Thousand Sons v. Death Guard

[psychoplatypus]

Hi guys,

 

Since Nurgle is the rival of Tzeentch, I was wondering if any of you have ever played TS or a Tzeentch-themed army against DG, or Nurgle-themed army, and what the results were.

 

Cheers!

 

Psychoplatypus.

[Valek]

they suffer the same fate as any marine army facing ap3 shooting, loss

 

never ever lost to plaguemarine's or bezerkers, but that comes in small to the oblits, and then you 1K sons just have to clean the contents, which they are good at,

Wind of Chaos and 10ap3 shots is even for plaguemarines to much...

[Brother Nathan]

really? i wouldnt have given the sons much of a chance. sure your bolters are ap3, but you wound on 5s and they still get their fnp save. which makes shooting them about as effective as them shooting you. same deal with them being init 3 an you being an attack less( dont think charging them will work at all for sons) seems to me youll have to be as reliant on other areas of your list as they will...

[Bloodwing]

No FNP, as the AP 3 ignores their armour. 3's to hit, 5's to wound, no armour saves or FNP. Seems to be pretty decent with the weight of fire. Plus with the sorcerer you get a power weapon in the assualt, so once their soften up sufficiently with the inferno bolts you should end up on top (barring any embarassing rolls)

[The_son_of_Dorn]

depends purely on the situation, 1k sons and EC's are underated, granted codex problems means theres alot of problems in compatability but ive had my blooddrinkers(ba) and world eaters crushed a few times by 1k sons.

[Brother Sergeant Scarus]

No FNP, as the AP 3 ignores their armour. 3's to hit, 5's to wound, no armour saves or FNP. Seems to be pretty decent with the weight of fire. Plus with the sorcerer you get a power weapon in the assualt, so once their soften up sufficiently with the inferno bolts you should end up on top (barring any embarassing rolls)

 

That's not correct. It's only against AP1/2 weapons, weapons that cause Instant Death! or weapons against which 'no armor save can *ever* be taken'. In fact the rule-book goes on to elaborate with a small list of comparable weapons (P.75)

 

It's not attacks that are strong enough to punch through your armor, it's attacks that go through any armor (Power Weapons, Rending, MC's etc).

 

Don't forget that Thousand Sons being Slow and Purposeful makes them pretty naff in assault, I've found that against Plague Marines there are never enough turn for either squad to wipe the other out (assuming equal numbers). The sorceror *might* kill one every turn, maybe, but as both sides are Fearless it's pretty much guaranteed to go on for the rest of the game (assuming no-one intercedes on either side).

 

Lets also not forget the effect that cover can bring into the situation - Plague Marines in cover with a 4+ Cover, 4+ Feel No Pain aren't likely to die too quickly, even to Inferno Bolts.

 

Of course, this changes quite significantly if the Sorceror has Wind of Chaos - as that does ignore all armor (and so no Feel No Pain), ignores cover and always wounds on a 4+.

 

So if you knew you were up against Plague Marine spam - WoC can be quite nice. The Plague Marines have the advantage of special weapons, which will cause more wounds than bolters, but at close range it wouldn't be enough to counterbalance Wind of Chaos.

 

It the cold vacuum of squads shooting each other:

 

18 Shots from Inferno Bolts (so 9 rapid firing TS) at Plague Marines out in the open will kill two PM's.

 

18 Shots from Plague Marine Bolters at TS in the open will kill two TS's.

[Hiro_Protagonist]

AP3 makes them into mariness vs shooting (rather expensive marines).

 

Wind of Chaos + Warptime = Sad Panda :lol:

 

Warptime on Aspiring Sorcerers makes for decent combat vs Plague Marines.

 

They aren't push-overs though because of our own failings, both in combat, and in vehicle busting.

[Evil eyeball]

My bro plays a Nurgle army,

[Xenith]

No FNP, as the AP 3 ignores their armour. 3's to hit, 5's to wound, no armour saves or FNP. Seems to be pretty decent with the weight of fire. Plus with the sorcerer you get a power weapon in the assualt, so once their soften up sufficiently with the inferno bolts you should end up on top (barring any embarassing rolls)

 

That's not correct.

 

Quoted to reinforce: AP3 does not ignore FnP. The only things that ignore FnP are the ones listed in the rulebook, namely ap1/2, attacks at double toughness, and close combat attacks that allow no save.

[BearRockWolf]

No FNP, as the AP 3 ignores their armour. 3's to hit, 5's to wound, no armour saves or FNP. Seems to be pretty decent with the weight of fire. Plus with the sorcerer you get a power weapon in the assualt, so once their soften up sufficiently with the inferno bolts you should end up on top (barring any embarassing rolls)

 

That's not correct.

 

Quoted to reinforce: AP3 does not ignore FnP. The only things that ignore FnP are the ones listed in the rulebook, namely ap1/2, attacks at double toughness, and close combat attacks that allow no save.

 

Re-Quoted to Bump and reinforce Harder- Armor Penetration 3 does not ignore Feel No Pain. Surely this ignorance couldn't be just as planned.....

[annabelle]

I think what it really comes down to is the skill of the generals involved.

[Excessus]

No FNP, as the AP 3 ignores their armour. 3's to hit, 5's to wound, no armour saves or FNP. Seems to be pretty decent with the weight of fire. Plus with the sorcerer you get a power weapon in the assualt, so once their soften up sufficiently with the inferno bolts you should end up on top (barring any embarassing rolls)

 

That's not correct.

 

Quoted to reinforce: AP3 does not ignore FnP. The only things that ignore FnP are the ones listed in the rulebook, namely ap1/2, attacks at double toughness, and close combat attacks that allow no save.

Just to clear things up, it's not limited to close combat, wind of chaos also ignores FnP...

[DavidKits]

I've seen a round of thousand sons vs death guard before... it was a very close and nail biting game to watch. such as when 1 unit of 1k's dealt 6 wounds to the Nurgle DP and made him go poof due to a round of horrible invul saves. hell even Typhus took a couple of rounds to the face... in the end though every game I've watched the Death guard have won. and for the most part in those games the reason for the win is not the ability of the Death guard or Typhus or anything like that... but the support elements seeing 3 units of Havoc's 2 with all missiles and 1 with all heavy bolters do horrible things to the Thousand sons mostly because they just don't have the speed to get close enough to deal with those long range guns fast enough.

 

granted though deep striking some terminators or using a defiler would most likely balance the fight once more... but the Son's player didn't really have any of those just 4 squads of Sons in rhinos and they just seem to get half way up the table before getting blunted and cut to pieces by concentrated weapons fire. in one round Typhus managed to run up between 3 units after being forced to get out of the transports and his Nurgle's raunchy death fart ((bad pun i know but its a joke we use at my local GW alot considering how many have fallen to the fart of the Managers DG army.)) ended up killing equal numbers to one squad of guys.

 

Maybe in the near future I'll see turn around games as even though the thousand sons player is very good and very tactical playing... just seems limited on what he uses right now.

[Rain]

People give their Aspie Sorcs WoC? Anyway, cater paribus I would say that Nurgle has the advantage here, more attacks, T5, and FnP for essentially the same cost. Even if you do take lots of WoC, getting that flamer template off against an equally mobile (rhino based) army is not going to be easy, that said, as someone that has played a mono-Nurgle army, I can attest that Nurgle is very vulnerable to small mistakes or bad luck. Get just one squad stranded out of cover and they go down to anti-heavy infantry weapons just as easily as much cheaper vanilla CSM, but it's a significantly bigger blow to lose them.

[Hiro_Protagonist]

Tzeentch Daemon Prince (winged) with Warptime and Wind of Chaos is an amazing balancer. He can easily get where he needs to be to drop that template, and with the re-rolls it's deadly.

 

In a pure Nurgle vs. Tzeentch match-up then Nurgle has the advantage. With both sides having proper support elements though it becomes a much closer game.

[DavidKits]

i will have to challenge a friend of mine to a proper show down of nurgle vs tzeentch... now that i have a real thousand Sons army :lol: maybe i can tip the balance and beat my friends DG!

[Ethrion]

I recently played a Thousand Sons vs. Death Guard battle and we mutually wiped each other out to Ahriman and 2 rubrics left for me and a daemon prince with one wound and a plague marine for him. Very close and enjoyable game indeed!