BLACK BLΠFLY Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 I decided to give this crazy madman a shot at the big money this weekend while playing my 2500 point Draigowing in the second mission from the Ard Boyz 2011 preliminary. The game was versus a heavily mechanized CSM army with lots and lots of Chaos Space Marines. My opponent and I decided to use the Infiltrate rule to better see if the Eversor could do some serious damage. My opponent was running three squads of Khorne Berzerkers (two squads in rhinos and one squad in a landraider), two squads of Plague Marines (in rhinos), two squads of Noise Marines (one squad in a rhino) and a squad of Havocs (4x lascannon). All the squads were 10 Marines strong so I was facing over 70 traitor Marines when you add in the two lash sorcerers. My army had less than half that many models so I knew going into the game I'd have to maximize all the kills each of my terminators could lay down in both shooting and melee. I felt that the Eversor was a good choice as he should be able to account for over half a squad of traitors if he could survive long enough to reach close combat... That might tip the scale of power slightly in my favor. I infiltrated the assassin over in a table corner adjacent to my opponent's deployment zone making sure he could not be shot. I placed two servo skulls over in that quadrant so my deep striking GKT could lend some support when they arrived. I also held my Dreadknight in reserve so he could come in and support that area as well. My opponent immediately broke two rhinos off from his castle during his first turn, moving them both towards the assassin. The assassin would need some second turn support and I had placed him far enough back towards the long table edge that the two traitor squads (Khorne Berzerkers and Plague Marines) would not be able to charge him the second turn. Basically the Eversor was acting as bait to pull some of the traitors away from the bulk of their forces and it worked. My Venerable psyfleman was able to pop the Plague Marines' rhino during the first turn which stopped them from being able to move into melta range of the assassin. The Berzerkers disembarked so they could shoot their pistols at the assassin and scored one wound. The second turn one squad of five GKT arrived coming in on one of the servo skulls. Their shooting helped to soften up the Berzerkers who were then shot and charged by the assassin. I rolled a little less than average for the Eversor during the initial assault but his Executioner pistol shot combined with melee results and shooting from the GKT saw the Berzerkers dropped to only three left standing. The Skull Champion's power fist wiffed and the next turn the Eversor finished them off then died to the charge from the Plague Marines. The Dreadknight then arrived the following turn and proceeded to smash the Plague Marines into a bloody pulp. So for the cost of one assassin I was able to eliminate one squad of Berzerkers and one squad of Plague Marines. I was very happy with the performance of the Eversor and will probably use him again. The Eversor played a pivotal role during the beginning of the game - baiting two squads of traitors while also taking out the majority of a squad of Berzerkers. He is the cheapest of the lot and can manage a lot of damage if he makes it into close combat. G :rolleyes: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235469-eversor-assassin/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
nurglez Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 how did your opponent have 7 troop choices? and I hope you know that the eversor cant infiltrate, meaning he either has to run across the table, or hijack a transport, or outflank when given scout... I tried him out over a few games, but decided I preferred to have a second dread knight instead of an assassin (I first tried out a vindicare, and while nice, I didn't like the 1 shot per turn style of him). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235469-eversor-assassin/#findComment-2835661 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted August 1, 2011 Author Share Posted August 1, 2011 I guess my friend made a mistake in regards to his FOC - no biggie. It was a very exciting game. I didn't realize the Eversor doesn't have infiltrate. Otherwise I would have set him on the edge of my DZ and he could have run over to the same starting point. G ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235469-eversor-assassin/#findComment-2835671 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 Yeah, I still miss the glory days of Outflanking and melta-bombing Landraiders...(sniff). And of course, the epic 12" charge range which made everyone go 'oh god why' when he appeared in their lines. Stabby, you will be missed. The new guy just seems..gimped. I mean, the statline is insane, his pistol is better...but it just doesn't feel the same. When I need that Landraider gone, Vindicare happily explodes the engine block. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235469-eversor-assassin/#findComment-2835863 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted August 2, 2011 Author Share Posted August 2, 2011 He has fleet so he still has a pretty good charge arc. G :( Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235469-eversor-assassin/#findComment-2835953 Share on other sites More sharing options...
nurglez Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 indeed, but he lost his blowing up when he dies, and the wounding everything on a 4+... fleet isn't as good as assaulting 12 either... I wanted to like him, but he just didn't deliver what I expected ^_^ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235469-eversor-assassin/#findComment-2836005 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted August 2, 2011 Author Share Posted August 2, 2011 It's too bad I think when people get hung up on the past. It is what it is. I'll definitely give him another go. G ^_^ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235469-eversor-assassin/#findComment-2836021 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 It's too bad I think when people get hung up on the past. It is what it is. I'll definitely give him another go. ^Money. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235469-eversor-assassin/#findComment-2836093 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidoneus Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 It's too bad I think when people get hung up on the past. It is what it is. I'll definitely give him another go. ^Money. Well, no. When he costs 35pts more than he used to and lost 4 useful special abilities, that's a problem. It's not like he was especially overpowered before either; I only knew a few people who used him, and he could be dealt with if you knew how. But if you take something that was fairly priced and then make it both worse and more expensive, it ceases to be worth the cost any more. I feel the same way about the Callidus too, and the Culexus has always been useless. The only winner in this codex is the Vindicare, mostly because of Turbo-pen vs. vehicles. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235469-eversor-assassin/#findComment-2836148 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 I already went to bat for the Callidus here. While the Eversor lacks her deployment option, he does get potentially a LOT more attacks and has a lighting claw. I can definitely see his uses. Just because a thing isn't obviously broken or awesome doesn't mean it's neither; and vacuum analysis tells us very little. Assassins are no longer "throw this unit at that unit and win" solutions...that much is true. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235469-eversor-assassin/#findComment-2836155 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted August 2, 2011 Author Share Posted August 2, 2011 I have always liked the Cullexus the best... Shame most people don't seem to know how to use him. He should be able to get his points back versus most armies. G Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235469-eversor-assassin/#findComment-2836199 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 I have always liked the Cullexus the best... Shame most people don't seem to know how to use him. He should be able to get his points back versus most armies. The facts that he's hard to shoot at and gains +1 for each GK unit (or Psyker henchmen unit) you stick next to him make him pretty appealing. I also dig how freaked out my Eldar opponents will get with him just being on the table. I'll give him a try eventually, but he's very very low on the model/paint scale for me right now. As for "making his points back", that's another loaded term. If a unit contributes to either killing more than its point value (whether it killed its points value itself or not) or to winning the game (by contesting or taking out a small scoring unit for instance) then it's "made its points back" or, more accurately, proved its value. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235469-eversor-assassin/#findComment-2836207 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted August 2, 2011 Author Share Posted August 2, 2011 Yeah when I say 'get the points back' it could be indirectly. :) G :blink: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235469-eversor-assassin/#findComment-2836257 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidoneus Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 Keep in mind, I'm not talking just about theoryhammer here; I have used the eversor several times in the old codex. While he was useful, he was also fragile, and I certainly never felt that he was a bargain for his points. Furthermore, he was useful specifically because of the things that got taken out: Infiltrate, 12" charge, and wounding anything on a 4+ at worst. The Eversor was useful because you could infiltrate or outflank him (depending on whether you had 1st or 2nd turn) and then charge and annihilate a monstrous creature or unit of high-toughness models (bikes, plague marines, wraithguard, etc). Now, in the new codex, he costs 35pts more, and has lost all three of those fantastic abilities? And what did he gain? Frags and Synskin? Fleet doesn't count because it's much worse than the 12" charge, and Furious Charge is a poor substitute for his old Neuro-Gauntlet. My point isn't about mathhammer at all, nor about strict calculations of "making points back." My point is that every single reason I used to take him at 95pts is gone, and I can't see how he's worth as much now as a full squad of DCAs in a transport or half a squad of Strikes. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235469-eversor-assassin/#findComment-2836282 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted August 2, 2011 Author Share Posted August 2, 2011 His overall stats are much higher now... if he gets into combat he could conceivably kill an enemy HQ... he is an assassin after all. Like I said above I found him useful since he helped me to bait a couple enemy squads into a bad position. I think he has the potential to be a strategic asset... not so much the DCA. Honestly I thought he was horrid in the last edition without so much as a single frag grenade. What an oversight that was... any smart opponent would simply deploy in cover to negate him. G :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235469-eversor-assassin/#findComment-2836317 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 My point isn't about mathhammer at all, nor about strict calculations of "making points back." My point is that every single reason I used to take him at 95pts is gone, and I can't see how he's worth as much now as a full squad of DCAs in a transport or half a squad of Strikes. You might consider taking a skim through that Callidus thread I linked above as it addresses her similar changes. I think it's clear both of them are strictly anti-infantry and strictly for support. Neither of them are gung ho solo melee monsters on their own any longer. Since they're single model units they're easy (relative to other squads) to hide completely behind squads, scenery, and vehicles, allowing them to restrict the amount of fire they take. If you put a short-range assassin (or any short-range single model unit, e.g. Mephiston) in a position where multiple enemy units can fire upon them, understand that in doing so you're giving your opponent a choice: they can either shoot at the single-model terror or whatever else is about to engage them. Engaged units of course can't shoot them at all, so if a unit of PAGK is mired in an Ork tarpit, for instance, the sudden appearance of an assassin could swing that battle heavily in favor of the Knights. I 100% agree that their use cases have changed. I 100% disagree that they have no use. Don't give up on em. <3 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235469-eversor-assassin/#findComment-2836339 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sanct Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 I have always liked the Cullexus the best... Shame most people don't seem to know how to use him. He should be able to get his points back versus most armies. The facts that he's hard to shoot at and gains +1 for each GK unit (or Psyker henchmen unit) you stick next to him make him pretty appealing. don't most GK vehicles count as psykers? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235469-eversor-assassin/#findComment-2836397 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 I have always liked the Cullexus the best... Shame most people don't seem to know how to use him. He should be able to get his points back versus most armies. The facts that he's hard to shoot at and gains +1 for each GK unit (or Psyker henchmen unit) you stick next to him make him pretty appealing. don't most GK vehicles count as psykers? For restricted purposes...for instance, it's clear that a Psychic hood works on them but not clear that mind-strike missiles work on them. Whether they count for the Culexus or not I don't know off hand. Book is at home. Would be nice though, no? +1 per Rhino/Razorback as well as the unit inside? ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235469-eversor-assassin/#findComment-2836400 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sanct Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 depending ont he interpretation you could abuse the henchmen squads as well. Do you daemonhosts/psyker/mystics count as psykers? If so put them in a rhino, add a inquisitor with the psyker upgrade, buy a second and get an assault12 animus at bs8+ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235469-eversor-assassin/#findComment-2836402 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 See this thread here, where we all agree that - despite ambiguity - a unit of Psyker Henchmen counts as a single Psyker for the purposes of the Culexus; per the "etc" in their rules entry. Because, let's face it: assault 48 is stupid. There's no way they intended for it to work that way. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235469-eversor-assassin/#findComment-2836410 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sanct Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 Inquis + tech + strike +rhino parked next to a dread? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235469-eversor-assassin/#findComment-2836416 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 Inquis + tech + strike +rhino parked next to a dread? Actually, while we're workin the cheese wheel... Brother Captain w/ Orbital Strike Brother Captain w/ Orbital Strike Techmarine w/ Orbital Strike Techmarine w/ Orbital Strike Techmarine w/ Orbital Strike Culexus "body guard". A bit hit or miss...but I like it. See what I did there? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235469-eversor-assassin/#findComment-2836425 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sanct Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 Yea I see what ya did. Just trying to think of a hard functioning front line unit the culexis can support but i end up circling back to crowe with 2 purifier squads, tech with nades in a rhino. Dread stands nearby for the improved aegis as much as anything. Maybe add coteaz for lots of storm bolter henchies... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235469-eversor-assassin/#findComment-2836459 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 Sorry, I didn't mean to derail. I'm on the market for a model to counts-as an Eversor; I really dislike GW's assassin models. Once I found one, I'll definitely be fielding one on occasion. Not as often as my Callidus, but sometimes. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235469-eversor-assassin/#findComment-2836465 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted August 2, 2011 Author Share Posted August 2, 2011 I like the model where he is holding a head he just hacked off... its perfect. I imagine him just back from a bout of viscous troll hunting. G :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235469-eversor-assassin/#findComment-2836486 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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