who started this mess?

[Blacksad]

as I haven't yet had the time to read the books (still have about 70 books to read before I can even start with the Horus Heresy) and couldn't find a cut 'n' dry answer via the search function, I figured this subforum to be the best place to ask:

 

is it known who started this mess? how did Horus get into contact with the ruinous powers? is it like in fantasy, where a promising leader of good gets slowly pulled into the madness that is chaos worship, to be crowned Lord of the End Times, or Everchosen, or whatever by Bel'Kanor (and if so, is there a name known for that Daemon or Daemonprince?) or does it go differently?

 

the main reason for this question is my working on the fluff of my own army, which would be a lost company of loyalist marines who had been tasked to return with the head of the one that pulled the empire of man into dissaray, or not come back at all, so they set out to track down any bit of lore, knowledge and proof that would give them a clue as to who or what first planted the seed of Chaos into Horus's mind

 

sorry if this topic isn't where it should be, didn't know where else to ask :)

[thade]

The Lexicanum is your friend. <3

[Blacksad]

so... no clearcut name... excellent, I can abuse that and spin Bel'Kanor into it all :)

[thade]

so... no clearcut name... excellent, I can abuse that and spin Bel'Kanor into it all :)

errr..what? For a fan fic or something?

 

Not sure I'd go tampering with the core fluff, for my own work anyway. Opens you up to a lot of scrutiny. Better to find your own field to sew new ideas into. Just me though. <3

[Clewz]

Lorgar

[chaplain belisarius]

surely you mean erebus...

[Clewz]

or perhaps Kor Phaeron

[chaplain belisarius]

or alpharius?

[Grotsmasha]

Clearly it is all the Emperors own fault for turning Lorgar away from himself and into Kor-phaeron's, open waiting arms.

 

But.....back on topic, it was Erebus (a Word Bearer chaplain) who specifically started Horus on his path.

 

Cheers,

Jono

[thade]

Lorgar

Spoiler.

[The Emperor's Champion]

Kor Phaeron - Word Bearers Dark Apostle, Master Of Faith.

 

 

 

Kor Phaeron corrupted Lorgar, Lorgar corrupted the Word Bearers (including Erebus), Erebus corrupted Horus, Horus corrupted pretty much everything else that turned to Chaos.

 

People may use the name for Horus but, Kor Phaeron IS the Arch-Heretic.

 

 

is it like in fantasy, where a promising leader of good gets slowly pulled into the madness that is chaos worship, to be crowned Lord of the End Times, or Everchosen, or whatever by Bel'Kanor (and if so, is there a name known for that Daemon or Daemonprince?) or does it go differently?

BTW, it's Be'lakor The Dark Master

You've swapped some letters and stuck an N in there. ;)

[Codicier Lucion]

Kor Phaeron - Word Bearers Dark Apostle, Master Of Faith.

 

 

 

Kor Phaeron corrupted Lorgar, Lorgar corrupted the Word Bearers (including Erebus), Erebus corrupted Horus, Horus corrupted pretty much everything else that turned to Chaos.

 

People may use the name for Horus but, Kor Phaeron IS the Arch-Heretic.

 

What he said. Though technically Chaos started it all when you consider all things.

[atin]

Kor Phaeron and erebus corrupted lorgar, lorgar was the first primarch to falll ( as in the first heretic )

next erebus corrupted horus.

next horus corrupted the rest of the tratiors.

[Jareddm]

Just want to add that a bunch of primarchs fell independently. Such as Fulgrim becomming possessed by a demon. Or Alpharius's secret plans.

[Commander S. Caesare]

*spoiler*

DON'T READ THIS CONTENT IF YOU WISH TO FIND AND READ THE HORUS HERESY ON YOUR OWN!

 

Line of Heresy

 

Lorgar->Erebus->Horus (after Interex encounter)->Rest of the Legion (after Davin)

For more information, go to the address below.

! !

! !

! !

\\//

\/

[Dinks]

What he said. Though technically Chaos started it all when you consider all things.

Shh. :tu:

[Questioner]

The one who started it all??

 

Well, obviously, the Deceiver has been operating longer than everyone thinks.

[Grotsmasha]

Kor Phaeron - Word Bearers Dark Apostle, Master Of Faith.

 

 

 

Kor Phaeron corrupted Lorgar, Lorgar corrupted the Word Bearers (including Erebus), Erebus corrupted Horus, Horus corrupted pretty much everything else that turned to Chaos.

 

People may use the name for Horus but, Kor Phaeron IS the Arch-Heretic.

 

What he said. Though technically Chaos started it all when you consider all things.

 

What they said, but, going by your fluff of having the Imperium hunt down the culprit, they probably go after Erebus as he had the most face-time with Horus, as Lorgars posterboy.

 

EDIT:It was Erebus who stole weapon, that resulted in the need for Horus' "healing" session on Davin, which Erebus then led:END EDIT

 

As to who is most at fault for kicking everything off? I'm still putting in my vote for the Emperor. If he hadn't played his cards early and tipped off the chaos gods he was gunna double cross them, they wouldn't have stolen and scattered the infant Primarchs, leaving them to actually mature under the Emperors guidance. Well thats IMHO, at least,

 

Cheers,

Jono

[2000AD]

Kor Phaeron - Word Bearers Dark Apostle, Master Of Faith.

 

 

 

Kor Phaeron corrupted Lorgar, Lorgar corrupted the Word Bearers (including Erebus), Erebus corrupted Horus, Horus corrupted pretty much everything else that turned to Chaos.

 

People may use the name for Horus but, Kor Phaeron IS the Arch-Heretic.

 

 

I beg to differ..... Erebus was corrupt from the get go...... he was tainted more by chaos than Kor Phareon

[The Emperor's Champion]

To quote Lexicanum:

Kor Phaeron was Lorgar's spiritual advisor on Colchis and the Primarch trusted his counsel most of all. Kor Phaeron followed the Primarch through all his battles against the Covenant, providing him spiritual guidance as the battles seemed to have no end. As Lorgar took command of his Legion, Kor Phaeron became his second in command, leading the First Company of the Word Bearers.

At the beginning of the Horus Heresy, Lorgar had received a reprimand from the Emperor for the long delays in making worlds compliant, and Lorgar retreated into his quarters for a month. As the chapter orbited planet 47-16, awaiting orders from their Primarch, Kor Phaeron came at odds with Sor Talgron, Captain of the 34th Company, over how the Word Bearers should handle worlds to be brought into compliance. Other than Erebus, the First Chaplain of the Word Bearers, Kor Phaeron is the only other to be permitted access to Lorgar during his month-long retreat. As Lorgar emerged from his seclusion, and commanded the elimination of the population on 47-16, it was Kor Phaeron's First Company that executed the remaining populace even after it became apparent that they were already worshipping the Emperor.

Kor Phaeron became Master of the Faith, and it was his influence that eventually corrupted the Word Bearers legion, and led to the legion giving itself over to the Powers of Chaos.

 

Erebus was just the first Chaplain. He took his cues from Lorgar and Kor Phaeron.

[2000AD]

Erebus was just the first Chaplain. He took his cues from Lorgar and Kor Phaeron.

 

Erebus held the prestigious position of First Chaplain of the Word Bearers Space Marine Legion during the rise of Horus to the rank of Warmaster and the end of the Great Crusade. He was a fearsome and intimidating Astartes warrior, and wore tattoos depicting sections of the Book of Lorgar across his shaven scalp, to terrify his enemies. Erebus was the first of the Space Marines to knowingly turn to Chaos and he was personally responsible for corrupting his own Legion's Primarch Lorgar, Horus and the Death Guard First Captain Calas Typhon to the worship and service of Chaos. He is presently one of the ruling Dark Apostles of the Word Bearers Traitor Legion.

 

From reading 'First Heretic' it seems certain that....

 

1) Lorgar was manipulated by Phaeron and Erebus...... in many ways he was but a pawn.

 

2) Although Phareon always kept a belief in the worship of 'Old Gods', it was Erebus who understood exactly what it was that these 'Old Gods' were. It was Erebus who first pledged his loyalty specifically to chaos...... Phaeron initially was just interested in the worship of devinity.

 

And finally.....

 

In Greek mythology, Erebus (play /ˈɛrəbəs/), also Erebos (Ancient Greek: Ἔρεβος, "deep darkness, shadow"), was the son of a primordial god, Chaos, and represented the personification of darkness.

 

Erebus WAS the first born of the ruinous powers....

[Olis]

Erebus was just the first Chaplain. He took his cues from Lorgar and Kor Phaeron.

 

Erebus held the prestigious position of First Chaplain of the Word Bearers Space Marine Legion during the rise of Horus to the rank of Warmaster and the end of the Great Crusade. He was a fearsome and intimidating Astartes warrior, and wore tattoos depicting sections of the Book of Lorgar across his shaven scalp, to terrify his enemies. Erebus was the first of the Space Marines to knowingly turn to Chaos and he was personally responsible for corrupting his own Legion's Primarch Lorgar, Horus and the Death Guard First Captain Calas Typhon to the worship and service of Chaos. He is presently one of the ruling Dark Apostles of the Word Bearers Traitor Legion.

 

From reading 'First Heretic' it seems certain that....

 

1) Lorgar was manipulated by Phaeron and Erebus...... in many ways he was but a pawn.

 

2) Although Phareon always kept a belief in the worship of 'Old Gods', it was Erebus who understood exactly what it was that these 'Old Gods' were. It was Erebus who first pledged his loyalty specifically to chaos...... Phaeron initially was just interested in the worship of devinity.

 

And finally.....

 

In Greek mythology, Erebus (play /ˈɛrəbəs/), also Erebos (Ancient Greek: Ἔρεβος, "deep darkness, shadow"), was the son of a primordial god, Chaos, and represented the personification of darkness.

 

Erebus WAS the first born of the ruinous powers....

 

I'm going with this. :)

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

To quote Lexicanum:

Kor Phaeron was Lorgar's spiritual advisor on Colchis and the Primarch trusted his counsel most of all. Kor Phaeron followed the Primarch through all his battles against the Covenant, providing him spiritual guidance as the battles seemed to have no end. As Lorgar took command of his Legion, Kor Phaeron became his second in command, leading the First Company of the Word Bearers.

At the beginning of the Horus Heresy, Lorgar had received a reprimand from the Emperor for the long delays in making worlds compliant, and Lorgar retreated into his quarters for a month. As the chapter orbited planet 47-16, awaiting orders from their Primarch, Kor Phaeron came at odds with Sor Talgron, Captain of the 34th Company, over how the Word Bearers should handle worlds to be brought into compliance. Other than Erebus, the First Chaplain of the Word Bearers, Kor Phaeron is the only other to be permitted access to Lorgar during his month-long retreat. As Lorgar emerged from his seclusion, and commanded the elimination of the population on 47-16, it was Kor Phaeron's First Company that executed the remaining populace even after it became apparent that they were already worshipping the Emperor.

Kor Phaeron became Master of the Faith, and it was his influence that eventually corrupted the Word Bearers legion, and led to the legion giving itself over to the Powers of Chaos.

 

Erebus was just the first Chaplain. He took his cues from Lorgar and Kor Phaeron.

Sorry, but TFH seemed to very heavily imply that Kor Phaeron and Erebus were standing together, making the renovation of your list more like - Erebus+Kor Phaeron > Lorgar, Erebus >Horus > The other primarchs > their legions.

 

So Erebus would actually be the Arch-Heretic, not Kor Phaeron :tu:

 

EDIT: Somehow the >s confused my computer... :drool:

[Valtonis]

Kor Phaeron was the one that influenced Erebus not the other way around

[Billuriye]

We know nothing of Erebus' past so we can't say Kor influenced him. In fact Erebus detested Kor for his human frailties and undignified bearing in TFH.