Spoils of war

[Brother Captain Andrew]

Hi everyone, I've been wondering what happens to various instruments of war when a chapter captures various instruments of war either from chaos, xenos and heritics. A few examples specifically I've been wondering about:

 

1: a chaos battle barge or strike cruiser

 

(Returned after =I= purification or given to the space marine founding pool?)

 

2 A Heretic Battleship?

 

(Could it be converted? Would a chapter keep it and if so would that be grounds for =I= action?

 

3. Titans, ordinatus, and other armor

 

(Could a chapter keep these for its own pdf or are these definitely going back to the mechanicum?

 

Any other examples or thoughts are welcome. Thanks.

[CKO]

Depending on who captures it, some chapters will keep it as relics, some may make adjustments and use it, and some will destroy it out right. Go here and look under the philosphy section where it explains the difference between Puritans and radicals.

[Shinzaren]

1: a chaos battle barge or strike cruiser

Destroyed. Chaos Fleets are so infected with daemons and the warp as to be demons in all but name.

 

2 A Heretic Battleship?

Depends if they are the Chaos type Heretics, or just the garden variety heretics who don't like the Emperor. If they don't worship Chaos, the ship wouldn't be warp-tainted and could be returned after proper cleansing by the Adeptus Mechanicus. Even if the Battleship was in perfect condition, the Marines wouldn't keep it. It is a Navy ship and would be returned to the Adeptus Mechanicus, who would then decide what to do with it.

 

3. Titans, ordinatus, and other armor

AM. They would take all these things and decide what to do with them. For the most part, captured stuff goes to 2 places. Anything tech or weapon related would go to the AM to take charge of. That includes Xenos artifacts, which would be dealt with by the Ordo Xenos and the Adeptus Mechanicus. Anything Heretical or Blasphemous would be given over to the Inquisition, who would then decide what to do with it.

 

Basic rule of the Imperium is that the Marines are supplied with everything they will need. They are expected to turn over anything that they find to either the AM or the =][= who will then decide what course of action to take. Other things, like a Warboss's skull, the Shield of some enemy, or a Banner could be kept as trophies. But if it is useful for more than showing off as a token of victory, it gets shipped out.

 

Useful to someone = AM or Inquisition

Useful to noone = Trophy.

[Heru]

1: a chaos battle barge or strike cruiser

Destroyed. Chaos Fleets are so infected with daemons and the warp as to be demons in all but name.

 

2 A Heretic Battleship?

Depends if they are the Chaos type Heretics, or just the garden variety heretics who don't like the Emperor. If they don't worship Chaos, the ship wouldn't be warp-tainted and could be returned after proper cleansing by the Adeptus Mechanicus. Even if the Battleship was in perfect condition, the Marines wouldn't keep it. It is a Navy ship and would be returned to the Adeptus Mechanicus, who would then decide what to do with it.

Too lazy to re-type, so I'll just quote from another thread:

:: Looks at Imperial Armour 9 & 10 ::

 

In the aftermath of the battle, the Executioners took the Night Hag as their prize. With assistance of the Archmagos masters of Gryphonne IV they successfully purged the mighty warship of taint and refitted it to the Chapter's purposes. In return the Magos were allowed to remove certain relic-technologies from the vessel and were granted free access to the ancient and unique lore stored in it's data-tabernacle.

 

Fewer than a hundred Inceptors Battle Brothers survived the Euxcine incident, while the Minotaurs stripped the fallen of many relics for their own armouries and took the ravaged Chapter's flagship, a Great Crusade-era assault transport that had served the Inceptors since their founding, as a spoil of war.

 

Their reputation has been long-marred however by those that would call the Sons of Medusa battlefield scavengers and carrion crows. This is thanks to their tendency to seek out and appropriate weapons and technology from the fallen; a habit learned during the lean years of their exile. It is said of the Sons of Medusa by their detractors that the desire to take wargear remains an underlying motive of theirs, and a principal reason they have never shunned combat against their fellow Space Marine Chapters who have turned renegade or that become subject to Imperial censure.

 

Like many Chapters who are fated to stand guard over far-flung border frontiers, or carry out armed vigils on dark regions of the galaxy where dread threats slumber, the Mantis Warriors have long stood alone in their watch, their autonomy seldon challenged and with none to come to their aid should events overtake them...

 

...The Mantis Warriors Chapter fleet stood at a single battle barge, three strike cruisers, two vanguard cruisers, six armed transports and at least nineteen escort and attack vessels of varying types and classes, including several formerly renegade and re-commissioned xenos vessels that the Chapter utilised for infiltration attacks.

 

...the infamous Night Hag was formerly the flagship of the darkly fated Rogue Trader house of Revvokan which fell to Chaos before being wiped out by the Imperium, and the ship itself was refitted and claimed as a prize of battle by the Executioners Chapter.

 

Serving as the flagship of the Carcharodons Chapter' fleet during the Badab War, the Nicor was itself an ancient relic, a heavily modified example of a Charibdys class Grand Cruiser, a type seldom seen since the days of the Horus Heresy.

[CKO]

I really think it depends on the chapter, blood angels found a blue print for fast vehicles and they did not hand it over to the AM.

[Espada Azul]

Let's see what we have here now...

 

1. A Chaos-tainted vessel will almost certainly be destroyed. Too risky to reclaim, and really what contemporary Chapter would WANT to be spotted using a ship that's probably been ID'd by the Administratum for millennia as being used by Traitors?

 

There are always exceptions of course, but cleansing a ship of Chaos taint would be likely a long and involved process.

 

2. Depends. As others mentioned, a ship used by seccessionists or renegade may be reclaimed for use by the Chapter, or returned to their rightful owners. Fleet-based chapters who aren't prideful and are forced to 'live off the land' so to speak have a higher chance of doing the former, while a Chapter with a permanent base of operations like a Chapter planet may do the latter.

 

3. Turned over to the people who actually use them. Meaning no Titans for your Chapter.

[Olis]

Useful to someone = AM or Inquisition

Useful to noone = Trophy.

 

Well, I think a major factor would be whether the chapter gave a monkeys what the wider Imperium thought. A minority would not, and probably wouldn't care that the vast battlecruiser they had just captured would make a nice addition to the local Naval complement. What they did with it would be up to them and them alone as it was a spoil of war. This, however, is mostly conjecture on my part but given that the Imperium is vast and Chapters exhibit such varying martial philosophies I don't see a case where every single Chapter would follow 'the rules'.

 

Also it's not unknown for 'trophies' to be useful - just look at the Night Hag from IA9 & IA10.

[Chapter Master Ignis Domus]

In either the second or third Space Wolf book, it mentions a battleship formerly of the Imperial Navy that was taken by some renegades. After it was retaken, the Imperial Navy wanted it back, but the Wolves said no, and that was that. There might have been an incident similar to what happened to the Ecclesiarchy ships if the matter had been pressed further.

[Arkangilos]

I think Heru pretty much stated it all in post 3 :cuss

[Elric the Silvercoat]

If any Chaos ship was captured they would most likely purge it if they could more so likely if its something as rare as a Battle Barge.

[thade]

If it belonged to the Imperium before (which is the case for may Chaos battle barges, at least from the perspective of the Imperium) then if it's salvageable they'll salvage it. There are lots of examples of this. For instance, the axe Morkai is a reforged Chaos SM weapon, which is wielded by the SW Chapter Master, Logan Grimnar. Also, the Gauntlets of Ultramar themselves were recovered from a Chaos Champion. If they can clean that barge, they'll use it.

[Brother Captain Andrew]

Thanks for all the responses guys. Would a refitted battleship be a possibility? I was thinking something like a Retribution class battleship that the chapter captured . The chapter master oreder that the precious nova cannon and Admech-y stuff be given over to the forge world, and in return he requested that the ship be made into the ultimate boarding vessel-replacing the weapons with enough torpedo tubes to deliver a comany of marines in one broadside of boarding torpedos, the most accurate teleporters, etc. ( FYI, the chapter specializes in boaring actions and the removal of planetary orbital defenses. Kind of themed on the ancient navies of rome and greece where the objective was to board the enemy and destroy them.)

 

Let's see what we have here now...

Turned over to the people who actually use them. Meaning no Titans for your Chapter.

 

Yeah, I figured as much. I wasn't planning on titans piloted by space marines (though how sweet would that be, a crew of techmarines running a titan in support of the chapter ) I just wanted to know how likely it is that they would just a tool of war that perfect up after capturing it.

[Elric the Silvercoat]

If you find a titan and give it to the Admech you will get huge brownie points I mean a whole room full of brownies. And you would be more likly to be able to get the help of a Titan Legion by request. You wouldn't need to give the battleship over to the Admech to get it refitted your companies Techmarines and supple staff can do it for you. Just give anything important to the right people afterward if you don't need it. The 40k unvierse is very, "Well I need it more than you need to research it so go bugger off!", kind of feel. And remember sometimes the Admech will open fire on friendlies if they get in the way of some tech they want. (Just look up what happened to the Soul Drinkers. That was messy.)

[Ring-around-the-roses]

My Chapter will have a 'killers keepers' rule.

 

If they beat you in space, prepare to lose your fleet.

If they beat you on ground, prepare to lose your tanks, guns, artillery and anything else that you could rebel with.

And who do they give it to? Their are many possibilities i'm working on.

[NecronGovernour]

1: a chaos battle barge or strike cruiser

 

(Returned after =I= purification or given to the space marine founding pool?)

 

2 A Heretic Battleship?

 

(Could it be converted? Would a chapter keep it and if so would that be grounds for =I= action?

 

3. Titans, ordinatus, and other armor

 

(Could a chapter keep these for its own pdf or are these definitely going back to the mechanicum?

 

Any other examples or thoughts are welcome. Thanks.

 

I think what has been said in the way of "If it's not Chaos (or just a little bit and can be purged), it goes back to Imperial service" is mostly right, just two things too keep in mind:

 

1. When the Space Wolves bend the rules and keep something for themselves they're not supposed too, it's MUCH more of a big deal for another Imperial organisation to openly oppose them. Really, noone has gotten away with more ;) in 40k than SW, just because nobody wants to mess with them too much.

 

2. If I'm rembering "Dead Sky, Black Sun" correctly, Chaos Titans we're compared to daemon machines, more bloodthirsty posessed monsters than pilotable machine. This also comes up in one of the Eisenhorn novels

where the protagonist psychically encounters the machine spirit of a Chaos Titan, which is both absolutely evil and powerful enough to simply overwhelm the innate protection of a psychic "blank" (something which apparently even powerful daemonhosts can't do).

 

In short, it might be impossible to safely remove the taint from a Chaos Titan.

 

EDIT:grammar

[Elric the Silvercoat]

1: a chaos battle barge or strike cruiser

 

(Returned after =I= purification or given to the space marine founding pool?)

 

2 A Heretic Battleship?

 

(Could it be converted? Would a chapter keep it and if so would that be grounds for =I= action?

 

3. Titans, ordinatus, and other armor

 

(Could a chapter keep these for its own pdf or are these definitely going back to the mechanicum?

 

Any other examples or thoughts are welcome. Thanks.

 

I think what has been said in the way of "If it's not Chaos (or just a little bit and can be purged), it goes back to Imperial service" is mostly right, just two things too keep in mind:

 

1. When the Space Wolves bend the rules and keep something for themselves they're not supposed too, it's MUCH more of a big deal for another Imperial organisation to openly oppose them. Really, noone has gotten away with more ;) in 40k than SW, just because nobody wants to mess with them too much.

 

2. If I'm rembering "Dead Sky, Black Sun" correctly, Chaos Titans we're compared to daemon machines, more bloodthirsty posessed monsters than pilotable machine. This also comes up in one of the Eisenhorn novels

where the protagonist psychically encounters the machine spirit of a Chaos Titan, which is both absolutely evil and powerful enough to simply overwhelm the innate protection of a psychic "blank" (something which apparently even powerful daemonhosts can't do).

 

In short, it might be impossible to safely remove the taint from a Chaos Titan.

 

EDIT:grammar

I am not so much saying purging Chaos Titan as in finding an adandoned Titan.

[Chapter Master Ignis Domus]

An abandoned Titan? The chances of that are essentially zero. This is a Titan, probably the most powerful thing on the ground. They aren't just abandoned if they can work at all.

[Elric the Silvercoat]

An abandoned Titan? The chances of that are essentially zero. This is a Titan, probably the most powerful thing on the ground. They aren't just abandoned if they can work at all.

That is tons of stories and stuff about Lost Titans that are found and put back into serve after they are repaired and recrewed.

[Leonaides]

Correction - there're a few stories that involve re-discovered Titans. And your marines wouldnt be able to repair, re-crew and use a Titan anyway. Repairing a Titan requires seriously specialised kit - you'd need to go to a Forge World or a Titan Legion field repair facility (both of which would put you square in the hands of the Ad Mechanicus). Added to the question of WHY your marines would want a Titan (little hint - they wouldnt want it or be able to use it effectively).

[Heru]

Really, noone has gotten away with more <_< in 40k than SW, just because nobody wants to mess with them too much.

No it isn't because people don't want to mess with them, it is because they have allot of friends. You mess with any of the First Founders and you risk massive civil war, simply because their buddies and successors (not so much the latter in the SW case) always jump in to back them up, and things escalate out of control.

 

2. If I'm rembering "Dead Sky, Black Sun" correctly, Chaos Titans we're compared to daemon machines, more bloodthirsty posessed monsters than pilotable machine. This also comes up in one of the Eisenhorn novels

where the protagonist psychically encounters the machine spirit of a Chaos Titan, which is both absolutely evil and powerful enough to simply overwhelm the innate protection of a psychic "blank" (something which apparently even powerful daemonhosts can't do).

 

In short, it might be impossible to safely remove the taint from a Chaos Titan.

 

EDIT:grammar

I wouldn't put much stock in how Abnett deals with "blanks". In his books you are left with the horrible aftertaste of "do they really work?".