Answering up loose questions about the Legion

[Augustus]

The following are some questions I would really like to be answered. If anyone could provide textual evidence I would be super duper happy.

 

1. Half the Legion went traitor

This is a figure I see tossed around everywhere. I think I even made a thread about this in times past (that I cant find now.) Where is the proof of this? Recently it is shown the Lion sent back/exiled 500 marines to Caliban. Now as the heresy breaks out Luther withholds 4000 new marines. Now as Angels of Darkness points out there was a schism on the planet between "loyalist" marines and marines who wanted to go to Terra. Granted given the source, this is suspect. It appears that given the 6 year course that the Heresy takes and the 98% success rate of the 2 year process to make marines, (according to Fallen Angels) it would give Luther 6 years, at least, to raise new troops. In summation, yes there were probably a lot of fallen. But I don't believe how this is possible. Unless they arrive on the planet and Luther broadcasts a message to the entire Legion and then half turn.

 

2. The Lion's win count

Horus has always been Number 1 for this. Given that he was the first to be discovered. According to our codex it then places us second. Because Russ could never catch up; he was frustrated. Now the recent BL series has the Lion found 50 years before the Heresy. This seems hard to do now. I have read accounts (from various forums) that the Big Blue Boss is number 2 or even that Dorn was. Any recent material would be greatly appreciated.

 

3. The Lions strategic/tactical acumen

A commonly held belief is that the Lion was a tactical super genius "The Lion is your father's rationality - his analytical skill - unburdened by conscience" pg 57 First Heretic This is spoken when discussing what facet of the Emperor each Primarch represents. I know there are more. Any help? :tu:

 

4. XXXXX

 

As said, I would really appreciate help putting these questions to a rest.

 

Thank you

[The Broker]

It's worth noting that in the First Heretic, it's Kor Phaeron who lists the aspects of the Emperor which the Primarchs represent.

 

And seeing as he's firmly in the Chaos camp, it's possible that what he says is calculated to isolate, shame, and turn Lorgar from his father, rather than an accurate analysis of the primarchs.

 

Especially what he says about Guilliman - telling a man his most hated brother is most similiar to his beloved father cannot go down well.

[Legatus]

2. The Lion's win count

Horus has always been Number 1 for this. Given that he was the first to be discovered. According to our codex it then places us second. Because Russ could never catch up; he was frustrated. Now the recent BL series has the Lion found 50 years before the Heresy. This seems hard to do now. I have read accounts (from various forums) that the Big Blue Boss is number 2 or even that Dorn was. Any recent material would be greatly appreciated.

It has been in sources since 2nd Edition that Horus, Jonson and Russ had the greatest amount of victories. But back then there was no information given on when they had been found. Jonson being found that late would indeed make that claim seem rather implausible.

 

Guilliman was said since 2nd Edition to have liberated more worlds than any other Primarch. This discrepancy in statements could be due to the fact that any destroyed xeno or heretic fleet and any destroyed xeno civilisation or obliterated planet would count as a "victory", but would not add another world to the Imperium. For some Primarchs it was perhaps more important to defeat aliens, rather than to free human worlds.

[Droma]

@Legatus

 

It could also be that it's counting those worlds Guilliman returned to the imperium during the aftermath of the heresy. We know the wins thing is specifically about the great crusade while we aren't so clear on the other statement.

[Legatus]

It could also be that it's counting those worlds Guilliman returned to the imperium during the aftermath of the heresy. We know the wins thing is specifically about the great crusade while we aren't so clear on the other statement.

Both the 2nd Edition C:UM statement (p. 12) and the 5th Edition C:SM statement (p. 13) refer specifically to the Great Crusade.

[Droma]

My mistake then. GW fluff though is always full of contradictions and retcons. They seem to like it that way as it supposedly represents the ignorance and myth that abounds in the 41st millennium.

[Bryan Blaire]

Could it also be that everybody lies, because in every Codex, everyone is the greatest? The best thing about 40K to me is that there really is no canon per se (per something similar from an AD-B statement), it is all true, and none of it is true. That can always be viewed as part of the reason there seems to be such a distinction between the fluff and the way the game itself actually plays out.

[Grimdarkness]

1 never understood that part either i'd say a thousand to fifteen hundred at most.

 

2 is it the lions win count or the legions? All reference i've seen has the dark angel's at #2

 

3 considering the only time this is really ever shown is the battle before the lion and russ get down and dirty. Girlyman is often shown as the tactical genius. It's to bad i'd like to see this part of the primarch expanded.