Chapter organization: is this reasonable?

[Justcar]

I love the Space Wolves organization, in that the more experienced battle brothers act as mentors to the others!

 

Would it be reasonable to organize a chapter with semi-independant companies, each with their own scouts and veterans?

 

1 company would garrison the fortress monastery and a couple of representatives from each company would train acolytes. When a company comes back to refit and refuel, they pick up approved novices as scouts and begin inducting them into full astartes, who are then mentored by the company veterans and the captain himself.

 

Thanks,

Daniel

[Astus]

A similar organization could work, but its advisable to work out how your Chapter feels about the Codex's organizatin restrictions

 

But it can work, just look at the Iron Hands or the Sons of Medusa (only examples of independent companies with veterans and scouts I think of right now, other than the Space Wolves)

 

hope this helps,

The Promethean

[Brother Tyler]

Yes, the proposed organization is sound. The Iron Hands are known to use a similar organizational structure. The Black Templars also have a variant of this, though organized and reorganized along different lines.

[Reyner]

Yeah that sounds good to me, now all you need to work out is why they did it. Was it how their primogenitors worked or something happened to the Chapter and it forced them to adapt?

[Justcar]

I believe the reason for them doing this (At the moment anyway) is two fold:

 

1. Their first chapter master (who they revere) was one of the only surviving (loyal) marines and first captain of a chapter that went rouge. (he led the first company in an assault on the fortress monastery in order to interupt the chaos ritual they were preforming). They do not know for sure, but it is believed that the chapter master was responsible for the corruption. So, he decided to run the chapter as a council of semi autonomous companies, who only elect a chapter master in times of need or massive joint cooperation.

 

2. They are stationed in segmentum pasificus, which is relatively peaceful. So, they often contribute forces for other crusades and actions in segmentum obscurus and so on. Because of this, many of the companies are away for years at a time, and they believe that it makes more sense for them to have their own veterans and scouts instead of having them on "loan"

 

 

Thank you for the responses, much appreciated!

[soddinnutter]

the reasoning behind the changes sounds good provided they never ever ever let the =I= find out. Sin by association is still sinful.

 

The organization itself looks good.

 

Are the scouts the new recruits or do you use veteran scouts?

[Justcar]

Well, I was thinking that the back story would go something like this:

 

1. Several companies go about the purging of a far away, but still viably close system, and destroy a chaos cultist uprising with traitor astartes mixed in.

 

2. It takes a while!

 

3. When they return, they find that their chapter has changed and renounces the rule of the Emperor.

 

4. Their Librarians say that there is a massive amount of warp turbulence building and that the veil is weakening (they are trying to create a daemonic incursion).

 

5. First captain Aethon cannot allow them to succeed, so he orders his remaining forces to assault the planet's surface and disrupt the ritual. He then calls for neighboring astartes chapters to come to his aid.

 

6. Even though they are outnumbered and outgunned, he manages to stop the ritual (by killing his former friend and mentor) at a TERRIBLE cost: He and maybe five veterans survive until reinforcements arrive.

 

7. The Chapter is declared Excomunicate Traitoris and the planet is subjected to exterminatus.

 

8. Aethon and his remaining veterans are judged untainted and go on to found the "Crimson Spears" chapter. (Aethon was also widely (relatively) regarded as a tactical genius)

 

 

So~ does that sound reasonable???

 

I would like to stick to that basic plot line, but would be open to changing details here and there.

 

As always, thank you for the feedback, it is much appreciated!

 

Daniel

[Justcar]

Hey all, just finished a paint scheme for them:

Tell me what you think!

[Hells Guardian]

I like the colour scheme alot, however I think it looks too much like the Sons of Orar chapter, perhaps experiment with half red half white? or it coulde be interesting seeing as they are called the crimson spears to only use red on fists, head and pauldrons, perhaps the majority of the 'crimson' is the blood on their spears ;)

[Ferrata]

I would avoid the "semi-fall to Chaos to get organisation changes", it is quite a common storyline (not bad in itself) and I find it also quite a weak one. A semi-fall to Chaos is a major storyline for a chapter, in fact it is pretty much the storyline for the chapter, so to use it to justify an organisation change is like using a shotgun to trim your nails.

 

What you explained in your first post could be summed up in an IA like this:

 

"The Veterans of the Chapter remain with their parent company instead of banding together in a Veteran detachment. Believing their experiences are better spent mentoring their younger brothers, assignment to the First Company is a ceremonial promotion over a practical one. Similarly, whilst all Scouts belong to the 10th Company, their training is completed within and by a single Battle Company. For both companies, the first and the tenth, it is almost unheard of them deploying as a single force."

[Justcar]

I would avoid the "semi-fall to Chaos to get organisation changes", it is quite a common storyline (not bad in itself) and I find it also quite a weak one. A semi-fall to Chaos is a major storyline for a chapter, in fact it is pretty much the storyline for the chapter, so to use it to justify an organisation change is like using a shotgun to trim your nails.

 

What you explained in your first post could be summed up in an IA like this:

 

"The Veterans of the Chapter remain with their parent company instead of banding together in a Veteran detachment. Believing their experiences are better spent mentoring their younger brothers, assignment to the First Company is a ceremonial promotion over a practical one. Similarly, whilst all Scouts belong to the 10th Company, their training is completed within and by a single Battle Company. For both companies, the first and the tenth, it is almost unheard of them deploying as a single force."

 

 

I would like to make the distinction that THEIR chapter has not fallen to chaos, even partially.

 

I would like their first chapter master to be someone who was a loyal surviver of a traitor chapter and fought against it (somewhat like Loken (only he was away while the corruption occurred and not involved in it at all).

 

Their changes are a result of their first chapter master's chapter being torn asunder by chaos. I think that that would be a fairily significant event and change the chapter masters views on how he should organize this new chapter...

 

I mainly wanted to do this because I wanted to:

 

1. make my first chapter master worthy of their reverence (they refer to themselves as the "Sons of Aethon", and anytime a chapter master is elected he takes on the ceremonial title of Lord Aethon)

 

2. have their first chapter master be the surviver of a devastated chapter

 

3. create a renegade chapter that I could then extrapolate on (i.e. the Dark Prophets)

 

 

 

... so I WOULD like to keep that if at all possible. Do these explanations make a little more sense of the issue??

 

 

 

 

 

.... Also, the painter got messed up! it is supposed to be a 50/50 mix of bestial brown and blood red on all areas except for the eagle, the shoulder pad, and the backpack's vents, with blue lenses. The color on the models is a different tone than the sons of Orar :)

 

 

Also, more information: Their chapter symbol is a red spear vertically struck through a skull with the symbol of their company burned on the skull's forehead. So, the company of the master of the watch would have an eye burned into the skull... etc. etc.

 

Thoughts?

 

As always comments are greatly appreciated! :lol:

[Justcar]

the reasoning behind the changes sounds good provided they never ever ever let the =I= find out. Sin by association is still sinful.

 

The organization itself looks good.

 

Are the scouts the new recruits or do you use veteran scouts?

 

 

They use new recruits as scouts as dictated by the codex astartes, (They are still very much a codex chapter aside from a minor deviation in command structure) :lol:

 

Thanks!

[Justcar]

I like the colour scheme alot, however I think it looks too much like the Sons of Orar chapter, perhaps experiment with half red half white? or it coulde be interesting seeing as they are called the crimson spears to only use red on fists, head and pauldrons, perhaps the majority of the 'crimson' is the blood on their spears :lol:

 

I think the main cause is my lack of marine-painter-foo. The color scheme I have used on a couple of test models is a darker, brownish red, so in the "flesh" the color is quite different! ;)

 

I do like the idea about the blood on their spears, perhaps I could make it a battle honor? One for slaying an enemy champion in battle??

 

thanks!

 

Daniel

[Ferrata]

Easy on the multiple replies - we have an edit function that is really handy.

 

I would like their first chapter master to be someone who was a loyal surviver of a traitor chapter and fought against it (somewhat like Loken (only he was away while the corruption occurred and not involved in it at all).

Okay, there is a little wiggle room here however I am not sure about the logic of giving command to a loyalist member of the traitor chapter - would the Imperium trust him? This could be used as a useful tool as the chapter feels like it is constantly being watched/judged.

 

If the Organisation change and the Chaos-thing are two separate events then it is good, just don't make it "We have a different organisation because we nearly fell/don't like chaos"

[Justcar]

Easy on the multiple replies - we have an edit function that is really handy.

 

I would like their first chapter master to be someone who was a loyal surviver of a traitor chapter and fought against it (somewhat like Loken (only he was away while the corruption occurred and not involved in it at all).

Okay, there is a little wiggle room here however I am not sure about the logic of giving command to a loyalist member of the traitor chapter - would the Imperium trust him? This could be used as a useful tool as the chapter feels like it is constantly being watched/judged.

 

If the Organisation change and the Chaos-thing are two separate events then it is good, just don't make it "We have a different organisation because we nearly fell/don't like chaos"

 

 

haha, sorry I will try to be more concise in the future :D

 

Definitely, the chapter organization mostly comes from the fact that they send battle groups far and wide for a VERY long time. The "no chapter master unless elected for a specific campaign" thing would be Aethon's way of keeping taint from affecting an entire chapter.

 

But this is much more a "learn from the mistakes of others" kind of thing.

 

Addressing giving him command: he is going to come back and find his chapter tainted and immediately calls for aid and starts a series of gorilla attacks to shut down their ritual.

 

The point being that he wasn't THERE for the corruption and fought against it (I like that idea because he would set an example for his chapter in that action). Do you think this, combined with him being "tested" for purity, etc. would be reasonable? I mean, they let Lysander back, Ventris and Passanius back, etc. etc.

 

Also, I was trying to avoid "name dropping" so I was going to have near by astartes chapters destroy the planet. Given the need for him to be certified untainted, would it be justified to bring the Grey Knights in on this??

 

I do like the idea of this making them feel the need to "prove" themselves, I think that it would go along well with the feel I want to give them anyway!!

 

As always, thank you for the comments and feedback!

 

Daniel

[Marshal Rohr]

The Space Wolves dont really deviate from the tactical organization of the Codex, besides including a differing amount of the units in question.

 

Tacticals-Grey Hunters

Assault-Blood Claws

Devastators-Long Fangs

 

The TiS and etc doesnt really matter, as their tactics will be the same, since pretty much everyone uses the same tactics, no matter how feral or whatever.

[Justcar]

The TiS and etc doesnt really matter, as their tactics will be the same, since pretty much everyone uses the same tactics, no matter how feral or whatever.

 

Could you define TiS? I am unfamiliar with the term...

 

And I see your point, though the space wolves DO ride giant wolves into battle....

[Marshal Rohr]

TiS=Time in Service

[Justcar]

TiS=Time in Service

 

 

Thank you.