my army and have played in several big events across the US over the past two years so no my experience is not based upon going down to the FLGS and pounding on n00bs. I don't even know why you wanted to bring that up really. I think if a poster can express a good set of tactics and strategies it's merit is good enough and doesn't need to be bolstered by quoting tourney records.

I was wondering, that's all. Well if you always perform very well with him (do you? ;) ), then that's obviously good for you. I'm afraid this is the exception though, caused by unknown reasons.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Sanguinor still rocks against Grey Knights while Mephiston just gets p0wned. It is what it is. Anyways always entertaining to read your replies.

 

G ;)

[Zhukov]

Well hey, at least i'm special in the way I response right? ;)

 

As always no offense meant might you doubt about it.

 

 

Disagree btw: I find Mephiston really good against Grey Knights. You just gotta be more carefull with him, but you get rewarded for that: You pretty much control the GK player his movement, while you also have a near unkillable Psyhic Hood shutting down his Hammerhands and Fortitudes now and then. Why is he so hard to kill? They lack ranged Ap2/Ap1.

 

Sanguinor however is also good against GK's, I admit that right away.