Cracking Down on Tanks

[Black Arrow]

So recently there has been a lot of controversy of auto cannons and missile launchers. We all know long fangs are awesome, but could they be complimented even more by two rifleman dreads (X2 Twin-linked Autocannons)? The choice is up to you. Let me know because I know we all have ideas like this slip into mind. For those of you who are strong believers in MATHHAMMER. I would love to see the statistics vs. all sorts of AV values, and pros and cons of both units. Please have at it and keep this going. Knowledge is power, and power is obliterating your opponent. Now it is up to you.

 

Good Hunting Brothers,

 

Black Arrow

 

 

Units:

 

6 Long Fangs

x5 Missile Launchers

 

1 Dreadnought Rifleman

Twin-linked AutoCannon

Twin-linked AutoCannon

[maverik_girl]

I'd throw in a razorback with that Long Fang pack, either a Lascannon razorback or a LasPlas razorback. Not to mention an attached Wolf Guard with cyclone launchers.

[Bradimus Prime]

The Riflemen are a solid choice if your going for a more shooty Space Wolf army, I have run them in a few tourneys this year. They are great to start your shooting phase off with if your attempting to pop AV10 or AV11 transports allowing the Long Fangs to target heavier things. There are other benefits too, they can obviously move and fire a luxury the Fangs don't have and they can hold their own in assault. I had a single Dread hold up 5 Blood Crushers for the entire game once whilst I concentrated on the rest of the Deamon army. Another perk if your running a mech heavy force is the fact they add to your armoured vehicle numbers thus presenting more targets for your enemies anti tank potentially diluting the firepower.

 

I don't do Mathammer I've based this on personal experience and I'd say they are definitely worth it, the only downside I see at the moment is being out performed by the Grey Knight equivalent but then again they don't get Long Fangs.

[Black Arrow]

The Riflemen are a solid choice if your going for a more shooty Space Wolf army, I have run them in a few tourneys this year. They are great to start your shooting phase off with if your attempting to pop AV10 or AV11 transports allowing the Long Fangs to target heavier things. There are other benefits too, they can obviously move and fire a luxury the Fangs don't have and they can hold their own in assault. I had a single Dread hold up 5 Blood Crushers for the entire game once whilst I concentrated on the rest of the Deamon army. Another perk if your running a mech heavy force is the fact they add to your armoured vehicle numbers thus presenting more targets for your enemies anti tank potentially diluting the firepower.

 

I don't do Mathammer I've based this on personal experience and I'd say they are definitely worth it, the only downside I see at the moment is being out performed by the Grey Knight equivalent but then again they don't get Long Fangs.

 

 

 

Thank-you for both of your responses. I do not use math-hammer either, but I know some live by it. My list consist of 14 ML from the Long Fangs, and 2 rifleman. I have always thought they look cool and would always pose a great threat to light armor. Do you recommend transports for my long fangs? I cant find the points and I use to run Razorbacks to hold them but they were easy kill points.

[Silverwolf]

Personally I prefer to take a Plas/Missile dread. Same cost, while more versatile.

 

Taking them as GK is a must, 4 shot, str8 TL on a dread platform can't be ignored, but I'd be inclined to think that for our forces, a Plasma/Missile dread is probably actually a smidgen more effective, if not more versatile. Not a Mathhammer player myself either, but in the play testing I've done they seem to work better.

[Black Arrow]

Personally I prefer to take a Plas/Missile dread. Same cost, while more versatile.

 

Taking them as GK is a must, 4 shot, str8 TL on a dread platform can't be ignored, but I'd be inclined to think that for our forces, a Plasma/Missile dread is probably actually a smidgen more effective, if not more versatile. Not a Mathhammer player myself either, but in the play testing I've done they seem to work better.

 

 

Out of curiosity how is a plasma cannon/missile launcher more effective than X4 Twin Linked Str 7 shots?

[Wolf Guard Nostromo]

The rifleman has a regular place in my army... the 4 twin linked shots, move and fire, and ability to tarpit quite effectively is really handy. I've used them alongside predators for 'armour target saturation'... you can get two riflemans with autocannons and two dakka predators for 420 points. Pretty difficult target selection for your opponent, and 4 units that can advance and spit out 12 S7 shots to 48", 8 of which are twin-linked - this is the bane of light armour and offers plenty of alterantive targets to your more valuable troop choices.

 

They sit well alongside long fangs too - if you want a shooty army they would be a good addition. I have found the autocannons to be most effective, but the missile and lascannon has its place too even if it does seem overpriced on an AV12 body. I think plasma cannons complement a heavy flamer better in a closer support role - double templates are great against massed or elite infantry.

[Simo429]

I take a rifleman and they very rarely let me down.

 

Took one to the summer skirmish this weekend which was 12 games 500 points and out of the 12 games there was only 2 that it failed to do anything and that was when I had the initiative stole.

[Black Arrow]

I take a rifleman and they very rarely let me down.

 

Took one to the summer skirmish this weekend which was 12 games 500 points and out of the 12 games there was only 2 that it failed to do anything and that was when I had the initiative stole.

 

 

Do you think two rifleman and 15ml long fangs would be a good fire base?

[commander alexander]

I used to run the rifleman dreads in a Dark Angel army back when I played them (and they were the only ones who could have rifleman dreads). They always did okay, but when you put a dread in a drop pod with a plasma cannon and heavy flamer, he earns more than his points back in casualties. I could usually wipe out a small infantry unit on the turn he arrived, then assault enemy armor and blow it up the very next turn. In general, I would say whatever pattern of dread you put out there will work. If you are facing a horde army, and your playing a shooty list, (2) twin linked heavy bolters can be hell. Dreadnoughts are just a very versatile weapons platform.

[Bradimus Prime]

I take a rifleman and they very rarely let me down.

 

Took one to the summer skirmish this weekend which was 12 games 500 points and out of the 12 games there was only 2 that it failed to do anything and that was when I had the initiative stole.

 

 

Do you think two rifleman and 15ml long fangs would be a good fire base?

 

I'd say that's as good a fire base as your going to get in a Space Wolf army, more than enough firepower to deal with any army.

[Silverwolf]

Personally I prefer to take a Plas/Missile dread. Same cost, while more versatile.

 

Taking them as GK is a must, 4 shot, str8 TL on a dread platform can't be ignored, but I'd be inclined to think that for our forces, a Plasma/Missile dread is probably actually a smidgen more effective, if not more versatile. Not a Mathhammer player myself either, but in the play testing I've done they seem to work better.

 

 

Out of curiosity how is a plasma cannon/missile launcher more effective than X4 Twin Linked Str 7 shots?

 

More effective in that they're more versatile.

 

Twin-Linked is of course great, but with all template fire now simply scattering, minus firer's BS, the Plasma Cannon is almost twin-linked anyway as it rarely misses. Add to that the fact it's an AP2 blast, and you have a shot capable of dealing heavy damage to 90% of targets. Certainly more effective at dealing with heavy infantry.

 

Couple to that the krak missile shot for dealing with armour, or it's frag shot for those precious extra wounds on groups of infantry, and yeh, without getting into the maths side of thing I find them more versatile, and so on the whole, more effective.

[Black Arrow]

Personally I prefer to take a Plas/Missile dread. Same cost, while more versatile.

 

Taking them as GK is a must, 4 shot, str8 TL on a dread platform can't be ignored, but I'd be inclined to think that for our forces, a Plasma/Missile dread is probably actually a smidgen more effective, if not more versatile. Not a Mathhammer player myself either, but in the play testing I've done they seem to work better.

 

 

Out of curiosity how is a plasma cannon/missile launcher more effective than X4 Twin Linked Str 7 shots?

 

More effective in that they're more versatile.

 

Twin-Linked is of course great, but with all template fire now simply scattering, minus firer's BS, the Plasma Cannon is almost twin-linked anyway as it rarely misses. Add to that the fact it's an AP2 blast, and you have a shot capable of dealing heavy damage to 90% of targets. Certainly more effective at dealing with heavy infantry.

 

Couple to that the krak missile shot for dealing with armour, or it's frag shot for those precious extra wounds on groups of infantry, and yeh, without getting into the maths side of thing I find them more versatile, and so on the whole, more effective.

 

 

 

The only thing is with the plasma cannon in mind it is kinda a hit or miss per say. As in 2" spacing its hard to hit several targets and with cover now its hard to drop high value targets. For the points and the range 48" I feel like two twin linked auto cannons will burst light armor, but I do acknowledge that it wont shred terminators. I go against so many mech armies that i really just need superior and stronger fire power to handle them other wise they tear my mid ranged units to nothing from shooting.

[eyeslikethunder]

If your Meta is light-light med mech ie Rhino spam then the Rifleman is good choice.

 

But they are rather similar to the ML LF in role and can be found lacking up against list with death stars like LR w/ Hammernators or some GKT. Where plasma cannons(or some Lascannons in the LFs) are better for these and give your list greater verstility.

 

The other option is a Runepriest with Living Lightning with Chooser or Beastslayer. These pump out similar firepower to a rifleman. also psychic defence, cant be Stunned(big), one other power(so a bit variation), greater leadership for your units and extra close combat power. But cant tar pit and dont provide another mech target.

 

But in the end only you know the meta you are facing and if all you are getting is light mech spam and nothing else then Rifleman are an good option.

[Karack Blackstone]

My several cents:

 

- ML's for LF's should have been a GH in cost this codex, they really seem too good.

- Rifleman/men Dreads are great at hunting light tanks (AV 10 or 11) but fall off for higher armor values

- ML's or LsC's seem like a great tank-hunting option, yet having the right tool for the job means ML's being more versatile overall leads to them being spammed.

[Silverwolf]

Personally I prefer to take a Plas/Missile dread...

 

Out of curiosity how is a plasma cannon/missile launcher more effective than X4 Twin Linked Str 7 shots?

 

More effective in that they're more versatile...

 

The only thing is with the plasma cannon in mind it is kinda a hit or miss per say. As in 2" spacing its hard to hit several targets and with cover now its hard to drop high value targets. For the points and the range 48" I feel like two twin linked auto cannons will burst light armor, but I do acknowledge that it wont shred terminators. I go against so many mech armies that i really just need superior and stronger fire power to handle them other wise they tear my mid ranged units to nothing from shooting.

 

Rare is it that you see true and accurate 2" spacing on all units, specially if they've just deep-striked or disembarked. On average I'd say small blast templates hit about 3 models, while large blasts tend to hit about 5-6. The other thing to consider is the argument as to whether it's better to space or group vs templates. Against a low BS opponent, chances are if you bunch, they'll scatter off you completely, while against higher BS shooters, your better spread to minimise hits.

 

My regular opponents are Vendetta heavy IG with demolitions teams inside, and Rhino-based GKs. So my fire-power needs to be able to deal with pretty much anything.

 

GK Opponent runs Str8 Rifleman Dreads, however as I Pod in, they're not of high concern to me, and tend to be ignored for the most part. As to the Ven's, they're AV12 front, so a 125pt Str7 Rifleman Dread is trumped by a 140pt Pack of Long Fangs totting 5 Missile Launchers. Add to that the fact I've started attaching a TDA WG with CML & a Rune Priest with MoR using LL & TW, and Rifleman Dreads are next to useless to me, and basically a waste of points.

 

Hence my preference for the Plas/Missile Dread. The Templates help against horde units, and the low ap of the Plasma Cannon means I've something for nailing those GK squads as soon as I pop their transport. If I was facing TDA/PA heavy armies all the time, I'd probably even take 2 plasma cannons in the Long Fangs, and use Venerable Dreads with Plasma Cannons as well.