Rules on blood talons

[OMordha]

So..with blood talons you get a +1 attack for every failed armor save, to be taken immediately.

 

My question is, do you still count the blood talon as a power weapon? if so then there is no armor save (except invulerables), and because it uses lighting claw rules you get to rerole failed wounds, and you can then lay waste to entire squads in one turn, as much as I would love this it seems a little much.

 

If not then are we to assume that a guardsmen can shrug off a punch to the face from a dreadnought?

 

I just need a little assurance that I'm reading this right because it seems to good to be true.

[Enzephalon]

Well.... As for the wording in the Codex it says that the Talons count as a Lightning Claw. -> +1 Attack if you field two, rerolling to wound and ignoring armour saves.

Concerning the additional attacks it says -> "unsaved wounds". There is no further specification. So you can of course take your invulnerable save.

[Captain Idaho]

Yes the Blood Talon gains extra attacks which also behave as Lightning Claws.

 

I actually think Blood Talon rules give a Dreadnought the effectiveness it deserves in assaults! Normal Dreads get a meagre 2 attacks and only hit on a 4+, which means all too often you get 1 kill or none and end up standing there doing nothing. Dreads should be engines of destruction, but they suck in assault and die so easily to fire.

 

Personally think Dreads should have 4 attacks base anyway.

[Morollan]

In short, you roll to hit, roll to wound (rerolling failures) and take any applicable saving throws, which will essentially be invulnerables only. For every unsaved wound you then roll an extra attack, roll (and reroll) wounds and take invulnerable saves and so on, repeating the process until no unsaved wounds are scored.

 

It's pretty damn awesome when you plough into a big unit and just keep on going :)

[sp4rky]

These Blood Talons are the bee's knees. Against other Marines you're likely hitting on 3's, wounding on 2's (with re-rolls). Then any kills you scored gives you extra attacks.

 

I run a Furioso almost every game and he regularly takes apart 10 man Space Marine squads before the nasty fists get to hit me.

[Captain Idaho]

definitely don't think there is anything wrong with their power and I'm not a Blood Angels player. Their power is hardly overpowered since they are slow moving unless you fork out over 200pts for a transport!

 

I feel the combat potential of a Dreadnought should be somewhere between the current rules for them and Blood Talon Dreads though, like 4 attacks base.

[Enzephalon]

definitely don't think there is anything wrong with their power and I'm not a Blood Angels player. Their power is hardly overpowered since they are slow moving unless you fork out over 200pts for a transport!

 

I feel the combat potential of a Dreadnought should be somewhere between the current rules for them and Blood Talon Dreads though, like 4 attacks base.

That's the thing. You have to get him where he is able to unleash his fury. Which can be a pain depending on the deployment options and the long range fire support your opponent fields.

I'm not even talking about fast meltas like Bikes, or speeders... or what not.

 

It's only 1 out of two games where he really smashes faces big time.

[Morollan]

That's the thing. You have to get him where he is able to unleash his fury. Which can be a pain depending on the deployment options and the long range fire support your opponent fields.

I'm not even talking about fast meltas like Bikes, or speeders... or what not.

 

It's only 1 out of two games where he really smashes faces big time.

 

I agree. All too often I find he suffers a weapon destroyed result just before being able to assault something tasty. Safest and quickest way is to use a Stormraven but that comes with its own set of problems! :wub:

[OoZo]

Blood talons dreads are scary as hell! Played against one last week! He had Mephiston and a fur. dread in a storm raven. Mephiston charged my sang. guard and had them for breakfast and his dread multi charged 2 units och assault marines.. First turn the dread killed 12 marines, and a powerfist penetrates on a 6! In my turn he had the rest for desert!

 

They are that good! And i loooove them!

[Morollan]

Blood talons dreads are scary as hell! Played against one last week! He had Mephiston and a fur. dread in a storm raven. Mephiston charged my sang. guard and had them for breakfast and his dread multi charged 2 units och assault marines.. First turn the dread killed 12 marines, and a powerfist penetrates on a 6! In my turn he had the rest for desert!

 

They are that good! And i loooove them!

 

If it was me, I'd have done it the other way round. Meph vs Sanguinary Guard is a bad choice due to their power weapons and his lack of an invulnerable. Sure he'll probably kill them before they even strike back but it's not guaranteed. He's probably better off with the assault squads and let the dread take the SG down.

[Drachnon]

I usually drop pod mine and try to give him cover from the drop pod against the opponents anti tank weaponry. More often then not the opponent will be completely focused on the dread and ignore the rest of the army for 1 or 2 turns. So far my Furioso has cut his way through quite a few squads, the last being an IG blob squad which went down in 2 turns.

[OMordha]

I was planning on using mine with a drop pod so try to rule out the risk of him getting destroyed before he did anything, my girlfriend loves lascannons and they tend to tear my dreads apart.

[Bradley Powers]

It's only 1 out of two games where he really smashes faces big time.

 

Unless you take 3! I played a game last night where one Furioso with Talons got immobilized just outside of combat, the other chewed through a couple of squads, and my DC Dreadnought went on a complete rampage, dropping like 30 models (many times his points cost) over the course of the game. Mephiston just barely beat him out for game MVP.

 

I <3 Dreadnoughts. Then again, I build robots for a living. Coincidence? I think not.

[sp4rky]

As they say, why take 1 of something when you can take 3?

 

Now my ForgeWorld delivery has come through I suspect 2 Furiosos will make regular appearances in my games from now on.

 

Just need some Storm Ravens or Drop Pods to use as postmen and I'm all set :tu:

[Xenith]

If it was me, I'd have done it the other way round. Meph vs Sanguinary Guard is a bad choice due to their power weapons and his lack of an invulnerable. Sure he'll probably kill them before they even strike back but it's not guaranteed. He's probably better off with the assault squads and let the dread take the SG down.

 

Id disagree with you there, he made the right choice. The sang guard go after mephy, and need 6's to wound, assuming any survived at all. Against the assault squads, there will always be at least 2 powerfists + independant characters ready to strike back, the fists wound on twos.

[Bradley Powers]

As they say, why take 1 of something when you can take 3?

 

Now my ForgeWorld delivery has come through I suspect 2 Furiosos will make regular appearances in my games from now on.

 

Just need some Storm Ravens or Drop Pods to use as postmen and I'm all set ^_^

 

 

Yeah, I'm loving having 3 stormravens with juicy dreadnought centers. ^_^

[Morticon]

and his dread multi charged 2 units och assault marines..

 

Then he cheated you, or you cheated yourself.

This is mathematically improbable!! ie: the chances of it happening are so, so, so tiny, its next to impossible in a regular game.

[Deus_Sanguinius]

Maybe I don't get the intention of your post right, but the possibility to multi-charge 2 different units with a Dread isn't that unrealistic from my experience.

 

Cheers

Sang

[SamaNagol]

When you move a model into assault, you have to move the closest model into b2b with the closest model. So it being possible to do that AND still engage another unit is very unlikely unless the units were mingled between each other.

[Deus_Sanguinius]

Or the 2 units are standing very close together. :blush:

[JamesI]

Actually, the way the rules for multi charging are written, the first model can not multi-charge. Only the second and later models in a unit can multicharge.

[Leonaides]

Or the 2 units are standing very close together. :tu:

Close together doesnt cut it - if the dread didnt move straight to the closest mdel, or moved slightly round the base of the closest model, then thats a fail.

[Deus_Sanguinius]

Actually, the way the rules for multi charging are written, the first model can not multi-charge. Only the second and later models in a unit can multicharge.

 

Ok, thanks for the clarification. So units of only 1 model are never able to multi-charge?

 

Cheers

Sang

[AbusePuppy]

Actually, the way the rules for multi charging are written, the first model can not multi-charge. Only the second and later models in a unit can multicharge.

 

Ok, thanks for the clarification. So units of only 1 model are never able to multi-charge?

 

Correct. You allowed to ignore the 1" barrier that is normally present, but you MUST charge the closest model in the unit you declared the charge against and you are not allowed to contact other models as part of that movement. Single-model units cannot ever initiate a multi-charge, though they can be the victims of one.

[OMordha]

So then a dread with 3A +1 for charging and +1 for two CC weapons would have to use all 5 attacks against one model?

 

What is the 1" barrier