Hyaenidae Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 I've been trying to find an answer to a question that's been bugging me, and I'm hoping you fellas here on The Rock can help. I understand that the Ravenwing existed on Caliban prior to the Imperium arriving as a elite group of knights within The Order, riding black steeds and wearing matte-black armour. Did this tradition carry on through to the I Legion, or was it reborn after the Fall of Caliban solely to hunt the Fallen? What about the Deathwing, how did they come about? Just to hunt the Fallen as well? Thanks for your help. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235959-ravenwing-and-deathwing/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azrael Turnbull Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 Those are good questions, none of which have any current fluff that can answer positively. If I was to make an educated guess, I would presume that the Deathwing were only called such when the inner circle were first founded. As for the Ravenwing being on Caliban, it depends if the GW make it vanilla in the next codex. Personally, I did not like the works of that author. I much prefer Gav Thorpe. Whatever the outcome of the Ravenwing Knights being on Caliban, the Ravenwing Bike companies would have been founded at the same time as the Deathwing, due to their unique function; finding and capturing the Fallen. This answer, however, is not from a legitimate source, so make of it what you want. :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235959-ravenwing-and-deathwing/#findComment-2842521 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Blaire Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 I think the Ravenwing as the scouts they are were likely present in the Dark Angels Legion, though I have no direct proof of this at hand. They are not a formation solely for hunting the Fallen, they are the "elite" scouts of the Dark Angels, and function as such on any battlefield. This is well illustrated in the Purging of Kadillus, which had nothing to do with the Fallen, where Ravenwing units coordinated with the 10th Company scout elements to provide the best information about the enemy as they could to the commander. I see no reason why they probably would not have been doing this within the Dark Angels Legion, as a good Primarch would recognize that the already "scout-minded" Ravenwing "order" was a good place to draw scout-minded Marines and provided a good "elite" scouting formation. The Deathwing were likely named this later unless the 1st Chapter of the Dark Angels Legion or a large group of Terminator/elite troops similar to the Justaerin or other Terminator armored body guards/elites already existed. That doesn't seem that unlikely, as we've already seen other similar formations with names differing from their non-TDA armored brothers in other Legions, but whether they would have been the "Deathwing" is unknown, and their hidden agenda was obviously not in play yet. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235959-ravenwing-and-deathwing/#findComment-2842537 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alys Dwr Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 Whatever the outcome of the Ravenwing Knights being on Caliban, the Ravenwing Bike companies would have been founded at the same time as the Deathwing, due to their unique function; finding and capturing the Fallen. Not neccessarilly. When the order was folded into the first legion, it makes sense that those used to cavalry fighting would end up on bikes. Now you have a large number of marines formerly known as the Ravenwing and i imagine they would retain that name as a mark of honour. A few centuries down the line, when their 'unique function' is required, the name Ravenwing will have been held on as an informal title. With the Codex Astartes and the separation of the companies, it's not inplausable for the title to be taken and made official for the new, semi-secret, second company of the Dark Angels. Just a though. Al Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235959-ravenwing-and-deathwing/#findComment-2842744 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyaenidae Posted August 10, 2011 Author Share Posted August 10, 2011 Thanks for the responses, gents. Alys, that's kinda what I was thinking, but I figured I'd ask the experts first, lol. Sounds good, thanks again! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235959-ravenwing-and-deathwing/#findComment-2842893 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angel Descendant Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 The Ravenwing were Calibanite knights, presumably they became a scouting/recon unit when they were absorbed into the Dark Angels, no idea what happened during/post heresy though. As for the Deathwing, they were mentioned as siege specialists helping The Order attack the fortress of the Knights of Lupus before the unification of Caliban, after that I don't really know much. That's all drawn from Descent of Angels by the way Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235959-ravenwing-and-deathwing/#findComment-2843117 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Son of Rawl Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 There was also that short story from Gav Thorpe in a HH omnibus where we are introduced to a Calabanite Dark Angel from the Order of the Ravenwing. Nothing really expanded on the biking part but he does carry a teleport homer for Terminators to land at his position at a moments notice Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235959-ravenwing-and-deathwing/#findComment-2843202 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyaenidae Posted August 10, 2011 Author Share Posted August 10, 2011 There was also that short story from Gav Thorpe in a HH omnibus where we are introduced to a Calabanite Dark Angel from the Order of the Ravenwing. Nothing really expanded on the biking part but he does carry a teleport homer for Terminators to land at his position at a moments notice Interesting! I don't remember this. Which short story was this in? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235959-ravenwing-and-deathwing/#findComment-2843205 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Blaire Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 Belath, from the Call of the Lion short story in the Tales of Heresy anthology is a member of the Order of the Raven Wing. He's the one arguing with Astelan. IIRC, this is also who bears the green pauldron designating a Calibanite DA. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235959-ravenwing-and-deathwing/#findComment-2843479 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimdarkness Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 From what i've read the raven wing order was folded into the legion wholsale so no special unit for them. call of the lion. So that would lead me to believe the raven wing where regrouped into a scout force after the fall of caliban. the death wing i don't know about but the fact there termanitor equipped could mean they have being named in response to the vetrens failing to protect the lion on caliban. sort of taken a death oath. My 2 cents. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235959-ravenwing-and-deathwing/#findComment-2843884 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cloud Runner Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 Ravenwing were indeed part of the order of Caliban, famed for being swift mounted knights that were able to creep through the forests, almost unnoticed. This fits in with the scouting element of the current RW. There was a scoputing element sent out in Call of the Lion consisting of jetbikes and landspeeders, sent on as a recon group. As noted, Belath was of the order of the Ravenwing, which perhaps has him as standing as a higher ranking member of that group. Deathwing comes from a number of sources, all rather contradictory I'm afraid. In Descent of Angels (currently re-reading again) Zahariel is aware of numerous native creatures (not the beasts) that are within the forests and known to be deadly. One such creature is called a (you guessed it) deathwing - presumably some type of bird, but different to the Calibanite Eagle seen later presumably as an allegory for the Emperor's arrival. However, in the short story Deathwing, the first copmany recruited solely from a single world, from amongst the Plains People. To them, Deathwing was the name of the Emperors steed, which carried his sky warriros (marines) from their world into the Imperium. It is also regarded as mythical beast, as Two Jeads Talking hears the beat of Deathwings mightly pinions, moments before his psychic death attack on the 'stealer patriarch. This is also the story where the terminators change their armour from black to bone. So, for the legion, there has not yet been any definitive indication of the role of the Deathwing. However, with the terminator armour being retained as black in the Deathwing story, it is not unconceivable that the Deathwing also existed within the Order as an elite unit - perhaps the more senior knights, and the black armour was retained also as a mark of respect to the legions old ways. That's just my random thoughts on the matter though :( Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235959-ravenwing-and-deathwing/#findComment-2844228 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cactus Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 However, in the short story Deathwing, the first copmany recruited solely from a single world, from amongst the Plains People. To them, Deathwing was the name of the Emperors steed, which carried his sky warriros (marines) from their world into the Imperium. It is also regarded as mythical beast, as Two Jeads Talking hears the beat of Deathwings mightly pinions, moments before his psychic death attack on the 'stealer patriarch. I've always thought they were referring to the thunderhawk (which I think is also named Deathwing) that brought the marines to the planet's surface. A great beast that carries the Emperor's sky warriors. It's certainly plausible that there was a Deathwing formation in the legion. Terminator assault companies as described in the Horus Heresy books were the elite of the legions, equipped with the best weapons and armour. We could name that company or chapter Deathwing if we liked. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235959-ravenwing-and-deathwing/#findComment-2845064 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cloud Runner Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 I believe that Deathwing the vessel (which I think has to be a stormbird as it carries 30 terminators!) was so named for that reason. The plains people actually had two different 'totem' icons for deathwing - the winged, broken sword for the Terminator company and a winged skull for the emperors steed. It's in the old Space Hulk expansion rulebook, a copy (not mine) you can see here http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h189/MKo...Deathwing04.jpg And yes, that IS the story where I got my screen name from :) I for one truly look forwrad to what the BL do with the DW ion the heresy setting - could be good to see them going in special-ops style! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235959-ravenwing-and-deathwing/#findComment-2845250 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Immolator Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 As far as common knowledge goes the sort story deathwing was what made terminators bone white and named the first company. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235959-ravenwing-and-deathwing/#findComment-2851698 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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