Brother Melice Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 Hi Melice, The threat of Garro really seems to come from the Typhon/Grulgor department rather than Mortarion himself. I appreciate that the aforementioned get their orders straight from the Grim Reaper, but the dialect involving Mortarion doesn't paint that scene for me. There is definitely affection within the dialogue, as you point out, so much so that it reads more, to me, that Mortarion is aware of a bigger picture beyond the Heresy. It's as if he knows that Garro could be the herald to the Emperor. Mortarion's last act of 'humanity' as he accepts now the extent of his choice, so allowing Garro to go he is, in effect, tipping off the Emperor. Perhaps a tad farfetched. Well yes, there is definitely affection from Mortarion for Garro, for all intense and purpose, he is His solder, His subordinate, His child in the sense of His gene seed was used to create Garro and the rest of Dusk Riders/ Death Guard. Remember that the Primarchs were lost before the end of unification wars, and teh original techno barbarians of Terra were used to create the Astartes from EACH gene seed of a Primarch. SO there is a sentimental bond with each Primarch and his Astartes. On more then one occasion a Primarch refers to his warriors as sons. But I did not even get a hint that Mortarion's desision for sparing Garro and redeploying him to the frigate was out of unwillingness to sacrifice him, but more of protocol, he could not be deployed with his injury to theater of battle. But giving him command of the frigate, and insuring there were means of disposing of him (Grulgor) the threat that was Garro would be neutralized (Mortarion was full aware of Grulgor's hate for Garro, with some plotting on Typho's part, he was perfect for the job.) Don't think Mortarion was having back thoughts about betraying the Emperor, and in no way would try to amend, or a last act of retention was in order. He was solmly backing Horus with his plans. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235754-question-after-reading-flight-of-the-einstien/page/2/#findComment-2867957 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perrin Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 Could be wrong but I seem to remember either Grulgor saying to Typhon or Grulgor saying to Garro that Mortarion was hoping that Garro could still be turned before Istavaan V, but Grulgor knew that it wouldnt work. Might have this confused with another loyalist mind. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235754-question-after-reading-flight-of-the-einstien/page/2/#findComment-2868044 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Lorne Walkier Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 But I did not even get a hint that Mortarion's desision for sparing Garro and redeploying him to the frigate was out of unwillingness to sacrifice him, but more of protocol, he could not be deployed with his injury to theater of battle. But giving him command of the frigate, and insuring there were means of disposing of him (Grulgor) the threat that was Garro would be neutralized (Mortarion was full aware of Grulgor's hate for Garro, with some plotting on Typho's part, he was perfect for the job.) I agree it was a solid plan. Even if Grulgor was a fail, The Eisenstein was not part of the Virus attack. If Garro had waited until after the Virus bombs to make a run for it, i don't think he would have escaped. He was able to use the attack as a diversion. The plan would have worked also, if not for Tarvitz of all people. If any other Astartes would have been the one to fight his way into Garro's space, the Emperor might have lost. Tuff luck bad guys. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235754-question-after-reading-flight-of-the-einstien/page/2/#findComment-2868350 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Melice Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 Well mate, that's not entirely true, Eisenstine was to take part in the attack, remember, Grulgor was overseeing the loading of the virus bombs. It was when Garro defeated him for the firs time, he gave the order to fall back and lie that they were having engine problems, or something in that regard, can't remember. But Mortarion had definitely no intention on sparring Garro and his loyalist cohorts. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235754-question-after-reading-flight-of-the-einstien/page/2/#findComment-2870304 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mc wazzahamma Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 Mortarion intended to turn Garro, right up until the last. As Typhon says to Grulgor: "I spoke to you before of our master's desire to bring Garro to the Warmaster's banner over Terra's, but we both know that Garro will not change." Typhon then tells Grulgor to kill Garro on board the Eisentein at the "turning point" (Istvaan III), which is clearly his order and not Mortarion's. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235754-question-after-reading-flight-of-the-einstien/page/2/#findComment-2870494 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brannick Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 @ Wazza - what you posted being a part of the concrete to my own theory behind the actions of Mortarion. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235754-question-after-reading-flight-of-the-einstien/page/2/#findComment-2870765 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DIDM Posted September 17, 2011 Share Posted September 17, 2011 Well, Garro, Iacton and Loken join the Eight (the original Death watch). I'm guessing Hakur and hoping Saul Tarvitz (even though I'm pretty sure he's dead) join the Eight as well. As for the other Death Guard, they could still be members of the Deathwatch, I mean an eight man fighting force, even one made up entirely of Astartes, wouldn't be very effective when they're supposed to fighting tons of aliens. he is headless, IIRC by Lucius unless they can fix that, which they can't, he is dead but yea, I think a lot of the survivors became GK hopefuls. But as we all know, 1 in a million hopefuls becomes a GK. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235754-question-after-reading-flight-of-the-einstien/page/2/#findComment-2878262 Share on other sites More sharing options...
reapercake Posted September 18, 2011 Share Posted September 18, 2011 Interesting theories. I could be wrong but I think I rember reading somewhere that often Chaos will play both sides of the coin (good and bad) just for the fun of it, we see them as evil but they don't really give a crap about the out come as it's all a game to them, i.e. It's not the winning it's the taking part. So often the'll do things/make followers do thing that seem contrary to their designs just to prolong the fun! :tu: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235754-question-after-reading-flight-of-the-einstien/page/2/#findComment-2878429 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Lorne Walkier Posted September 18, 2011 Share Posted September 18, 2011 Well, Garro, Iacton and Loken join the Eight (the original Death watch). I'm guessing Hakur and hoping Saul Tarvitz (even though I'm pretty sure he's dead) join the Eight as well. As for the other Death Guard, they could still be members of the Deathwatch, I mean an eight man fighting force, even one made up entirely of Astartes, wouldn't be very effective when they're supposed to fighting tons of aliens. he is headless, IIRC by Lucius unless they can fix that, which they can't, he is dead but yea, I think a lot of the survivors became GK hopefuls. But as we all know, 1 in a million hopefuls becomes a GK. Tarvitz was not killed by Lucius, though he did try. When the bombs begin to fall at the end of the war on Istvaan III, Tarvitz is seeking a "miracle" to save him and the 100 or so Astartes he is with. Solomon Demeter was killed by Lucius though and you might be thinking of him. I do not think the Deathwatch will be apart of any of this. I feel any loyalists around will be apart of the Grey Knights in some way or be "retired". My list of a the8, short version is.. Loken, Tarvitz, Garro, Verran, Arvida, Qruze, Tarrasch, Rubio. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235754-question-after-reading-flight-of-the-einstien/page/2/#findComment-2878903 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DIDM Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 Well, Garro, Iacton and Loken join the Eight (the original Death watch). I'm guessing Hakur and hoping Saul Tarvitz (even though I'm pretty sure he's dead) join the Eight as well. As for the other Death Guard, they could still be members of the Deathwatch, I mean an eight man fighting force, even one made up entirely of Astartes, wouldn't be very effective when they're supposed to fighting tons of aliens. he is headless, IIRC by Lucius unless they can fix that, which they can't, he is dead but yea, I think a lot of the survivors became GK hopefuls. But as we all know, 1 in a million hopefuls becomes a GK. Tarvitz was not killed by Lucius, though he did try. When the bombs begin to fall at the end of the war on Istvaan III, Tarvitz is seeking a "miracle" to save him and the 100 or so Astartes he is with. Solomon Demeter was killed by Lucius though and you might be thinking of him. I do not think the Deathwatch will be apart of any of this. I feel any loyalists around will be apart of the Grey Knights in some way or be "retired". My list of a the8, short version is.. Loken, Tarvitz, Garro, Verran, Arvida, Qruze, Tarrasch, Rubio. it has been a minute, I'm almost done with Legion now. I fell in love with Loken and Tarvitz, a serious man crush. Loken will be in my GK army Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235754-question-after-reading-flight-of-the-einstien/page/2/#findComment-2881594 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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