pucadubh Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 Hi wolf brothers, this has been argued before and the meta here in Ireland says no but I am re-opening the case as I believe the Chooser does block people from Outflanking within 18 inches of a Chooser. Let me present the case and then let me know if you agree or not. The Chooser description says "Enemy units may not use their infiltrate rule to deploy within 18 inches of a Chooser" The Infiltrate USR (i.e. the rule) says "Infiltrate also confers a special outflank move to infiltrators that are kept in reserve" so this move is conferred by the Infiltrate USR. My reasoning from reading the words are that you CANNOT use that move (conferred by the Infiltrate rule) to come within 18 inches of a Chooser when you outflank. Am I wrong? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235720-chooser-vs-outflank/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torvak Kyre Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 I would say no. The infiltrate rule doesn't allow you to deploy within 18" of an enemy model and the chooser would count as an enemy model. There isn't a restriction like that for outflanking. So I would say no. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235720-chooser-vs-outflank/#findComment-2838924 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schertenleib Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 No. Chooser does not allow Infiltrate. Infiltration is done during the initial deployment phase of the game, not later after a reserve roll. Also many units that have Infiltrate also have Scout, which also allows outflank. So if you did not allow for the Infiltrate they would still outflank with Scout. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235720-chooser-vs-outflank/#findComment-2839052 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmande Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 No. Infiltrate is Infiltrate, and Outflank is Outflank; Choosers specifically prevent one but not the other. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235720-chooser-vs-outflank/#findComment-2839117 Share on other sites More sharing options...
pucadubh Posted August 5, 2011 Author Share Posted August 5, 2011 Infiltrate is a USR, outflank is simply a movement conferred by the rule. Infiltration (& Outflank) do not just apply to the initial phase of the game as that is written nowhere in the book. Reserves is a mission special rule whereas outflank is just a movement using the infiltrate rule (directly under the heading Outflank). The section explains that outflank "means they are making a wide sweeping move to come at the foe from an unexpected direction". Chooser prevents deployment using the Infiltrate rule so we agree on that. An outflank move is conferred by the Infiltrate USR and the wording is very specific on this (read the words if you doubt me). Next up we move to the Reserves rule. The next issue here for the Chooser 'trick' is whether Infiltrate is deployment or not as it only applies to deployment. Reserves description bottom left on P94 (small rulebook) answers that "Once the units have been rolled for, the player picks any one of the units arriving and deploys it moving on to the table as described later" and the 'later' is whether you are moving on from your table edge, outflanking or deep striking. So they way I have it, deployment is essentially the moment the reserve becomes available on 'the other side of the table edge' and before we debate this look at the latest rules FAQ (1.4) and see what happens a Raider full of Termies that fails in a tank shock coming on ! That puts the unit >18 inches away from the Chooser so let us say 18.1 inches for simplicity. Movement is different so the unit can move 6 putting it 12.1 inches from the Chooser (assuming that's the direction they want to go). If they have Fleet and roll a 6 that is 6.1 inches which means the Chooser is the safe distance not to be assaulted by Infantry. If you are against Puppies, be grateful TWC don't outflank I am very successfully playing Wolves since the new Dex came out (nearly always with RPs & at least 1 Chooser up to the last FAQ :lol: ) and I am only seeing this now! I have given this a lot of thought and study since the light bulb moment as you may have noticed. Considering how often I read the rulebook and Dex (as I have a few other armies) I am so surprised I missed this TBH :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235720-chooser-vs-outflank/#findComment-2839557 Share on other sites More sharing options...
pucadubh Posted August 5, 2011 Author Share Posted August 5, 2011 TBH Fluff wise, if my Cyber Raven stops you sneaking up on me before the battle I would like to think he doesn't go asleep when battle is joined <_< Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235720-chooser-vs-outflank/#findComment-2839560 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 Yes, you are wrong. Although the Outflank move is granted by some unit's ability to Infiltrate (or Scout), it is not itself an Infiltration deployment. Valerian Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235720-chooser-vs-outflank/#findComment-2839647 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.