Icee77 Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 As many of you know, the Emperor isn't turning out to be the perfect guy that everybody loves. He seems to be like a real jerk. I thought so too, but after I read A Thousand Sons, I had an idea. In The Thousand Sons, Magnus is able to see the future. It is also noted that some regular marines can also see into the future and make use of it. Thus, if Magnus, a mere speck of a Psyker compared to the Emperor can see into future, that means the Emperor can too. And if Magnus can see pretty far away into the future, the Emperor can see maybe into the 41st Millennium. And the Emperor can most likely see the paths that can be taken to lead to the best future possible. That means he must have picked the best future for the Imperium, the Horus Heresy. Although some might say that if he was able to see into the future, he could've stopped Horus and the others from rebelling by killing them, think of the consequences. The Imperiums Borders would not have been so wide. And another reason could be the Emperor's love for Horus. Its obvious that the Emperor loves Horus and couldn't kill him until the last second. Which means there might have been more than one path for Horus to take. Another theory would be that Chaos could have been blocking his Sight, to make him blind to the heresy. So what do you think? I'm not sure if anyone else had this theory and posted it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235758-a-theory-on-the-emperors-idiocy/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimtooth Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 Magnus was pretty much "allowed" to see into the future so that the actions he would then take would further the goals of the Primordial Annihilator which is revealed to be the Thousand Sons and Wolves eliminating each other as a threat to the Horus Heresy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235758-a-theory-on-the-emperors-idiocy/#findComment-2839501 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coryphaus 101 Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 You have read False Gods right? Cause in it the Emperor looks into the future and decides to let the Primarchs be taken away. And yes the Emperor is a real jerk. I even have facts (or at least my intepretations of facts) to back it up if anyone doubts it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235758-a-theory-on-the-emperors-idiocy/#findComment-2839547 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimtooth Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 My theory has always been that the Emperor did what he did because he knew what happened to the Eldar. The whole concept that humankind only truly reaches their potential when faced with conflict is what I believe the Emperor planned to do instead of following the path of the Eldar race, that when faced with zero conflict created Chaos. So the Emperor, knowing Chaos, just orchestrated the continued survival of the human race by manufacturing a continuous conflict which does two things; 1. Allows humankind to see reach their full potential through the fires of conflict. 2. Prevents humankind from following the same path as the Eldar race in an unopposed utopian galaxy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235758-a-theory-on-the-emperors-idiocy/#findComment-2839595 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadDoc Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 You have read False Gods right? Cause in it the Emperor looks into the future and decides to let the Primarchs be taken away. And yes the Emperor is a real jerk. I even have facts to back it up if anyone doubts it. Actual facts or liberal interpretation of the given facts? Thats a legitimate question, not an attack, just so you don't get the wrong end of the stick. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235758-a-theory-on-the-emperors-idiocy/#findComment-2839625 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skolia Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 I thought the Chaos Gods started working to cloud the Emperor's ability to divine the future so he didn't have as much time to prepare as he would otherwise have had? Or am I confusing Warhammer 30K with Star Wars? :lol: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235758-a-theory-on-the-emperors-idiocy/#findComment-2839640 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadDoc Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 I thought the Chaos Gods started working to cloud the Emperor's ability to divine the future so he didn't have as much time to prepare as he would otherwise have had? Or am I confusing Warhammer 30K with Star Wars? :lol: No, you have it right. Thats the way GW have always portrayed it, the Chaos Gods acted to cloud his future sense so that he wouldn't be able to see what was coming. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235758-a-theory-on-the-emperors-idiocy/#findComment-2839646 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coryphaus 101 Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 You have read False Gods right? Cause in it the Emperor looks into the future and decides to let the Primarchs be taken away. And yes the Emperor is a real jerk. I even have facts to back it up if anyone doubts it. Actual facts or liberal interpretation of the given facts? Thats a legitimate question, not an attack, just so you don't get the wrong end of the stick. I wouldn't call them liberal interpretations, bit they're my view on things that have happened that show the Emperor is a jerk. Or at least an idiot. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235758-a-theory-on-the-emperors-idiocy/#findComment-2839675 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadDoc Posted August 6, 2011 Share Posted August 6, 2011 I wouldn't call them liberal interpretations, bit they're my view on things that have happened that show the Emperor is a jerk. Or at least an idiot. I was hoping that wasn't the case. You really shouldn't call personal interpretations/opinions facts, as they're not. Its, at best, misleading. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235758-a-theory-on-the-emperors-idiocy/#findComment-2839681 Share on other sites More sharing options...
augustmanifesto Posted August 6, 2011 Share Posted August 6, 2011 I wouldn't call them liberal interpretations, bit they're my view on things that have happened that show the Emperor is a jerk. Or at least an idiot. I was hoping that wasn't the case. You really shouldn't call personal interpretations/opinions facts, as they're not. Its, at best, misleading. Yeah, on the subject of the Emperor using the power of Chaos etc. to create the Primarch's, those were visions presented to the Word Bearers -- Logar IIRC -- by a Chaos Daemon. That does not necessarily make the claims wrong, but makes them one of multiple perspectives and, in this case, a perspective which is likely exaggerating the facts at absolute best. Same thing with the ending of Legion, more or less -- A D-B has indicated this issue a number of times. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235758-a-theory-on-the-emperors-idiocy/#findComment-2839682 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coryphaus 101 Posted August 6, 2011 Share Posted August 6, 2011 Fair point. I guess I didn't really think about that. But also there are a few things that the Big E really didn't handle that well (Magnus and Lorgar being publicly humiliating, Angron). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235758-a-theory-on-the-emperors-idiocy/#findComment-2839748 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zynk Kaladin Posted August 6, 2011 Share Posted August 6, 2011 sigh We never get to see the Emperor's perspective on things, so really we only have biased truths and opinionated facts on his actions. These accusations against the Emperor have no real foundation to them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235758-a-theory-on-the-emperors-idiocy/#findComment-2839755 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coryphaus 101 Posted August 6, 2011 Share Posted August 6, 2011 You really do have to hand it GW and the writers of the series. In the Luna Wolves books they make the Emperor seen like an uncaring :o more concerned with himself than humanity. Then you read things like the big Horus Heresy Collected Visions book and you can't help but be awed by his intelligence and power. I think GW have purposely not given us the Emperor's story because than the world of the 41st millennia would make sense and everyone would pick one side in this debate. And that would be boring. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235758-a-theory-on-the-emperors-idiocy/#findComment-2839798 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted August 6, 2011 Share Posted August 6, 2011 These sorts of posts have no real susbtance to back them up. Saying The Emperor is a "jerk" is basically saying all the machinations of Chaos, all the personality of the Primarches, their history, their experiences, the 200 years the Emperor lead the Crusade etc, all meant nothing. It completely belittles everything and misses the whole point. So you think after 200 years of guidance the Primarches are so weak they will fall apart after only a couple of years is all because he wasn't there to hold their hands? Get out of it! The Emperor was the best thing to happen to Humanity and everything was going towards to his final plans for humanity like a charm. His one mistake was tolerance and mercy to his son Lorgar. That gave the Chaos Gods the opening they needed. Without that act of clemancy, even Magnus' mistakes wouldn't of occurred. When the Emperor left the Crusade he did so with a very important plan in mind, one so important contact with even his Warmaster was removed. We know the old Collected Visions interpretation of his plans was webway related, but the Heresy series has made it clear there is more to it than this, much more. So calling the Emperor an idiot doesn't really hold water. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235758-a-theory-on-the-emperors-idiocy/#findComment-2839817 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coryphaus 101 Posted August 6, 2011 Share Posted August 6, 2011 That's not what I meant at all. Perhaps I worded my post too strongly. I wasn't trying too belittle anything that has happened in the Warhammer universe, just saying that for a great and powerful being, the Emperor was very human. There were some things that happened that he must have seen coming and stopped easily and yet he stayed back. For example, in False Gods, when Horus is in the Primarchs creation chamber and the Primarchs get swept up, the Emperor recognises Horus and must know what going to happen if he let's the Primarchs be sucked up and away. When he comes to meet Angron he could have gotten him to come join the Great Crusade in a manner that didn't involve Angron looking down on his warriors as they're slaughtered. The key turning point, that has already been mentioned, is the public humiliation of Lorgar. If he'd just quietly taken him off to the side and talked to him the Heresy probably wouldn't have turned out the way it has. Kor Phaeron and Erebus are also quite influential in this, indeed in the Dornian Heresy Kor Phaeron doesn't even become a marine and so Lorgar doesn't fall. Well yeah. So that's my take in the Heresy (or at least part if the Heresy) but I think it would be interesting if GW bought out the Emperor's take. Of course this would mean it would put everything into crystal clear perspective and then everyone would choose the same side in this because it's obviously the right one(I'm not sure which it is. A book could be written and show the Emperor was actually more concerned in reaching Godhood them in humanity, or it could show that he did have humanities best interests at heart and he thought the things he did would have had a different effect then they did). Sorry for ranting. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235758-a-theory-on-the-emperors-idiocy/#findComment-2839873 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unintentional Batman Posted August 6, 2011 Share Posted August 6, 2011 Humanity is better off wiped out than to live under the Carrion God. Emperor was a bit of a jerk and an idiot but what he became, is Hell on Earth. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235758-a-theory-on-the-emperors-idiocy/#findComment-2839878 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted August 6, 2011 Share Posted August 6, 2011 Humanity is better off wiped out than to live under the Carrion God. Emperor was a bit of a jerk and an idiot but what he became, is Hell on Earth. Do you even read any of the fictional back ground published by GW or BL? The Emperor didn't become anything, he stepped up to the plate in the only way he could to save humanity. He become nothing, he dedicated his existance to protecting Humanity from the predatations of the Warp and guides the Astronomican. Hell on Earth? No, it's unpleasant in many ways, but you are thinking of a Daemon world. And humanity deserves to die on every planet just because there are unpleasant planets amongst them? If you are making those comments because you read Alpha Legion are a fan and assumed that was their position (i.e. Destruction of humanity) then you aren't a real Alpha Legionaire. That wasn't Alpharius' plan at all... :blush: I'm not trying to have a go at you, but it is an absolutely silly thing to say humanity deserves to be wiped out. It's senseless and the kind of arm-chair social commentary people make without ever experiencing the horrors of the real world. I appreciate a measured response like that of Corpyphaus 101 above yours. I don't agree but at least he has expressed his (rightful) opinion with a genuine explanation that made sense. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235758-a-theory-on-the-emperors-idiocy/#findComment-2839899 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_son_of_Dorn Posted August 6, 2011 Share Posted August 6, 2011 I think the Emperor doesnt really have a massive choice in this matter,I think he has to look at things statistically and just enjoy the drama that comes along with it. in the scheme of the enitre univerese theremay very well be even bigger entities than him that can crush him, if other galaxies had xeno races that killed themselfs to make an even stronger pshyker's to beat there threats he may even be considerd childish amongst there interlect, but i digress what i mean is the Emperor may see the loss of his sons and billions if not hundreds of trillions of lives in gory horrific ways that leave mortal men dead inside at the mere thought of carrying out such things (aka letting Horus turn and billions dying) The emperor lets it happen because it needs to happen, if billions die so trillions may live and create more life so be it, hummanity is preserved and alowed to continue growing amongst the stars. He may be hated or loated by some, but he does what is needed and is the real guardian of hummanity. he may be god like but he is not a god. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235758-a-theory-on-the-emperors-idiocy/#findComment-2839937 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unintentional Batman Posted August 6, 2011 Share Posted August 6, 2011 I'll disregard the Emperor commentary as you obviously misunderstood the word "become". Hell on Earth? No, it's unpleasant in many ways, but you are thinking of a Daemon world. And humanity deserves to die on every planet just because there are unpleasant planets amongst them? Deserves? No. But it is better off dead than to live in the Imperium. Rather see the whole race go extinct than to have to endure the jackboot of the Imperium. In 40K world, basically, facisim is the only solution. That is not life worth living. If liberty is given, Chaos would win. But without liberty the life of mankind is of zero value. Thus it's better to die out as a race. Deserve has nothing to do with it. If you are making those comments because you read Alpha Legion are a fan and assumed that was their position (i.e. Destruction of humanity) then you aren't a real Alpha Legionaire. That wasn't Alpharius' plan at all... msn-wink.gif I sincerely hope your smiley implies you are 100% joking here and don't imply that I would post from a perspective of a fictious army I play in a miniature wargame... I'm not trying to have a go at you, but it is an absolutely silly thing to say humanity deserves to be wiped out. It's senseless and the kind of arm-chair social commentary people make without ever experiencing the horrors of the real world. That's just, like, your opinion, man... In the other cup lies the survival of mankind as a race, in the other the question is it worth to survive in the 40K future. It's pretty obvious we disagree on the issue pretty heavily. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235758-a-theory-on-the-emperors-idiocy/#findComment-2839957 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Tyler Posted August 6, 2011 Share Posted August 6, 2011 I've just gone through and edited out every instance I found of an inappropriate word, both in the original postings and the quotes (hopefully I didn't miss any). Everyone needs to learn to post in an appropriate manner or the thread will be closed. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235758-a-theory-on-the-emperors-idiocy/#findComment-2840016 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hephaesteus Posted August 6, 2011 Share Posted August 6, 2011 I was sure I had read that the Big E had always had sight of the the future, but only up to the 31st millenium and not beyond. I thought there was a quote somewhere or other to the effect of how much that bothered him as he had always known the play out of events before. (maybe someone else can help me out where that is from?). He basically got humanity within touching distance of safety before his future knowledge timed out. So yeah, he comes across as a less than sympathetic character at the moment. But as someone said earlier, he steps up and sacrifices himself for the continued survival of the human race. Without the knoweldge of how that is going to play out; and for the first time he won't be around to guide it. Pretty much atones for any mis-steps before that, I think. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235758-a-theory-on-the-emperors-idiocy/#findComment-2840093 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valtonis Posted August 6, 2011 Share Posted August 6, 2011 in False Gods that was a Chaos fuelled vision. anything in that cannot be said to be anything near the truth, it showed what chaos wanted it to show as for telling Lorgar off privately? that has already happened. it didn't work, that is why the Ultramarines was sent to destroy that planet and to tell Lorgar in no uncertain terms that what he was doing is wrong and will not be tolerated No, it is not better to die out as a race simply because you think that it is not the kind of life you want. as long as humanity endures there is a chance, hope that things will get better. and as for the primarchs falling, it has all to do with their human flaws and how chaos took advantage of that. the fallen primarchs fell because of the flaws in their character, except for Alpharius and Omegon who fell because they were stupid. yeah, a couple of Xenos filth let you see a movie and you believed everything in the movie, idiots Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235758-a-theory-on-the-emperors-idiocy/#findComment-2840142 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ring-around-the-roses Posted August 6, 2011 Share Posted August 6, 2011 Hey! no alpha-omega bashing, we don't know how their story could pan out, but i personally think it will probably be the most convoluted of the lot. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235758-a-theory-on-the-emperors-idiocy/#findComment-2840163 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coryphaus 101 Posted August 6, 2011 Share Posted August 6, 2011 In False Gods it us a chaos fueled vision but how much of it is a lie? Some of the things in it make sense, like there's no way the Emperor didn't feel the power swell in the Primarchs' chamber and he probably could've stopped it. Some other things are obviously lies but still.... I'm not saying the Emperor was a jerk to humanity, bur he's not as perfect as he appears. Again, I would really like of GW brought out the Emperor's perspective on the Heresy (but that would put everything into crystal clear.... yeah you get the picture). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235758-a-theory-on-the-emperors-idiocy/#findComment-2840166 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skirax Posted August 6, 2011 Share Posted August 6, 2011 So what do you think? I'm not sure if anyone else had this theory and posted it. Not to be a jerk (Which I do tend to be :( ) but pretty much everyone's said this before. All your proposed theories are widely accepted as the supposed reasons. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235758-a-theory-on-the-emperors-idiocy/#findComment-2840179 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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