Cockroach Posted August 7, 2011 Share Posted August 7, 2011 Can someone (numerous people would be helpful) just confirm for me: A dreadnought does NOT have to take a dangerous terrrain test when assaulting a trygon as it IS a vehicle. And although it moves like infantry this has absolutely nothing to do with the trygons ruling for making non-vehicle models take a dangerous terrain test. A have money waging on this and I'm pretty sure I'm right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dswanick Posted August 7, 2011 Share Posted August 7, 2011 Perhaps you could clarify what about a Trygon brings up this question? I'm not sure what rule you are referring to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 A dreadnought does NOT have to take a dangerous terrrain test when assaulting a trygon as it IS a vehicle.Trygons are not vehicles. Also, you don't have to make a Dangerous Terrain test simply to assault a vehicle, so why would it be any different for a Monstrous Creature? If you're referring to a Trygon under the aegis of a Venomthrope's Spore Cloud, then any non-vehicle unit assaulting the Trygon would have to take a Dangerous Terrain test. This does not includes dreadnoughts, though vehicles normally do indeed take Dangerous Terrain tests (the rules for this are on page 57 of the BRB). So, the Dreadnought would not have to pass the Dangerous Terrain test, and its initiative would also not be lowered to 1. Basically, you're right but not for the reason you gave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan VK Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 "Walkers move in exactly the same way as infantry," (BRB pg73), but Spore Cloud clearly states, "non-vehicle enemy model ..." (C:T pg45) A dreadnought is a vehicle, regardless of the fact it moves as infantry, and is therefore unaffected by that portion of the rule. [EDIT: Seahawk is a ninja. :ph34r: ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cockroach Posted August 8, 2011 Author Share Posted August 8, 2011 Obviously, I know trygons aren't vehicles... i was referring to the dreadnought. (I thought this was pretty clear as the sentence opened with the words 'A dreadnought...' and not 'A trygon') And yes, I'm talking about the spore cloud thing. I also know vehicles do take dangerous terrain tests when entering dangerous terrain... but thanks for pointing that out. the question was in regards to a dreadnought assaulting a trygon. Dan VK understood completely and confirms that I'm right for the right reasons. I don't have a 'nid codex (hence why I couldnt name the rule in my original post) and only had a quick look at the rule when my opponent demanded my dreadnought take the test. To which I replied 'I think you're talking out you're behind' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 Seahawk and Dan VK got here first and they're on the money. The Dread is a vehicle; if the Trygon's rule specifies "non-vehicle models are affected", then he's not affected. Cut and dry. That the Dread "moves like a vehicles" has on bearing here; the ability's target set is clearly defined. It doesn't say "those who move like infantry take checks"; it says "non-vehicle units take checks". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
breng77 Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 Here is the better question "Why is your Dread assaulting a Trygon" Unless you have blood talons and furious charge (or at least blood talons), or the Tryon has only like 1 wound left, your dread is going to die more than likely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 Here is the better question "Why is your Dread assaulting a Trygon" Unless you have blood talons and furious charge (or at least blood talons), or the Tryon has only like 1 wound left, your dread is going to die more than likely. This question is more for the tactics board. :( Not that I don't agree with you...but then, if the Dread were the only thing in range and I wanted that thing to die...and really, what Dread would balk at the chance to charge such a behemoth? The Emperor demands its blood... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morollan Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 Here is the better question "Why is your Dread assaulting a Trygon" Unless you have blood talons and furious charge (or at least blood talons), or the Tryon has only like 1 wound left, your dread is going to die more than likely. This question is more for the tactics board. :( Not that I don't agree with you...but then, if the Dread were the only thing in range and I wanted that thing to die...and really, what Dread would balk at the chance to charge such a behemoth? The Emperor demands its blood... The Emperor should employ His vast psychic powers to determine what on earth possessed GW to give Monstrous Creatures 2d6 armour pen then. Dreadnought v MC is basically a suicide mission. Really annoys me as I often play against either Tyranids or Chaos, both of which have lovely MC's that are all too happy to rip up my dreadnoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
breng77 Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 LOL true, well as far as the rules go, then no you would not take Dangerous terrain from the Venomthrope (as the trygon has no such rule) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cockroach Posted August 8, 2011 Author Share Posted August 8, 2011 It was a death company dread. It ripped his trygon to pieces. His trygon was close to a venomthrope hence the spore cloud thing. To me this whole thing is a no-brainer... a dread is a vehicle, it has armour values. It 'moves like infantry' for the pruposes of how the model the model moves in the movement phase. But i guess it goes to show how different people interpret rules. Cheers for the replies anyway, the thread has been emailed to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
breng77 Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 surprised even a DC dread would Rip up a trygon unless it was already wounded (though the Venomthrope would be important otherwise you would have been I1), I'd have to check whether the defensive grenades would still effect the Dread. (3 attacks, hititng half the time, wounding 2/3 of that with rerolls, nets you 1 wound, then you get to attack again, but wounding 6 times would be tough, the Trygon hits back with 4 (I think, it might be 5) S 6 + 2d6 hits, with rerolls to hit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 Trygon has 6 attacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOBMAKENZIE Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 surprised even a DC dread would Rip up a trygon unless it was already wounded (though the Venomthrope would be important otherwise you would have been I1), I'd have to check whether the defensive grenades would still effect the Dread. (3 attacks, hititng half the time, wounding 2/3 of that with rerolls, nets you 1 wound, then you get to attack again, but wounding 6 times would be tough, the Trygon hits back with 4 (I think, it might be 5) S 6 + 2d6 hits, with rerolls to hit. With a Normal Furiouso 3/1 attacks 2/3 hit 3/4 wound 3/2 wounds 3/2 bonus attacks 2/3 hit 3/4 wound 3/4 bonus wounds. 3/4 bonus attacks 2/3 hit 3/4 wound 3/8 bonus wounds. (lets stop here since its below 50%) ~2.6 Wounds (21/8 for those of us that like fractions) 4/1 attacks 1/2 hit 3/4 wound 3/2 wounds 3/2 bonus attacks 1/2 hit 3/4 wound 9/16 bonus wounds. 9/16 bonus attacks 1/2 hit 3/4 wound 27/128 bonus wounds. (lets stop here since its below 50%) ~2.2 Wounds (This fraction is a bit too much for me to bother working out.) Its really not a great match up but try rolling through it a few time you'd be surprised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cockroach Posted August 8, 2011 Author Share Posted August 8, 2011 Where are we getting 3 attacks from? I make it 5: 3 basic, +1 for having a pair of talons (in brackets on profile) +1 for charging. Furious charge gives him +1 strength and +1 initiative on first round.. Hitting on 4's, wounding on 3's with re-rolls. Then additional attacks. I scored 5 wounds and the trygon was done. Hed already took a wound. He didnt utilize any defensive grenades if he had any. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOBMAKENZIE Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 Where are we getting 3 attacks from? I make it 5: 3 basic, +1 for having a pair of talons (in brackets on profile) +1 for charging. Furious charge gives him +1 strength and +1 initiative on first round.. Hitting on 4's, wounding on 3's with re-rolls. Then additional attacks. I scored 5 wounds and the trygon was done. Hed already took a wound. He didnt utilize any defensive grenades if he had any. Doesnt always have Furious Charge. I admit I didnt put the charge bonus in there but that is because the Trygon has defensive grenades when in a venomthrope bubble which does apply to the dreads. So the first set of numbers is the standard dready without FC. The second is the Death Company which I didnt even think about FC on. It is a quick adjustment though. DC Dready 4/1 attacks 1/2 hit 8/9 wound 16/9 wounds 16/9 bonus attacks 1/2 hit 8/9 wound 8/9 bonus wounds. 8/9 bonus attacks 1/2 hit 8/9 wound 32/81 bonus wounds. (lets stop here since its below 50%) ~3 Wounds (248/81) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilnar Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 If he was under a spore cloud he should have had defensive grenades, so no bonus attacks, or strength or initiative:p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morollan Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 If he was under a spore cloud he should have had defensive grenades, so no bonus attacks, or strength or initiative:p No bonus attacks I agree with but can't see why the increased S and I don't apply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilnar Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 Hmmm? Ohhh sorry, the dread charged, yes, no bonus attacks, but the S and I is useful:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.