Kantor + Sternguard semi-competitive list help

[LostProphet217]

Hello all, I have been a die hard Dark Angel :blink: player since starting 40K a handful of years ago. I am just now starting to look at SM codex, stearnguard appeal to me for some reason and I know Pedro makes them count as scoring, so I was wondering if anyone had advice on building lists around the stearnguard? Any help would be great! Thanks in advance.

[Brother_Fatiswon]

this really should be moved to the Tactics sub forum: but:

 

i think the standard of 1 scoring unit per 500 points still applies: except you need to consider the fact that your Sternguards will be cost more to field.

 

at 1500 points: i would take 2 tac squads and 1 sternguard

at 2000 points: 2 tacs, 2sterns

 

as for weapon load outs: others can add to this or you could dig thru the tactics sub forum for ideas.

[Something Wycked]

My personal style of Sternguard list is: 2 units of Scouts, minimum size and light on gear to keep them cheap; 3 full size units of Sternguard in pods or Rhinos, with 3-5 combi-weapons in each unit. At this point, the army is about 1250; pepper in some support units to cover your deficiencies (meaning, if you don't give your Sternguard combi-meltas, some Attack Bikes or Speeders with Multimeltas would be a good idea), typically taking the form of added firepower from vehicles.

 

EDIT: Check out DarkGuard's Sternguard tactica thread: here

[Marshal Wilhelm]

Hello all, I have been a die hard Dark Angel :) player since starting 40K a handful of years ago. I am just now starting to look at SM codex, stearnguard appeal to me for some reason and I know Pedro makes them count as scoring, so I was wondering if anyone had advice on building lists around the stearnguard? Any help would be great! Thanks in advance.

 

Are you thinking of starting a Marine force, or you'll just be using your DA with C:SM?

[LostProphet217]

I plan on converting a model for Kantor and using the DA upgrade spreus for building the Sternguard models. I currently use the robed marines as sergeants. Not really sure what the best (cheapest) way for creating / converting combi-weapons will be however. But to answer your question, I will be using my DA army for the bulk of the regular forces (the heresy :confused: ).

[Marshal Wilhelm]

I plan on converting a model for Kantor and using the DA upgrade spreus for building the Sternguard models. I currently use the robed marines as sergeants. Not really sure what the best (cheapest) way for creating / converting combi-weapons will be however. But to answer your question, I will be using my DA army for the bulk of the regular forces (the heresy :P ).

 

In my signature, post #52 has a combi-plasma gun, side by side arrangement.

The BA melta pistol and flame pistol both make for neat 'one-shot' guns, imo.

 

For the Sternguard bolter, use a stormbolter ammo clip, and get a targetor. Where to get these things? Idk :P

 

+++

 

Kantor is not a fave of mine, but that doesn't mean he cannot be made to work ;)

 

For instance, he has a i1 powerfist at s8. This is sad.

His army loses combat tactics, which is the perfect skill for Marines, who are a shooty army.

You still have to take two TROOPS choices, so having scoring Sternguard is not as great as it seems, imo. With Tau, you hold your own Objective with one 6 man squad of Firewarriors, and contest the other Objective with Piranhas, or whatever. Marines can do the same and so don't 'need' more scoring units.

 

Now that is my neighsay:

http://i918.photobucket.com/albums/ad29/Marshall_Wilhelm/Avatar%20stuff/1299503036109-1.jpg

 

But if you keep those afore mentioned half empty truths in mind, it will help you to capitalise on Kantor's strengths more realistically.

Have you tried using C:SM without Kantor? You might enjoy it as much or more than using Pedro.... :huh:

 

Make sure you capitalise on his 12" bubble of +1a. That, imo, means including a specialist assault unit, such as Honour guard, Assault Termies, or Vanguard.

 

You can do many things with Sternguard, they are a great unit.

 

Double Las cannon, and pewpew from the backfield, in a Rhino.

Kamikaze with Meltaguns and combi-Mg

Have them join a Librarian and use Nullzone or Gate as appropriate.

Double Heavy Flamer, and do drive bys in a Rhino.

[Cmdr Shepard]

My personal style of Sternguard list is: 2 units of Scouts, minimum size and light on gear to keep them cheap; 3 full size units of Sternguard in pods or Rhinos, with 3-5 combi-weapons in each unit. At this point, the army is about 1250; pepper in some support units to cover your deficiencies (meaning, if you don't give your Sternguard combi-meltas, some Attack Bikes or Speeders with Multimeltas would be a good idea), typically taking the form of added firepower from vehicles.

 

EDIT: Check out DarkGuard's Sternguard tactica thread: here

 

Kantor, 2 scouts squads and 3 Sternguard with combi-weapons is the core of my Deathwatch army.

By the way I found DarkGuard's Sternguard tactica thread very useful.

[Ming]

I use Kantor and Sternguard most of the time...the sternguard tactical blog is inspirational. Couple of things to note:

 

5 sternguard have (when assaulted) essentially the same number of cc attacks as a tactical squad.

 

A 5 man sternguard squad can kill more SMEs or Rhino equivalents per turn than a regular tac squad by shooting.

 

Adding Kantor makes them scoring, inspired (at 12"), and stubborn. And all LD9.

 

A 5-man (or 6-man) tac squad can do well in a las-plas razorback.

 

Sternguard should never be in a razorback (for points efficiency). Sternguard like Rhinos for tactical flexibility.

 

Tac squads do well to have a power weapon or fist on the sergeant. A comparable sternguard sergeant needs a lightning claw instead (and keep the bolter or combi) or fist (claw is usually the better choice).

 

Kantor is not there to be in direct combat - he leads from the command vehicle until forced to fight. His job is to inspire the troops at the schwerrpunkt, not be directly involved. And yes, the best thing to have under his command are nearby mobile counter-assault units.

 

You can try to emulate the effects of Kantor with another chapter master plus honor guard/chapter banner, the chapter banner can create a +1A bubble plus ability to reroll moral IIRR. Doing this though does not make sternguard scoring, but you keep chapter tactics and are not stubborn. A Chapter banner can also be taken with Kantor to make a secondary inspired bubble, but they do not stack.

[LostProphet217]

Thanks to everyone for their input, I actually had already read the sternguard cheat sheet before posting. I guess what I was looking for was more advice on building a list with a strong stearnguard presence if that makes any sense.

[Something Wycked]

Just like I'd said before, 2 Scouts units and 3 Sternguard units ;) About 1250 all on its own. Sprinkle vehicle-based fire support to taste.

[DarkGuard]

Thanks to everyone for their input, I actually had already read the sternguard cheat sheet before posting. I guess what I was looking for was more advice on building a list with a strong stearnguard presence if that makes any sense.

 

That makes complete sense, and you're not the first person to have asked this question. In fact, it's come up a lot that I may decide to expand the tactica to include it, but I probably won't get the chance until September at the earliest.

 

Anyway, the main decision you have to make here is how many Sternguard units you want, and how many Troops units you want. Remember that Sternguard take up Elite slots, even with Kantor, and so if you take three squads you can't take Terminators or Dreads (unless you take a MotF as well - Dreads only). Then you have to consider your Troops. You still need two Troops units. So you can either max these well, I'm talking about two 10 man Tactical squads in Rhino, and then take one, maybe two Sternguard units to either help take or hold objectives. Or you can min them, so most likely a couple of Scout sniper squads with camo cloaks, both at 5 men. The former option means you don't need as much Sternguard, so can take a variety of Elites. The latter option means you need more Sternguard to maintain a strong scoring presence. It's also fluffier for Crimson Fists IMO.

 

Anyway, by the sounds of it you're going for the latter option. You can do one of two things with your Scouts. Make them snipers and use them as backfield objective holders, while using the Sternguard to seek objectives, or putting the Scouts in infiltrate or Storms and using them to harass and claim objectives. I'd go for the former option, it's easier to use and cheaper.

 

In this case you want Sternguard squads, about 2 or 3, that can take objectives. In this instance you need them mobile, so heavy weapons are out of the picture while Rhinos or Drop Pods are required. I wouldn't suggest Razorbacks as you want the numbers to help you take objectives. My preferred build in this instance would be 8 men with a power fist, heavy flamer and 3 combi-meltas. The combi-meltas are always handy in case they come across tanks. The heavy flamer helps in taking objectives from cover, while the power fist is essential if you're attacking with them. In Pedro's squad consider a lightning claw instead, as Pedro already has a fist.

 

Personally I'd just take three of those squads and let them do their thing. They attack well, have range thanks to kraken rounds, and flexibility thanks to the rest of their special ammo and the heavy flamers and combi-meltas. The power fist and heaps of attacks, especially if Pedro is nearby, are handy for assault. Alternatively, perhaps fit one out for infantry, one for tank, and one for MEQ, to give balance. Or perhaps all for tanks, it depends on your metagame.

 

That would be my suggestion, although I have yet to use so many Sternguard squads like that. Also remember that Sternguard squads at 6 men with a couple of heavy weapons and a Razorback make good backfield objective holders as well, and do well at providing long-range fire support.

 

If you want give some of these ideas a try and let us know how they go.