malika666 Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 I got them from a thread in the Great Crusade forums. Need to look it up again. The Lion's Guard was from the HHCG if I'm not mistaken. The Ultramarines' bodyguard came from a piece of concept art John Blanche did if I'm not mistaken. Rogal Dorn's Huscarls are mentioned in The Lightening Tower. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235917-elite-of-the-elite/page/2/#findComment-2843030 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadDoc Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 I got them from a thread in the Great Crusade forums. Need to look it up again. The Lion's Guard was from the HHCG if I'm not mistaken. The Ultramarines' bodyguard came from a piece of concept art John Blanche did if I'm not mistaken. Rogal Dorn's Huscarls are mentioned in The Lightening Tower. I think someone was playing fast and loose with the facts, thats one of the first things I checked, and I was able to find no such card, I've never seen any such card and it wasn't listed in any of the card lists (official or otherwise, including the complete and unabridged list in the back of Collected Visions). Its not mentioned in any of the accompanying colour text cards that came with the cards either. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235917-elite-of-the-elite/page/2/#findComment-2843050 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyaenidae Posted August 10, 2011 Author Share Posted August 10, 2011 Yeah, I'm gonna have to agree with MadDoc here. I can't find any mention of a Lion Guard in my Collected Visions book, nor Guillimans' (except for the Sentinels of Calth, which I firmly believe is questionable at best, and is now possibly retconned by the Tetrarch), and I'm looking at the prose version of the Lightning Tower / Dark King right now. Dorn's huscarl is Sigismund (Just as Curze's huscarl is Captain Shang, Magnus's huscarl is Amon, Horus's huscarl is Maloghurst, et cetera), but Sigismund is Captain of the Templars, who are the elite 1st Company of the Imperial Fists Legion. The Templars and the Phoenix Guard of the Emperor's Children even act as guards to Curze's 'jail cell', until he goes ballistic, kills them all and escapes. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235917-elite-of-the-elite/page/2/#findComment-2843217 Share on other sites More sharing options...
malika666 Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 The Huscarls are Dorn's actual retinue, they are led by Archamus as mentioned in The Lightening Tower. In The Dark King the Templars are mentioned as Dorn's unit. As for your definition of huscarl, whilst it makes sense, amongst the Legions this position is defined as an "Equerry". As for the Ultramarines unit, it is based on this pic, I can't find a larger version of it at the moment though... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235917-elite-of-the-elite/page/2/#findComment-2843551 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyaenidae Posted August 10, 2011 Author Share Posted August 10, 2011 I'm just not seeing it, man. Equerry and Huscarl are interchangible, and even Shang of the Night Lords and Amon of the Thousand Sons has been referred to using both titles, sometimes within the same book. The line you are referring to in The Lightning Tower is this, correct? Archamus had shadowed him from the planning chamber. Never so volatile as Sigismund, Archamus was the master of Dorn’s huscarl retinue. No offence, brother, but I believe you are taking it a bit out of context. Archamus "is master of Dorn's huscarl retinue", which has no name as of yet; Not "Archamus is master of Dorn's 'Huscarls'", his personal retinue. As the retinue of Dorn has not yet been named, and the Templars have been, here in The Dark King: Curze pounced towards the armoured Templar, one of Dorn’s best and bravest. Veteran or not, he died as any other man did – in blood and agony. Underlined the key words I feel are important to note. Really, it comes down to this...the Templars have been named, and noted as Dorn's best, thus elite. As the personal Bodyguard of Dorn has not yet been named, I'm going with the Templars for now, until new info pops up down the road. As for the Ultra pic, I feel that John Blanche is an excellent conceptual artist, and had a great hand in creating the dark and gothic visuals of 40k (hell, I often refer to his works when I run into a artistic block with my mini's, lol), but I also feel that the Varangii concept has been retconned by the title Tetracrh, as shown in The Iron Within short story. Pretty much anything in the HH books trumps the Collected Visions. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235917-elite-of-the-elite/page/2/#findComment-2843623 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pulse Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 The Huscarls are Dorn's actual retinue, they are led by Archamus as mentioned in The Lightening Tower. In The Dark King the Templars are mentioned as Dorn's unit. As for your definition of huscarl, whilst it makes sense, amongst the Legions this position is defined as an "Equerry". As for the Ultramarines unit, it is based on this pic, I can't find a larger version of it at the moment though... I find it annoying that the Imperial Fists use "Huscarl" as Dorn's elite, as within history "Huscarl" is only a Scandanavian and English title - the Imperial Fists culturally are neither. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235917-elite-of-the-elite/page/2/#findComment-2843635 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TennisBall Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 The Huscarls are Dorn's actual retinue, they are led by Archamus as mentioned in The Lightening Tower. In The Dark King the Templars are mentioned as Dorn's unit. As for your definition of huscarl, whilst it makes sense, amongst the Legions this position is defined as an "Equerry". As for the Ultramarines unit, it is based on this pic, I can't find a larger version of it at the moment though... I find it annoying that the Imperial Fists use "Huscarl" as Dorn's elite, as within history "Huscarl" is only a Scandanavian and English title - the Imperial Fists culturally are neither. Rogal Dorn and Sigismund are both germanic names and the Black Templars themselves have a germanic feel to them. Hardly a stretch for the germanic term huscarl to be used. What I find unusual is the seeming Roman styled world of Macragge having a name that sounds Scottish along with Konor, Guilliman's foster father and Roboute seems to be germanic. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235917-elite-of-the-elite/page/2/#findComment-2843773 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pulse Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 Rogal Dorn and Sigismund are both germanic names and the Black Templars themselves have a germanic feel to them. Hardly a stretch for the germanic term huscarl to be used. A name doesn't make a culture thats what i mean. You could make Gengis Khan President of the USA that doesn't make all the people in the USA mongolian. What I find unusual is the seeming Roman styled world of Macragge having a name that sounds Scottish along with Konor, Guilliman's foster father and Roboute seems to be germanic I think the rule of cool was used there personally, whoever it was probably couldn't think of a Roman sounding name good enough to suit the Ultramarine Legion. The same with Guilliman's foster father. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235917-elite-of-the-elite/page/2/#findComment-2843793 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyaenidae Posted August 10, 2011 Author Share Posted August 10, 2011 As it is, funny names or not, I'm gonna keep Templars with the Imperial Fists, but I'll annotate -(until proven otherwise)- on the first post for you naysayers, lol. Cool? Alright, so I found out that the Ravenwing order did exist in the I Legion after The Order was absorbed(Call of the Lion short story in Tales of Heresy), but no mention if they are actually the badass bikers of nowadays, or if they are just a name at this point, and the Ravenwing tradition was reborn after the fall of Caliban. Thoughts? Still nothing on the Iron Warriors, White Scars, and Raven Guard, and the Wolves of Fenris's entry (Varangi, ironically) is a touch shakey. Anybody know anything different? EDIT: Almost forgot...what's everybodys opinion on the Alpha Legion Effrit? Technically, they were Omegron's squad, think that counts? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235917-elite-of-the-elite/page/2/#findComment-2843806 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pulse Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 EDIT: Almost forgot...what's everybodys opinion on the Alpha Legion Effrit? Technically, they were Omegron's squad, think that counts? If there are no sources for any other names i suppose that will have to do for the time being, i am not sure they were even his guards, it was just a squad. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235917-elite-of-the-elite/page/2/#findComment-2843863 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyaenidae Posted August 11, 2011 Author Share Posted August 11, 2011 Like I stated earlier: I'm compiling the Bodyguards and the Elite formations names, since some of the Primarchs used the elite formations for their bodyguards (Fulgrim's Phoenix Guard), or only had bodyguards and no mention of a truly 'elite of the elite' formation (Mortarian's Deathshroud), or chose to not have bodyguards at all but elite formations existed within their Legion (Luna Wolves Justerian). And Omegon's squad is listed in the Dramatis Personae at the beginning of Legion: Omegon - Lord, Effrit Stealth Squad Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235917-elite-of-the-elite/page/2/#findComment-2843881 Share on other sites More sharing options...
malika666 Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 As it is, funny names or not, I'm gonna keep Templars with the Imperial Fists, but I'll annotate -(until proven otherwise)- on the first post for you naysayers, lol. Cool? I don't see why the Legions can't have multiple elite and bodyguard units, note that they numbered in the tens of thousands. Furthermore, as I have posted multiple times in this thread, there is proof that Dorn had another bodyguard units besides the Templars who are called the Huscarls who are mentioned in The Lightening Tower... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235917-elite-of-the-elite/page/2/#findComment-2844029 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadDoc Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 I don't see why the Legions can't have multiple elite and bodyguard units, note that they numbered in the tens of thousands. Furthermore, as I have posted multiple times in this thread, there is proof that Dorn had another bodyguard units besides the Templars who are called the Huscarls who are mentioned in The Lightening Tower... Couple of things, first, The Lightning Tower has 2 "e"s not 3, second, in the text from it that you keep referencing huscarl is uncapitalised, meaning its not a title, if it was it would be capitalised (cf. Templars, Atrementar, Gol Vorbak, Pheonix Guard all formations, all names/titles, all capitalised). The text you kept referencing merely suggests that Archamus is the chief of Dorn's multiple huscarls (a term GW uses interchangably with equerry and not the name of some formation/unit). Just to be clear, that means the Huscarls are not Dorn's retinue, in fact there is no formation/unit within Imperial Fist bearing that title whatsoever. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235917-elite-of-the-elite/page/2/#findComment-2844097 Share on other sites More sharing options...
malika666 Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 I guess you're right... Thank you for enlightening me. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235917-elite-of-the-elite/page/2/#findComment-2844107 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadDoc Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 Thank you for enlightening me. You're welcome, always happy to clear up areas of confusion. Besides, its an easy enough mistake to make. It was a point I kept waiting for somebody else to raise, but since nobody else seemed like the were going say anything I brought it up myself. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235917-elite-of-the-elite/page/2/#findComment-2844114 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyaenidae Posted August 11, 2011 Author Share Posted August 11, 2011 I actually brought it up back in post #30, but you worded it far better than I could. thank you, MadDoc. Anyhow, still have the Dark Angels, Iron Warriors, White Scars, and Raven Guard, and the Wolves of Fenris's entry (Varangi, ironically) is a bit off. Anybody know anything different? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235917-elite-of-the-elite/page/2/#findComment-2844129 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reyner Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 Bodyguards are mentioned in Raven's Flight. They are disbanded into other companies but Corax is so badass he says to one of his Captains "Do you think I actually need a bodyguard?" I thought Russ's bodyguard were the Wolf Brothers? All his clan from Fenris? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235917-elite-of-the-elite/page/2/#findComment-2844424 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyaenidae Posted August 11, 2011 Author Share Posted August 11, 2011 Bodyguards are mentioned in Raven's Flight. They are disbanded into other companies but Corax is so badass he says to one of his Captains "Do you think I actually need a bodyguard?" I thought Russ's bodyguard were the Wolf Brothers? All his clan from Fenris? Yeah, I kinda had a feeling the Corax wasn't going to have bodyguards. I'm impressed he had 'em at all, lol. Ah well, guess I'll have to be patient for Deliverance Lost and hope for more info... As for the Vlka Fenrikya, I was always under the assumption that even pre-heresy, the Wolf Guard were the badasses of the Legion; now, I'm getting all sorts of crazy info, lol. The oddest one is the Varangi, and the only pic of that showed up in the Collected Visions book. The only bodyguards that I ever remembered Russ having were his two Thunderwolf companions, and Russ is another guy I have a hard time seeing having a (human) bodyguard of any sort. Honestly, since I'm looking for Elite formations primarily, I feel that the Wolf Guard would be the best option right now. Opinions? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235917-elite-of-the-elite/page/2/#findComment-2844590 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Candleshoes Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 One may make as much of a case for another option for the Alpha Legion. The Lernaeans are more likely their "elite" over the Effrit, as they are the ones who bear the Legion's Tactical Dreadnought Armor, even though the Effrit are led by Omegon himself. In classical Greek myth, Lerna was the home and place of power of the fabled Hydra. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235917-elite-of-the-elite/page/2/#findComment-2844648 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyaenidae Posted August 11, 2011 Author Share Posted August 11, 2011 That's a good point. I chose the Effrit simply because they were the only ones attached directly to one of the Primarchs, but the Terminator elite makes sense. Since there are two primarchs, and two elite options, I'll add both to the first post as possibilities. (First post edited as such) I'm also gonna drop the Russ question in the Space wolf forum, see what The Rout think about it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235917-elite-of-the-elite/page/2/#findComment-2844746 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Candleshoes Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 Another name for the Scarab Occult is the Sekhmet. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235917-elite-of-the-elite/page/2/#findComment-2844890 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wulfkry Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 With the new books out and more information i thought id try to resurrect this thread, i also think its a pretty cool topic. The first list compiled by 1000heathens I. Dark Angels- ? II. -Oops- III. Emperor's Children- Phoenix Guard IV. Iron Warriors- ? V. White Scars-? VI. Space Wolves- Varangi (until proven otherwise) VII. Imperial Fists- Templars (until proven otherwise) VIII. Night Lords- Atramentar IX. Blood Angels- Sanguiniary Guard X. Iron Hands- Morlocks XI. -Dammit, dropped the test-tube again...- XII. World Eaters- Devourers XIII. Ultramarines- (originally head tetrarch but it seems they are more like acting steward of a planet than elite vets) XIV. Death Guard- Deathshroud XV. Thousand Sons- Scarab Occult XVI. Luna Wolves / Sons of Horus- Justerian XVII. Word Bearers- Gal Vorbek XVIII. Salamanders- Pyre Guard XIX. Raven Guard- ? XX. Alpha Legion- Effrit / Lernaean Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235917-elite-of-the-elite/page/2/#findComment-3133041 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ornestahl Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 Ok as a scandinavian and a huge Space Wolf fan i must say that the name Varangi for russes body guard sound awesome. The Varangian guard was the personal bodyguard of the bysantine emperors consisting of scaninavian norsemen. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235917-elite-of-the-elite/page/2/#findComment-3133278 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 The Imperial Fists' Primarch's bodyguards weren't Templars but Huscarls. Magnus had the Rehahti. Guilliman the Varangian Guard and the Lion had the Lion Guard. Note that these are bodyguard units and not the Legion elite units. The Templars are the 1st Company. They are not a 'bodyguard' unit, they deploy like everyone else. The Huscarls are Dorn's actual retinue, they are led by Archamus as mentioned in The Lightening Tower. In The Dark King the Templars are mentioned as Dorn's unit. As for your definition of huscarl, whilst it makes sense, amongst the Legions this position is defined as an "Equerry". As for the Ultramarines unit, it is based on this pic, I can't find a larger version of it at the moment though... I find it annoying that the Imperial Fists use "Huscarl" as Dorn's elite, as within history "Huscarl" is only a Scandanavian and English title - the Imperial Fists culturally are neither. Doesn't Ian Watson and the IA specifically mention the Imperial Fists following the Prussian Junker model? I agree, Im not a fan of the 'Huscarl' but the Imperial Fists definitely have Baltic Region roots. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235917-elite-of-the-elite/page/2/#findComment-3133304 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyaenidae Posted July 27, 2012 Author Share Posted July 27, 2012 Wow, what a blast from the past. I'd completley forgotten about this thread. @Wulfkry: The Tetrarch are planetary stewards, yes, but also warriors of renown and champions of Guilliman. As proven in The Iron Within, Tauro Nicodemus is not only a Tetrarch, but also is a skilled fighter, and doesn't just spend his time on his ward-world. He also travels to far off places, and kicks ass. The Tetrarchs are the elite of the elite, thus fit the purpose of the role I'm looking for. @M2C: Yeah, I know, dumb thread...but I was curious if I'm missing any of the known bodyguard / elite units of the Legions that have been mentioned thus far. As stated in the first post, I'm looking for elite formations as well. Are you seriously gonna try to tell me you don't think your Templars fit that role? Because that's bound to turn into the weirdest argument ever.... :teehee: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235917-elite-of-the-elite/page/2/#findComment-3133374 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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