Stormraven Cargo

[Brother_Byhlli]

We have a wondrous swoopy bird of killy-death. It can transport literally any unit in our codex that isn't a tank. Or a bike. Or a skimmer. Gah, you know what I mean!

 

So, here's my question:

 

What's the best thing to stick in a Stormraven and why?

 

Let's consider independent characters, squads and independent characters attached to squads.

 

The obvious ones (in the order they appear in the codex) would seem to be:

 

Independent Characters

 

1. Pretty much any HQ.
   
2. Sanguinary Priests
   

 

Ok, so that's actually all of our independent characters. Well, maybe you guys can narrow this one down!

 

 

Infantry Units

 

1. Honour Guard
   
2. Sanguinary Guard
   
3. Terminator Assault Squad
   
4. Sternguard Veteran Squad
   
5. Death Company
   
6. Assault Squad
   
7. Vanguard Veteran Squad
   

 

 

Walkers

 

1. Furioso Dreadnought
   
2. Furioso Librarian Dreadnought
   
3. Death Company Dreadnought
   
4. Dreadnought
   

 

If you're sticking one or more units in a Stormraven, what's your poison and why? Also, why do you put them in a Stormraven instead of something else, such as a Land Raider? Or, do you actually prefer a Land Raider and avoid Stormravens like the plague?

 

Comments on postcards, please, to the usual address!

[Volcatus]

I've only used a Raven a couple times now. I have to admit, I rather like it. The mobility makes it much more attractive over the Land Raider in a fast striking force. To date I have only deployed it with a Terminator Librarian w/ Storm Shield, and a Terminator Assault Squad and a Frag Cannon Furioso. They've preformed as one would expect.

 

I was tinkering just now with the thought of a full RAS as the "package".

 

Librarian - Shield/Rage 100

Sang Priest - Power Sword (claw if you have it) 65

Assault Squad - 10 marines, 2 meltaguns, power fist, TLAC Razorback 290

Storm Raven - Hurricanes, EA, TLPC, TLMM 245

700 pts.

 

Librarian, Priest and RAS embark into the Raven, leaving the cheap Razorback available for use elsewhere. It's just a thought though, as I'm unsure putting anything short of Terminators, a big DC unit, or Sang Guard into the SR. Another option is to not put infantry into them at all, and just shuttle a Dread around. I think the DC dread in particular would be rather interesting.

[calgaryBA]

I've fallen in love with flying in a group of assault terminators with a priest.

 

They usually have to weather their way up the field, hoping their LR doesn't blow up. Now I just boost up the board, melta something, and see if the raven survives (not often). Either way, the termies made it! If i don't get first turn, I just reserve the bugger, then do the same thing when it's turn comes up.

 

Strangely, if the SR's survive turn 1 of shooting, they usually manage to stick around for the entire game, or at least turn 5.

[toaae]

I've used Sanguinary Guard, Death Company (with Lemartes, of course), and assault terminators. While the Sanguinary Guard didn't perform well for me, big squads of DC and assault termies do.

 

If I can't guarantee Furious Charge on my termies, I go all hammernators, and just throw them at something hard. Otherwise, 2 Lightning Claws in the unit striking at S5 I5 are scary good, while the 3 hammers and stormshields still pack a punch AND durability.

 

Thinking of trying this for 725 points:

 

• Librarian- Terminator Armour, Storm Shield, Unleash Rage, Blood Lance
  
• Assault Terminators- 5 TH/SS
  
• Furioso Dread- Blood Talons, EA
  
• Storm Raven- EA
  

 

That is a deathstar unit. Able to simultaneously take on elites, vehicles, and infantry hordes.

 

Strangely, if the SR's survive turn 1 of shooting, they usually manage to stick around for the entire game, or at least turn 5.

 

I find the same thing. But it's not surprising, since by turn 2, I have the SR's cargo hitting the enemy's lines, as well as portions of the rest of my army. Turn 3 is usually when I move 6", and pop all those missiles.

[JamesI]

I would say the best choices are something like this:

 

10 DC, Lemartes

5 Assault Terminators, Librarian, Corbulo.

Mephiston.

[Bradley Powers]

I would say the best choices are something like this:

 

10 DC, Lemartes

5 Assault Terminators, Librarian, Corbulo.

Mephiston.

 

 

I'm running the 10 DC with Lemartes with a DC Dreadnought, and Mephiston with a Furioso Dreadnought in my 3 stormraven list (the third carries a 3rd dreadnought, and whatever infantry I need in it, very flexible). They're both very nasty units to have running around the board. I might have to consider 5 Assault terminators. I don't know what I'd drop though...

[SevenExxes]

I picked up a Stormraven for 35% discount. It's my second.

It's still in the box :cuss

 

As to the original question ...

 

DEATH COMPANY~!!

[TheAvengingKnee]

Ive used Sanguinary Guard w/ Dante and a furioso worked pretty well Fly up to target trying to get a cover save, next turn deploy forces let raven fly away and cargo assaults, next turn either pick cargo back up or leave them to their work.

 

For a bit cheaper option I have done an assault squad w/ sergeant with PP and PW, and a sanguinary priest with PP and PW, accompanied by a furioso w/ blood talons. When they all assault having the furioso at Str 7 and 4 attacks is nice.

 

being able to deliver some decent assault units the enemies weak points on their side of the field turn 2 and be able to assault them turn 2 is nice.

 

 

I also like the variety of weapons options the ravens have, you can load them out to kill just about anything they need to kill.

[Sokhar]

I ran my Storm Raven with a Furioso and a Sanguinary Guard + Priest unit inside tonight. Worked out well enough for the Guard, I guess. I had first turn and deployed as far forward as possible and moved 24" turn one. My opponent then promptly shot it down with a Land Raider, which basically stranded the dread and left it useless for the game. It gave the Sanguinary Guard enough of a boost though that they were able to jump and melta a Land Raider on turn 2 and then assault and completely dismember the Assault Terminator squad inside.

 

I think jump troops are definitely a good approach to take for Storm Ravens. Assault-oriented units like Sanguinary Guard benefit immensely from even one turn's movement to cross the board. So even if the Raven dies immediately afterward, with a 12" move plus 6" assault you should be in hand-to-hand turn 2. With regular Assault Marines you can stand off and have a scoring gunboat, which would probably make the Raven a bit more survivable. And I wouldn't bother with dreads without a Raven to carry them, as running on foot or popping out of pods is just horribly inefficient in most cases.

[Blindhamster]

moved 24" turn one

 

meaning you used the fast vehicle rule on your flying skimmer... meaning when it was destroyed all its contents died and shouldnt have done anything turn two :)

[JamesI]

moved 24" turn one

 

meaning you used the fast vehicle rule on your flying skimmer... meaning when it was destroyed all its contents died and shouldnt have done anything turn two :(

This is not true at all. The everything inside is killed only happens if the vehicle is destroyed the same turn that it moves flat out. Since turn always means player turn (unless specifically stated otherwise) a vehicle can flat out, get killed and everyone pours out as normal. Pretty much the only way a vehicle can flat out and be killed in the same turn is bad scatter from stuff like Vindicator shells or a fast skimmer entering terrain and immobilizing itself.

[Brother_Byhlli]

moved 24" turn one

 

meaning you used the fast vehicle rule on your flying skimmer... meaning when it was destroyed all its contents died and shouldnt have done anything turn two :P

This is not true at all. The everything inside is killed only happens if the vehicle is destroyed the same turn that it moves flat out. Since turn always means player turn (unless specifically stated otherwise) a vehicle can flat out, get killed and everyone pours out as normal. Pretty much the only way a vehicle can flat out and be killed in the same turn is bad scatter from stuff like Vindicator shells or a fast skimmer entering terrain and immobilizing itself.

 

It's difficult to do, certainly. I think that codex Space Marine Thunderfire Cannons can cause a difficult terrain test, so you might be shot the previous turn and fail the test after declaring you're moving flat out. But that would require high levels of silliness on your part. ^_^

[Bradley Powers]

moved 24" turn one

 

meaning you used the fast vehicle rule on your flying skimmer... meaning when it was destroyed all its contents died and shouldnt have done anything turn two ^_^

This is not true at all. The everything inside is killed only happens if the vehicle is destroyed the same turn that it moves flat out. Since turn always means player turn (unless specifically stated otherwise) a vehicle can flat out, get killed and everyone pours out as normal. Pretty much the only way a vehicle can flat out and be killed in the same turn is bad scatter from stuff like Vindicator shells or a fast skimmer entering terrain and immobilizing itself.

 

 

I think another instance where this comes into play (and more common amongst the foul Dark Eldar) is to move a vehicle flat out and ram. For the DE, they do this with raiders, which are great at ramming, but there needed to be a consequence for ramming with a transport.

[JamesI]

moved 24" turn one

 

meaning you used the fast vehicle rule on your flying skimmer... meaning when it was destroyed all its contents died and shouldnt have done anything turn two ^_^

This is not true at all. The everything inside is killed only happens if the vehicle is destroyed the same turn that it moves flat out. Since turn always means player turn (unless specifically stated otherwise) a vehicle can flat out, get killed and everyone pours out as normal. Pretty much the only way a vehicle can flat out and be killed in the same turn is bad scatter from stuff like Vindicator shells or a fast skimmer entering terrain and immobilizing itself.

 

 

I think another instance where this comes into play (and more common amongst the foul Dark Eldar) is to move a vehicle flat out and ram. For the DE, they do this with raiders, which are great at ramming, but there needed to be a consequence for ramming with a transport.

Yep. Good point. I had a DE opponent who used to try this all the time until we pointed out it meant everyone inside his raider was dead.

[Brother_Byhlli]

Right, I've been thinking about this and I rather feel that the question is best answered by considering the benefit to the unit of putting it in a Stormraven.

 

I can only think of two units that genuinely benefit from being embarked on a Stormraven rather than just foot-slogging, ignoring the universal benefit of not being shot at for a turn or two: Assault Terminator Squads and Death Company.

 

Assault Terminator Squads are massively lumbering. We know they're best-suited to combat and we also know that they can't move more than 6" + D6" per turn. (In fact, for "best-suited", perhaps read "only suited", as they actually have no ranged weapons at all!) Deep striking leaves them out in the cold for a turn and foot-slogging means you're likely to be turn 3 before you get to the enemy, with incoming fire pounding the squad the whole way. So the benefit to Assault Terminator Squads of Stormravens is that they get fast-forwarded into combat turn 2 fairly reliably and don't have to put up with incoming fire as much while they cross the table.

 

Death Company are uncontrollable. They can be kited by a clever opponent and end up totally missing the entire battle. By putting them into a vehicle you can deliver them exactly where you want them and the Stormraven's Assault Vehicle rule means they can assault immediately having disembarked, getting rid of the whole issue of compulsory movement until turn 3 at the earliest. Also, two of the characters you're most likely to want included in a Death Company unit - Astorath tha Grim and Lemartes, Guardian of the Lost - wear jump packs. As Stormravens are the only vehicle on which jump pack-equipped models can embark, if you want to upgrade your Death Company with some of their most powerful characters, you can't transport them any other way. So the benefits to Death Company is that you reliably direct them where you want them to go without having them wander off to the far side of the board following a Scout Bike or similar; and that you can upgrade the unit as you want without affecting their ability to embark on a vehicle.

 

Of the two, both can be fit into a Land Raider unless the Death Company have jump pack-equipped characters attached to the squad.

 

So my question now is why you would use a Stormraven instead of a Land Raider?

 

1. If your Death Company includes jump packs, then you have no choice.
   
2. Stormravens can move twice as fast as a Land Raider, putting them right in the face of the enemy at the end of turn 1 and have a good opportunity to fire a multi-melta at an enemy tank or similar target.
   
3. Stormravens have a larger transport capacity than some Land Raiders.
   
4. Stormravens ignore the additional D6 of vehicle penetration offered by melta, which is most beneficial in close-quarters - exactly where you're going to be if you plan to drop off an assault unit.
   
5. Stormravens have a vast array of weaponry, able to fire 6 weapons as standard, without paying for upgrades. With upgrades (hurricane bolters and typhoon missile launcher), they're suddenly firing even more shots. That's an awesome amount of weaponry.
   
6. Stormravens are cheaper than Land Raiders.
   
7. Stormravens can carry Dreadnoughts.
   

 

However, Land Raiders also have plenty going for them:

 

1. Land Raiders have stronger armour than Stormravens and, although they don't ignore the additional D6 vehicle penetration roll of melta at half-range, even with the extra dice melta can have a tough time penetrating the armour.
   
2. Land Raiders have fewer weapons to start the game, but all a Land Raider's weapons can be re-used (as opposed to the four Blood Strike missiles, which are gone when they're fired). A Stormraven is limited to two weapons without upgrades after firing its missiles - a Land Raider can always fire three weapons as standard.
   
3. A Land Raider has the potential for greater transport capacity than a Stormraven.
   
4. Although slightly more vulnerable to melta at half-range (we're talking about the Stormraven suffering a glancing or penetrating hit 50% of the time compared to the Land Raider's 70%-ish), Land Raiders are immune to a number of weapons than can damage Storm Ravens: assault cannons, krak grenades, plasma of all kinds, autocannons and frag cannons will bounce off a Land Raider (and I know assault cannons and frag cannons can roll rending - but we're talking about less than a 4% chance of glancing or penetrating per Assault Cannon shot).
   
5. Land Raiders are Dedicated Transports, so they don't take up a slot on the Force Organisation Chart.
   
6. Land Raiders can take frag assault launchers, allowing units without grenades to assault into cover.
   

 

My thoughts now are that Land Raiders are slower-moving and more dependable: best-suited to an army that involves foot-sloggers or other, slower-moving units. In a game where you don't need to be in the enemy's face desperately quickly, Land Raiders will generally survive longer and do more damage than a Stormraven. In larger points games where Force Organisation Slots become more valuable, the fact that Land Raiders are Dedicated Transports makes them very useful.

 

However, in a game where your force is designed for lightning assaults, Stormravens are more valuable. The speed they can let you attack an enemy is frightening and although they're susceptible to enemy fire, they actually benefit from being close to the enemy. If a Stormraven survives its first turn and drops off its cargo without being destroyed, the unit that was inside will often distract attention from the Stormraven itself and the main force of its weapons can be unloaded in one turn anyway. Due to the nature of the Stormraven's weapons, you don't need the vehicle to survive beyond, say, the end of turn 2.

 

Ok. Due to the nature of my playstyle, I think I'm sold: Stormravens offer me the best choice of vehicle for the lists and playstyle I favour.

 

Now to work out how to give my opponent enough targets to worry about that he's not thinking too much about the flying box of death that's about to unleash hell into his ranks... ;)

 

moved 24" turn one

 

meaning you used the fast vehicle rule on your flying skimmer... meaning when it was destroyed all its contents died and shouldnt have done anything turn two :(

This is not true at all. The everything inside is killed only happens if the vehicle is destroyed the same turn that it moves flat out. Since turn always means player turn (unless specifically stated otherwise) a vehicle can flat out, get killed and everyone pours out as normal. Pretty much the only way a vehicle can flat out and be killed in the same turn is bad scatter from stuff like Vindicator shells or a fast skimmer entering terrain and immobilizing itself.

 

 

I think another instance where this comes into play (and more common amongst the foul Dark Eldar) is to move a vehicle flat out and ram. For the DE, they do this with raiders, which are great at ramming, but there needed to be a consequence for ramming with a transport.

Yep. Good point. I had a DE opponent who used to try this all the time until we pointed out it meant everyone inside his raider was dead.

 

Interesting. Are Dark Eldar particularly good at ramming?

[JamesI]

Not really. He used it as a way to race forward full out, ram, hope his vehicle dies so his guys disembark then assault.

[Brother_Byhlli]

Not really. He used it as a way to race forward full out, ram, hope his vehicle dies so his guys disembark then assault.

 

Ahhhhh, I see!

 

Brilliant idea if the guys inside don't die, but I guess that's kind of the point of the rule, huh? ;)

[Bradley Powers]

They can take shock prows (+D3 strength on ram) and some other fancy gizmos to move quickly. I have a friend who routinely is ramming my stormravens, which is frustrating!

[Wildcard101]

I've had good results with:

Reclusiarch

Sanguinary Priest + Power Weapon

10-man Assault Squad + Powerfist + 2 Meltaguns (even bought a Razorback, just as so not to waste the 35-point discount).

Furioso Librarian Dreadnought (Shield of Sanguinius + Might of Heroes)

 

The only thing that has survived my Assault with this is a souped-up Wolf Cavalry unit & Lord.

[Brother_Byhlli]

I've had good results with:

Reclusiarch

Sanguinary Priest + Power Weapon

10-man Assault Squad + Powerfist + 2 Meltaguns (even bought a Razorback, just as so not to waste the 35-point discount).

Furioso Librarian Dreadnought (Shield of Sanguinius + Might of Heroes)

 

The only thing that has survived my Assault with this is a souped-up Wolf Cavalry unit & Lord.

 

I actually rather like the idea of using Assault Squads. I hadn't considered it before. But at the same time, your Assault Squad (which is exactly the same build I use with jump packs, incidentally) costs more than a unit of Assault Terminators with three thunder hammer/storm shields. Sure, you have more bodies but you're significantly less survivable and with the rerolls to hit coupled with the lightning claw reroll to wound and the fact that the entire squad is now toting power weapons, I suspect that the Terminators as well as being cheaper are also better at killing.

 

In fact I think the only thing the Assault Squad has going for it is the fact that it's scoring...? I think the Terminator Assault Squad does roughly twice the damage of the Assault Squad on the same power-armoured target. The Assault Squad are obviously increasingly valuable as the toughness and armour value of the opponent drop. Hmmm.

 

I guess my feeling then is that while Assault Squads can fit in the Stormraven, if you can afford the points you're better putting something else in. Because the Assault Squads have jump packs and no compulsory movement, plus the safety of numbers and relative anonymity, they're better able to cross the table on their own. I think I'll keep my Assault Squads mobile.

[ulllyssies0110]

I run 2 in my army and love them. One gets a 11 marine DC w/ reclusiarch and a Furioso w/ BF. The other gets SG w/ Priest and DC dread w/ talons. Fast and killy just the way I like it

[BAboyz17]

I think that death company would be the best choice with lemartes because you wanna get them in the enemies face as fast as possible and what better way to do that then a storm raven also what better way to not get led around when your landing ur dc flat in 1000-2000 points of deployment ;)

And a dc dread with talons for death to all! By the time the rest of your army gets there all they'll find is enemies begging to surrender :)

[JMac]

Assault Terminators 3x LC, 2x TH/SS

Librarian Rage, Shield

Sang Priest

 

12 S5 I5 with rerolls to hit (if rage goes off) and rerolls to wound is pretty hard to beat.

 

Only problem I've had is keeping the Librarian alive.

[Brother_Byhlli]

Assault Terminators 3x LC, 2x TH/SS

Librarian Rage, Shield

Sang Priest

 

12 S5 I5 with rerolls to hit (if rage goes off) and rerolls to wound is pretty hard to beat.

 

Only problem I've had is keeping the Librarian alive.

 

I see your unit (360 points, I think?) and raise you:

 

6 Death Company

- 6 power weapons

- Lemartes

 

Assuming Lemartes hasn't lost his wound yet, we've got 4 S5 I7 power weapon attacks and 24 S5 I5 power weapon attacks with every single attack guaranteed rerolling to hit and to wound.

 

Drop two power weapons for a thunder hammer if you want anti-monstrous creature damage....

 

 

Edit: just remembered all those attacks have a higher WS than Terminators, too...! Against a Space Marine statline (WS4, T4), this unit statistically generates over 22 power weapon wounds on the charge. Multi-charge two ten-man Space Marine squads and you kill more than both squads added together before any of them get a chance to hit back. You don't even win by combat resolution. You just wipe them out. Hell. That's disgusting.

[Brother_Byhlli]

In fact, if you run the numbers you get some unbelievable results:

 

My unit of Death Company (360 points) vs. 4 units of ten-man Assault Squads (because Space Marines are my standard reference point and I want to give them every opportunity to cause damage in return - Assault Squads are more challenging to Death Company than Tactical Squads) with power fists on the Sergeants (any other weapon upgrades just decrease their attacks in this scenario) (860 points). Obviously there are logistical problems with multi-charging four separate units. Let's assume it's happened:

 

My charge: 22 dead Space Marines.

 

Now, being generous, let's assume that I split the attacks across the four squads so all four Sergeants survive to strike back.

 

The Assault Marines strike back: not quite 3 dead Death Company (and assume that one wound went on Lemartes), so, being generous again, 2 dead Death Company.

 

My 360 points of Death Company win combat by 19 points and rout two-and-a-half times their value of enemy units.

 

:blink: