Battle for the Abyss

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It´s not nearly as horrible as i remember. Skraal is a very cool character and the story is exiting -a page turner for me actually. The lack of previously established HH-fluff will hopefully feel justified after reading Know no fear (sort of how Fallen Angels saved DoA).... I guess you could say that the portrait of the Word Beares legion is lacking a little after seeing what A-D-B did with them in First Heretic....

 

If you, like me, hated it i recommend you to pick it up again!

[Olis]

Like I've said before, it's a book that made me root for a World Eater. It's an alright book. ;)

[Saa]

I have to say I've read it twice now. The first time I nearly cried blood to see my beloved Word Bearers portrayed as such incompetent stooges. The second time I found myself skim reading it except for the extracts about Skraal.

 

But in my opinion, one interesting minor character doesn't qualify it as a good read. For me it's easily the worst in the series.

 

Saa

[Lord Melvin]

I don't like how the Emperor's finest go down like guardsmen. I understand they were caught off guard against a well prepared and well armed force, but for a book about ultramarines it doesn't make sense why the Space Wolf and World Eater were my favorites. Maybe it was because the Ultramarines seemed stale. Or because the World Eater was a boss till the end, while the Ultramarines stood around complaining about their homeworld.

 

It's been a while since I read the book, but I don't remember liking the Ultramarine bits.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

If I ever start the series from the beginning, I'll probably be skipping this one on the second run-through. Seriously. It adds nothing to the overall metaplot and, like you say, the non-Ultramarines in an Ultramarine novel make for the best characters in the book. I'd also say that its first appearance of Chaos Marines as mustache-twirling, too-confident-to-lose cartoon villains.

[Jim Shady]

This was a strange read for me. I found most (not all) of the book to be a little tough to swallow and it dragged on abit. I do like Ben Counter's novels (The Soul Drinkers series was awesome and i'm slowly but surely getting through the GK series) but this was a tough nut to crack.

 

I agree with Skraal being a very good character and the SW was great, specially when bashing the young blood claw whelps. The majority of HH fans say that the DA books are the worst of the series but IMO this is.

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Well, yeah, it's still my least favourite, but reading it a second time it´s more like "this wasn´t supergood" than "this is a *#%"€% waste of paper.....

[TennisBall]

The thing I could never ignore was the Word Bearers at the beginning being claimed as expert ship fighters. Then later their own ship is boarded and they are defeated by a group who do not have the decades or even centuries of fighting together as they're a mixed group from different legions.

The only thing that came from it was that the legions had small groups scattered about the galaxy so that it is possible that other loyalists from the traitor legions survived elsewhere. I also found it hard to believe that the biggest warship ever built was constructed within the solar system and no one knew.

[Valkyrion]

First time I read it put me in mind of Scooby Doo.

The second time I read it I just read the dialogue to see if I'd missed anything important.

There won't be a third time I read it.

 

Far and away the worst BL I have ever read. It offers nothing as a stand alone story or as part of the meta story.

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Far and away the worst BL I have ever read.

 

It´s a bit silly at times, but thats a bit harsh. The Imperial Fists novel Sons of Dorn was worse...

[Saa]

Far and away the worst BL I have ever read.

 

It´s a bit silly at times, but thats a bit harsh. The Imperial Fists novel Sons of Dorn was worse...

 

Even the mention of that book makes me weep for the hundreds of trees that were brutally slain to create it. :P

[Valtonis]

the worst HH novel by miles.

it adds nothing to the fluff and a total waste of my time.

time that i can never get back

[Darkchild130]

*Shamelessly jumps on bandwagon*

 

On the whole it sucked but Skraal was awesome!

 

Darkchild

[Legatus]

Battle for the Abyss was the first Horus Heresy novel I was almost tempted to read (the second having been The First Heretic). That this does not touch on any of the established events and includes no Primarchs was a big plus for me, actually. Aside from that, the plot sounded really interesting. An ad-hoc group of Marines from different Legions notice something odd, a huge star-destroyer Word Bearer vessel. They don't yet know anything about what cataclysmic events are to come, so for them it is a mystery. Since they have no means to contact the Imperium or the rest of their Legions, they decide to follow that giant vessel on it's route to Ultramar. The Heresy is about to start, and the first moves are put in mothion, but the loyalists are not yet aware. That we know what all of this is about, but the Marines don't, creates a nice feeling of suspense, and being on a journey through the warp, without a chance to contact other help, gives it a wonderful adventurous setting. In theory, anyway, since I did not actually read it. What I have learned about the plot sounded nice, though. I assume it was ill received mainly because it did not contain any Primarchs and wasn't about any of the events we already knew about, and of course because it was largely about the Ultramarines.

[tiberium40k]

I had heard a lot of bad things about the book so at first I didn`t want to read it, but since I strive to have everything from BL that is HH related (damn you, audiobooks!), I ended up reading it back in April. My first impression was "this isn`t as bad as I thought it would be", and that`s it. It`s characters are forgetable (even Skraal) and its plot has a few holes you could drive a Land Raider through. It definately isn`t one of the better books in the HH series, and one could say it was the worst, even though I think other book(s) deserve that title more. I liked the few interesting snippets of info we get and how Counter handled the void battles, but that isn`t enough to make me want to re-read it anytime soon. The book did establish, like TennisBall said, that the legions had small groups scattered about the galaxy so it was made possible that other loyalists from the traitor legions survived, which may have helped bring Iron Within into being. All in all, I think it was somewhat of a wasted opportunity for the HH series, especially for the first HH appearance for the Ultramarines.

[Morollan]

I assume it was ill received mainly because it did not contain any Primarchs and wasn't about any of the events we already knew about, and of course because it was largely about the Ultramarines.

 

It was ill received because it's bad. I tend to agree that some of the less Primarch-heavy books tend to get bad press but in this case it was well deserved. This and the first Dark Angels book (which was fairly Primarchy) are the only HH books I've not re-read at least once and I have no intention of doing so.

[Ubermensch Commander]

Battle for the AByss, IMO, was not that bad.

Each of the marines represented the idea of their Legions. No twists, the Space Wolves barked, the T-Son muttered magic junk, the World Eaters snarled, and the Ultramarines mediated. Works for me in a book that does not focus on one Legion at a time.

As for the Word Bearers being mustache twirling villains who were over confident....yep sound about right. These are the zealots who spent their time praying rather than training, leading a surprise attack on their "hated rivals" with a new super weapon. That very FAITH that makes arrogant and vulnerable as much as it strengthens them. Complete faith in your foul gods and divine Primarch leader? Yeah. Mistakes will be made.

 

Oh and it did add to the Meta Plot by setting up some nuggets in Nemesis. Just WHO and HOW did all those supplies get diverted to making this superweapon? Intrigue at court. It may have some bearing on Courage and Honor but its not out yet. Cannot say.

 

What the book need was an EDITOR worth his salt. For example, early the book an Ultramarine is going through the training motions and we are given an internal though process. During this process though, he thinks of his ship (Fist of Macragge I believe it was) but we don't know that until the second or third time it is mentioned because we are just given PART of the ships name first (the Fist). Give the full name, tell us what it is, THEN use short hand names.

 

So I enjoyed it will enough myself. Best of the series. No. Worst? Nope, I give Prospero Burns or Legion that one, though I know some will disagree.

[Morollan]

So I enjoyed it will enough myself. Best of the series. No. Worst? Nope, I give Prospero Burns or Legion that one, though I know some will disagree.

 

Me for one :lol:

 

Legion is my favourite HH book other than the initial trilogy. Prospero Burns has only one fault - the title! Other than that though I think it's a cracking read but probably falls into the "not enough Primarchs and explosions" category that I've referred to before, meaning that many people don't like it.

 

Still, each to their own.

[Ubermensch Commander]

So I enjoyed it will enough myself. Best of the series. No. Worst? Nope, I give Prospero Burns or Legion that one, though I know some will disagree.

 

Me for one :)

 

Legion is my favourite HH book other than the initial trilogy. Prospero Burns has only one fault - the title! Other than that though I think it's a cracking read but probably falls into the "not enough Primarchs and explosions" category that I've referred to before, meaning that many people don't like it.

 

Still, each to their own.

 

 

Yep. That right there.

 

Mind you, I didn't like not because of "not enough Primarch" but rather Abnett's "The savagery is all an act...bark bark arrooo animal tendencies." It jarred. HARD. Plus, Russ "offering his brother surrender" by yelling into "that guys" face, the inconsistency in Daemon power, no one noticing said Daemon, How are Space Wolves even able to consider themselves the Big E's executioners with the Night Lords and World Eaters around and lots of Legions helped take out the missing ones (The First Heretic touches on this), Russ/Magnus rivalry and hate being downplayed in favor of "Nyahah! A Chaos Daemon did!", etc etc.

In essence, at its core, I just did not like how it messed with the fluff and I could not suspend my disbelief nor enjoy the characters presented.

Not trying to derail or diminish other peoples enjoyment of the book, just stating it was not because of "not enough Primarchs or explosions."

[Iron Father Ferrum]

I agree with everything you said about Prospero Burns. It is, in my mind, the worst BL fiction Abnett has ever produced; I tore through A Thousand Sons but needed to force myself to keep reading PB.

 

That being said, I was curious as to why you didn't like Legion. Its my favorite in the series, and not just because its all about my sneaky-sneaky Alpha Legionnaires. . .

[Sparhawk]

Biggest problem with Battle for the Abyss is that it didn't have characters it had plot devices. If the characters in that book were any more one dimensional they would run the risk of collapsing into a black hole. Keeping with general legion traits is one thing but Brynngar was a caricature as was Mhotep and Zadkiel should've been named Snidely Whiplash with all of his moustache twirling. The overall plot was bland and highly predictable which to me is the worst thing a piece of entertainment can be, it wasn't that it was bad (because bad stories can have their own amusement) it was so middling that if I didn't have to spend several hours on a plane every week I never would've made it through.

 

I'm somebody who actually really liked the first Dark Angels book and I frankly couldn't care less about Primarchs and explosions I like characters and this book failed to deliver even one actual character that was more than a personality type/plot device with a name tag.

[Jareddm]

Mind you, I didn't like not because of "not enough Primarch" but rather Abnett's "The savagery is all an act...bark bark arrooo animal tendencies." It jarred. HARD. Plus, Russ "offering his brother surrender" by yelling into "that guys" face, the inconsistency in Daemon power, no one noticing said Daemon, How are Space Wolves even able to consider themselves the Big E's executioners with the Night Lords and World Eaters around and lots of Legions helped take out the missing ones (The First Heretic touches on this), Russ/Magnus rivalry and hate being downplayed in favor of "Nyahah! A Chaos Daemon did!", etc etc.

In essence, at its core, I just did not like how it messed with the fluff and I could not suspend my disbelief nor enjoy the characters presented.

Not trying to derail or diminish other peoples enjoyment of the book, just stating it was not because of "not enough Primarchs or explosions."

 

I felt Prospero Burns is closer to the first Dark Angel novel, in that it was written more to simply describe a legion rather than advance the plot. The title is horrible and entirely misleading, but as a book that goes into the depth of pre-heresy Space Wolves, I feel it does a good job. I don't mind the chaos daemon messing with things from the sideline as anything involving Magnus and Tzeentch is going to have the phrase, "Just as planned!" written all over it. At least in response to the space wolves as executioners, there were two excellent pieces of dialogue ADB posted from the point of view of Khârn and Sevetar on why the World Eaters and the Night Lords respectively aren't considered the Emperor's executioners.

 

"Because we cannot be trusted. The Emperor needs a weapon that will never obey its own desires before the good of others. Most of all, he needs a weapon that will never bite the hand that feeds. We are not that weapon. We've all drawn blades purely for the sake of shedding blood, and we've all felt the exultation of winning a war that never even needed to happen. We are not the tame, reliable pets that the Emperor needs. The Wolves obey, when we might not. The Wolves can be trusted, when we couldn't. They have a discipline we lack, because their passions are not aflame with Butcher's Nails buzzing in the back of their skulls.

 

The Wolves will always come to heel when called. In that regard, it is a mystery why they name themselves wolves. They are tame, collared by the Emperor, obeying his every whim. But a wolf doesn't behave that way. Only a dog does."

 

-- Eighth Captain Khârn, when asked why the World Eaters aren't the Emperor's sanction force against other Legions.

 

 

"Because the Wolves kill cleanly, and we do not. They also kill quickly, and we have never done that, either. They fight, they win, and they stalk back to their ships with their tails held high. If they were ever ordered to destroy another Legion, they would do it by hurling warrior against warrior, seeking to grind their enemies down with the admirable delusions of the 'noble savage'. If we were ever ordered to assault another Legion, we would virus bomb their recruitment worlds; slaughter their serfs and slaves; poison their gene-seed repositories and spend the next dozen decades watching them die slow, humiliating deaths. Night after night, raid after raid, we'd overwhelm stragglers from their fleets and bleach their skulls to hang from our armour, until none remained. But that isn't the quick execution the Emperor needs, is it?

 

The Wolves go for the throat. We go for the eyes. Then the tongue. Then the hands. Then the feet. Then we skin the crippled remains, and offer it up as an example to any still bearing witness. The wolves were warriors before they became soldiers. We were murderers first, last, and always."

 

-- First Captain Sevatar, when asked why the Night Lords aren't the Emperor's sanction force against other Legions.

 

I'm not ashamed to admit I squee every time I read these.

[Ring-around-the-roses]

Gods i love Sevatar. The original badass :tu:

[Saa]

Is it wrong that I just pee'd my pants reading Sevatars quote?

[Walter Payton]

and of course because it was largely about the Ultramarines.

 

No, its just not very good. I reckon people will like the Calth book by Abnett, even if it does have Ultras, and people enjoyed Guilliman in The First Heretic.

 

I really didn't rate it. At first I enjoyed the Ultramarines et al kicking ass, but it quickly got stale. The characters were just archetypes given power armour. Cestus was the unwilling leader, Antiges the loyal sidekick, Mhotep the distrusted wizard, Bryngaar was a noble savage and Skraal was Sean Bean.

He even died, horribly, towards the end of the book.

The characters never broke those moulds. Skraal was cool, in a superficial way, for killing people, and he even had some inner conflict, but the rest? Nah.

 

It was hugely implausible. If it had been really good, I would actually have believed that the few marines could take down the Furious Abyss and everyone on it. As it was, I kept asking mysel if Kor Phaeron actually set up the Abyss mission as a means of social-Darwinism; put all the useless Word Bearers on one big ship and get them killed.