Hyaenidae Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 Yeah, I know, dumb thread...but I was curious if I'm missing any of the known bodyguard / elite units of the Legions that have been mentioned thus far. I. Dark Angels- ? II. -Oops- III. Emperor's Children- Phoenix Guard IV. Iron Warriors- ? V. White Scars-? VI. Space Wolves- Varangi (until proven otherwise) VII. Imperial Fists- Templars (until proven otherwise) VIII. Night Lords- Atramentar IX. Blood Angels- Sanguiniary Guard X. Iron Hands- Morlocks XI. -Dammit, dropped the test-tube again...- XII. World Eaters- Devourers XIII. Ultramarines- Tetrarch (until proven otherwise) XIV. Death Guard- Deathshroud XV. Thousand Sons- Scarab Occult XVI. Luna Wolves / Sons of Horus- Justerian XVII. Word Bearers- Gal Vorbek XVIII. Salamanders- Pyre Guard XIX. Raven Guard- ? XX. Alpha Legion- Effrit / Lernaean Who did I miss? Are these correct? Thanks for the help, guys and gals. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235917-elite-of-the-elite/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
TennisBall Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 A tetrarch was a term used in the later Roman Empire to refer to the joint rule of a four man council from tetra (four) and archon (ruler), as opposed to mon (one) arch. Given the name I'd guess that the Tetrarch was the Ultramarines version of the Mournival. Perhaps it survives (or is) the Ultramarines chapter masters of the Fleet, Watch, Recruits and Arsenal. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235917-elite-of-the-elite/#findComment-2841881 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyaenidae Posted August 8, 2011 Author Share Posted August 8, 2011 @Tennis: I understand the historical meaning, but a number of times in the short story, he is refered to as a 'Legionary Champion', 'Honour Guard to Roboute Guilliman himself', and 'a member of Ultramar's warrior elite'. Makes me want to assume that the title Tetrarch in the 30k setting is the title of the Ultramarine Elite. Other than this short story though, I haven't heard of the Ultra's elite names, so I'm unsure. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235917-elite-of-the-elite/#findComment-2841899 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olis Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 I'd be inclined to have Tetrachs put in tentatively until they are either confirmed or denied, personally. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235917-elite-of-the-elite/#findComment-2841950 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyaenidae Posted August 8, 2011 Author Share Posted August 8, 2011 Agreed, and 1st post edited to that effect. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235917-elite-of-the-elite/#findComment-2841951 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TennisBall Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 @Tennis: I understand the historical meaning, but a number of times in the short story, he is refered to as a 'Legionary Champion', 'Honour Guard to Roboute Guilliman himself', and 'a member of Ultramar's warrior elite'. Makes me want to assume that the title Tetrarch in the 30k setting is the title of the Ultramarine Elite. Other than this short story though, I haven't heard of the Ultra's elite names, so I'm unsure. That implies that the Ultramarine elite bodyguard unit consists of four marines. Either it's not the name of the elite or the writer stuffed up the name. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235917-elite-of-the-elite/#findComment-2841998 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olis Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 Well, it's the closest we've got so far. Besides, an elite bodyguard of four (from a legion some 250,000 odd strong) sounds badass. :mellow: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235917-elite-of-the-elite/#findComment-2842008 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyaenidae Posted August 9, 2011 Author Share Posted August 9, 2011 @Tennis:Both of which are entirely possible. The Deathshroud consisted of only a few Death Guard, and the name Tetrarch does sound cool at least, lol. @Pulse: I was waiting for someone to say something along those lines, lol. Seriously though, I know the Ravenwing existed pre-heresy, but did the Deathwing? Do you guys and gals think that they would fit the bill for the DA's? Technically, they are elite... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235917-elite-of-the-elite/#findComment-2842011 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coryphaus 101 Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 Wouldn't the Luna Wolves/Sons if Horus be the Mournival. After all they are 4 out of 80,000/100,000. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235917-elite-of-the-elite/#findComment-2842181 Share on other sites More sharing options...
malika666 Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 If I'm not mistaken the Angron of the World Eaters had the Devourers as his bodyguard unit. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235917-elite-of-the-elite/#findComment-2842192 Share on other sites More sharing options...
A D-B Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 If I'm not mistaken the Angron of the World Eaters had the Devourers as his bodyguard unit. True blue. Weird, I was emailing about that less than 5 minutes ago. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235917-elite-of-the-elite/#findComment-2842241 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TennisBall Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 Wouldn't the Luna Wolves/Sons if Horus be the Mournival. After all they are 4 out of 80,000/100,000. The Mournival are Horus' inner circle, his advisors, that's why I thought the Tetrarch sounded like an Ultramarines version (I haven't read the story). I don't recall Horus having a bodyguard as such, the Justaerins were Abaddon's unit I thought. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235917-elite-of-the-elite/#findComment-2842284 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hfran Morkai Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 I believe the Space Wolves/Russ' guard were the Varangi. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235917-elite-of-the-elite/#findComment-2842288 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astral Saviors Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 Just had a look on Lexicanum and found this guy under Known Members of the Ultramarines. Nicodemus, Tauro - Legion Champion, Tetrarch and Honour Guard to the Primarch (Heresy-era). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235917-elite-of-the-elite/#findComment-2842291 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TennisBall Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 Just had a look on Lexicanum and found this guy under Known Members of the Ultramarines. Nicodemus, Tauro - Legion Champion, Tetrarch and Honour Guard to the Primarch (Heresy-era). That makes it sound like a title that he had separate to being in the honour guard, much like the Second company captain of the Ultramarines also holds the position title "Master of the Watch". Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235917-elite-of-the-elite/#findComment-2842314 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyaenidae Posted August 9, 2011 Author Share Posted August 9, 2011 @coryphaus101: Pretty much what Tennisball said; I've always seen the Mournival as a circle of advisors, a system of 'checks and balances' to Horus's big decisions. Granted, each of them kick ass on the field of battle, but they each led their own companies and rarely took to the field together. @Malika666 and A D-B: Interesting, I've never heard of the Devourers before. Is there a source for that, out of curiousity? For now, I suppose I'll take the word of a BL author and pencil them in for the World Eaters, heh heh. @Mikal Wolfheart: Source? Again, never heard of that, and I'd like to look it up myself. @Astral Saviors and Tennisball: First off, the Lexi has been known to be wrong at times, and in this case, the title was never mentioned in that context in The Iron Within. Second, Sigismund of the Imperial Fists has been known to be called Templar Sigismund pre-heresy, even though there are many, many more Imperial Fist Templars, and he actually carries the rank of captain. Third, Nicodemus was specifically mentioned as being a part of Roboute's Honour Guard, making him...well, an Honour Guard. Being the Master of the Fleet while defending your Primarch against an ork warlord in close quarters comabt would be a touch difficult, making me lean more towards Tetrarch being the name of the Ultra's personal elite. Forth, he is not mentioned as being a captain, or having any rank for that matter. Usually a 'Master of the (blank)' is a captain at least. I'm not saying that you're wrong, I just feel that there is more evidence towards Tetrarch being a Honour Guard title, not a title of a Master of Dur-dur-dur. So, Ravenwing for the Pre-Heresy Dark Angels? Yay or Nay? (Edited first post for World Eaters) EDIT: @Tennisball: Concerning the Justerian, I'm compiling the Bodyguards and the Elite formations names, since some of the Primarchs used the elite formations for their bodyguards (Fulgrim's Phoenix Guard), or only had bodyguards and no mention of a truly 'elite of the elite' formation (Mortarian's Deathshroud), or chose to not have bodyguards at all but elite formations existed within their Legion (Luna Wolves Justerian). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235917-elite-of-the-elite/#findComment-2842363 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reyner Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 Devourers are mentioned in the Collected Visions books. Ravenwing were created after the Heresy weren't they? To hunt the Fallen, my heresy knowledge of Dark Angels isn't very good though. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235917-elite-of-the-elite/#findComment-2842393 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyaenidae Posted August 9, 2011 Author Share Posted August 9, 2011 @Reyner: Ah, thanks for that. Must have missed that at some point. As for the Ravenwing, they were mentioned in Descent of Angels as a seperate elite cavalry section of The Order on black horses wearing matte-black armour prior to the Imperium arriving, but they never mentioned if the tradition transferred to the I Legion Pre-Heresy, or if it was reborn after the fall of Caliban. Maybe I'll drop the question in the DA forum, and see if one of those fellas have an answer... Edit: @Mikal Wolfheart: Found the Varangi reference in the Horus Heresy Collected Visions, listed as 'The Varangi- Russ's Veterans'. I'll list them as such here, until proven otherwise. Thanks for the tip! (First Post edited for the Wolves) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235917-elite-of-the-elite/#findComment-2842402 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Shady Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 Devourers are mentioned in the Collected Visions books. Ravenwing were created after the Heresy weren't they? To hunt the Fallen, my heresy knowledge of Dark Angels isn't very good though. Was it not mentioned in 'Call of the Lion' that they did have the Ravenwing? I might be wrong! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235917-elite-of-the-elite/#findComment-2842644 Share on other sites More sharing options...
skawolf Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 I would imagian that the raven wing was added to the dark angels after the lion took over. They were a part of "the order" on Caliban.So a no go on that one, in my opinion of the matter and not trusting coincidence like that. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235917-elite-of-the-elite/#findComment-2842660 Share on other sites More sharing options...
malika666 Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 The Imperial Fists' Primarch's bodyguards weren't Templars but Huscarls. Magnus had the Rehahti. Guilliman the Varangian Guard and the Lion had the Lion Guard. Note that these are bodyguard units and not the Legion elite units. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235917-elite-of-the-elite/#findComment-2842671 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walter Payton Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 @Tennis: I understand the historical meaning, but a number of times in the short story, he is refered to as a 'Legionary Champion', 'Honour Guard to Roboute Guilliman himself', and 'a member of Ultramar's warrior elite'. Makes me want to assume that the title Tetrarch in the 30k setting is the title of the Ultramarine Elite. Other than this short story though, I haven't heard of the Ultra's elite names, so I'm unsure. That implies that the Ultramarine elite bodyguard unit consists of four marines. Either it's not the name of the elite or the writer stuffed up the name. In Collected Visions there is a picture of several gold and blue badasses called "The Sentinels of Calth - Guilliman's Veterans." Of course, the canonicity of it is disputed. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235917-elite-of-the-elite/#findComment-2842675 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Heremes Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 according to promethean sun , Vulkan's body guard were known as the pyre guard. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235917-elite-of-the-elite/#findComment-2842692 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyaenidae Posted August 9, 2011 Author Share Posted August 9, 2011 @Jim Shady: Unfortunetly, no. They make mention of recon Astartes on jetbikes and Terminator armoured warriors, but no specific title. Then again, there were Marines using Multi-Lasers, which makes me want to question huge chunks of the story, lol. @Skawolf: Yes, but The Order was absorbed by the I Legion. I dropped the Ravenwing question over in the DA forum, and this seemed like the best answer I got so far... Whatever the outcome of the Ravenwing Knights being on Caliban, the Ravenwing Bike companies would have been founded at the same time as the Deathwing, due to their unique function; finding and capturing the Fallen. Not neccessarilly. When the order was folded into the first legion, it makes sense that those used to cavalry fighting would end up on bikes. Now you have a large number of marines formerly known as the Ravenwing and i imagine they would retain that name as a mark of honour. A few centuries down the line, when their 'unique function' is required, the name Ravenwing will have been held on as an informal title. With the Codex Astartes and the separation of the companies, it's not inplausable for the title to be taken and made official for the new, semi-secret, second company of the Dark Angels. Just a though. Al Seems reasonable enough. What do you guys think? @Malika666: Are you drawing these all from the Collected Visions book? I know that the Imperial Fists elite was the Templars (The Dark King / The Lightning Tower), and the Thousand Sons elite were the Scarab Occult (A Thousand Sons pg. 453), so I think a lot of that info is slowly being retconned. What pages are these on? @Alecto: Yeah, I saw that, but I'm kinda doubting the veracity of that one. Plus, that's a damn mouthful to say, and Tetrarch sounds much cooler, lol. @Heremes: Awesome, thanks! (First post edited for the Sallies) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235917-elite-of-the-elite/#findComment-2842782 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadDoc Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 The Imperial Fists' Primarch's bodyguards weren't Templars but Huscarls. Magnus had the Rehahti. Guilliman the Varangian Guard and the Lion had the Lion Guard. Do you have an actual source for that other than fan speculation? I ask because I don't recall reading the name of the Lion's bodyguard anywhere, and since I have all the Visions books, all the Heresy novels to date and every other DA related book published by GW/BL thus far I'm somewhat curious as to where you're getting that information. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235917-elite-of-the-elite/#findComment-2842952 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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