malika666 Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 Hey there! I'm looking for some interesting info on the Death Guard regarding their activities/organisation/beliefs/etc after Horus' defeat. All I've been able to find is that they moved to the Eye of Terror and attack the Imperium, but is there more info out there? There are some contradictions, some claim the Death Guard are more or less united, whilst on the other hand Typhus could be viewed as a traitor within the Legion. Mortarion seemed to be doing his own thing on his new daemon world but at the same time he is battling Grey Knights and getting his ass kicked by one of them. So any help here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
major higgins Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 The legion is quite fragmented... Thypus is a traitor of the legion itself and is following is personal aims, or what Nurgle ordered to him. Usually the legion's plague marine are spread over the eye of terror or on the new Primarch's world and sometimes the leave it to claim new world for father Nurgle. They arrive where war is arose... spread contagion and death, corrupt the world over any reliability and then leave... They're still following the Mortarion rules about fight at close distance, suppress the enemy with FP and contagion (now) avoid the Long range weapon, usually fight for a Lord, a Sorcerer or a great demon prince in war band of variable dimension from few marines to a number of warrior like a SM chapter... They fight often alongside traitors guard, nurgle's demons or other chaos lord, in small number as allies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_son_of_Dorn Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 How do you think plauge marines see the world? if i was a bloated puss bag I wouldnt be too happy, do you think their vision may become blured to all other seeiming ugly and horrific and themselfs remaining whole? And I could quite happily see them alongside word bearer forces creating zombie hell on planets and just generally buggering everyones immune systems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azekai Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 I think that plague marine psychology makes sense- they turned from an uncaring Imperium to serve Father Nurgle, a god that saves them from death, despair and disease. Now, not only have they become what they once feared most- they are empowered by it. Pestilence strengthens them even as it weakens and destroys their enemies. They see contagion as a gift to be celebrated . . . under such circumstances, who wouldn't want to spread the blessings of the Plague Lord? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malika666 Posted August 11, 2011 Author Share Posted August 11, 2011 However, they were never given a choice in the matter. Basically Typhon forced them into serving Nurgle by practically sacrificing them to the God of Decay by killing the Navigators whilst en route to Terra. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talon Darkshade Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 THe corruption was already there. The seed of it was sewn back when the Emperor killed Motarions adoptive father. Typhus merely gave it the gentle shove to seal the deal. I am sure even without Typhus help they still would have fell, seeing how well Horus and Mortarion were such good friends, and Nurgle was such a solid fit and present in his life since his crash landing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_son_of_Dorn Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 The emperor saved Mortarion though, he didnt condem him, whatever resentment Mortarion has was surely misplaced with his pride! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malika666 Posted August 11, 2011 Author Share Posted August 11, 2011 THe corruption was already there. The seed of it was sewn back when the Emperor killed Motarions adoptive father. Typhus merely gave it the gentle shove to seal the deal. I am sure even without Typhus help they still would have fell, seeing how well Horus and Mortarion were such good friends, and Nurgle was such a solid fit and present in his life since his crash landing. You are mixing two things up here. Rejecting the Emperor isn't automatically embracing Nurgle. The corruption in the form of resenting the Emperor might have already been there for Mortarion, but the Nurgle thing didn't come from him. That aspect came from Calas Typhon, the Legion's Fist Captain who apparently had the blood of the Overlords Mortarion originally fought whilst still on Barbarus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talon Darkshade Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 You are mixing two things up here. Rejecting the Emperor isn't automatically embracing Nurgle. The corruption in the form of resenting the Emperor might have already been there for Mortarion, but the Nurgle thing didn't come from him. That aspect came from Calas Typhon, the Legion's Fist Captain who apparently had the blood of the Overlords Mortarion originally fought whilst still on Barbarus. But isn't it a bit of writers convience that Mortarion exists on a plague toxin choked world where even he can't reach the highest peak to stop his tyrant father's rule over said rotting world and in his final hour of avenging his people he denied that moment by the Emperor of man kind. If that is not the godly machinations of the Plague Father I don't know what is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malika666 Posted August 12, 2011 Author Share Posted August 12, 2011 You are mixing two things up here. Rejecting the Emperor isn't automatically embracing Nurgle. The corruption in the form of resenting the Emperor might have already been there for Mortarion, but the Nurgle thing didn't come from him. That aspect came from Calas Typhon, the Legion's Fist Captain who apparently had the blood of the Overlords Mortarion originally fought whilst still on Barbarus. But isn't it a bit of writers convience that Mortarion exists on a plague toxin choked world where even he can't reach the highest peak to stop his tyrant father's rule over said rotting world and in his final hour of avenging his people he denied that moment by the Emperor of man kind. If that is not the godly machinations of the Plague Father I don't know what is. But we don't know if Nurgle is responsible. At the moment it's just that, a bit of a convenience caused by the writers themselves. Same that Fulgrim and his Legion were already obsessed by beauty and perfection before encountering Slaanesh, or Angron and the World Eaters were already bloodthirsty maniacs before turning to Khorne. It would have been more interesting to see Legions less obvious turn to the Chaos Gods, I know it's a bit more difficult to write about it, but it would be a lot more interesting to see! :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azekai Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 Getting off topic, IMO. The thread is about POST-heresy plague marine outlook and belief. Mortarion and how he felt regarding the Emperror is neither here nor there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malika666 Posted August 13, 2011 Author Share Posted August 13, 2011 Indeed IMO. In order to get a better grasp of how they are post-Heresy, we need to understand why Mortarion turned. The impression the fluff leaves us is that Mortarion turned from the Emperor but Typhon (later on Typhus) offered the Legion to Nurgle. Various Death Guard characters such as Necrosis (or whatever the name was of the sorcerer who fought on Vraks) resent Typhon for doing this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warmaster Phthisis Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 Mortarion turned from the Emperor because Night Haunter did. In the brotherhood of the Primarchs, Mortarion was largely shunned for his dour demeanor and lack of political acumen. Mortarion was, at heart, more of a philosopher than a warrior or demagogue and so he spoke rarely. He was a champion for the weak and believed that he should use his gifts to bring about a utopian society. Strangely, in his utiopian idealism, he found comraderie in Night Haunter. Despite the fact that Mortarion disagreed with his methods the two shared similar goals and were largely ignored by the other primarchs. Horus convinced Night Haunter to join with him by promising him that they would transform the Imperium into his view of a uropian society. Originally Mortarion refused to join with Horus, but he was turned by Night Haunter because Night Haunter was Mortarion's only friend and he convinced him that the Emperor was a brutal oppressor. Mortarion did not turn easily and initially tried to convince Night Haunter to stay loyal. Post-Heresy is a very interesting period in DG history. After fleeing Terra they traveled to the Eye of Terror. Their retreat was quite slow, however. The Death Guard was one of the most numerous legions and they took relatively few casualties post-transformation. Their retreat to the EoT was a strategic withdrawal rather than an all out rout like most other traitor legions. Along their path they razed hundreds of worlds which prevented an Imperial counter-attack for centuries. Once they arrived in the EoT, Mortarion was given the Plague Planet where he consolidated power and reformed his Legion. The Death Guard participated in the war that destroyed the Black Legion and defeated Abaddon. At this point, Typhus got bored and left the legion voluntarily (he had supporters in the legion). Goaded by Tzeentch, Magnus the Red then launched a full scale attack on the Death Guard. The war was long but the Death Guard emerged utterly victorious and shattered the Thousand Sons into thousands of warbands forever. As it is, the Death Guard remains the only intact and cohesive Traitor Legion. They may scatter themselves across the galaxy, but Mortarion remains firmly in command. What does Mortarion feel about this? I think he regrets giving his legion to Nurgle and damning them. Nurgle would only partly appeal to his ideaology and partly run counter to it. I think he resents Typhus with a passion. However, Nurgle has his benefits. But he has no love for the Imperium. When Night Haunter was assassinated, everything he said about the Emperor and the Imperium was proved true. I think Mortarion views himself as a flawed savior. He's biding his time and building his strength until the Imperium collapses under alien assault or under its own weight and corruption. Then he will sweep out of the EoT and 'save' humanity at the head of his legion and establish a utopian society with Nurgle as its god and himself as its emperor.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuskRaider Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 How much of that is canon and how much of it is personal opinion or interpretation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Ciaphas Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 I second Dusk Raider's query...can you substantiate with references? Regards, Master Ciaphas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khiros Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 What does Mortarion feel about this? I think he regrets giving his legion to Nurgle and damning them. Nurgle would only partly appeal to his ideaology and partly run counter to it. I think he resents Typhus with a passion. However, Nurgle has his benefits. But he has no love for the Imperium. When Night Haunter was assassinated, everything he said about the Emperor and the Imperium was proved true. I think Mortarion views himself as a flawed savior. He's biding his time and building his strength until the Imperium collapses under alien assault or under its own weight and corruption. Then he will sweep out of the EoT and 'save' humanity at the head of his legion and establish a utopian society with Nurgle as its god and himself as its emperor.. How much of that is canon and how much of it is personal opinion or interpretation? I think this is mostly speculation, guys. :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plague Dave Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 The Lexicanum, and 40k wiki both have some decent info on the Death Guard, and are decently sourced. Phthisis' big middle paragraph is all legit info. The one thing I would contend with is that the Death Guard is still entirely cohesive, with Mortarion in command. Our current codex is pretty clear on Typhus' leaving Mortarion's new planet, and I'd still consider Typhus' sect as Death Guard (they've never been named anything else). This is actually the fluff I center my army around--Typhus' crew flying around, causin' trouble, makin' zombies ... etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malika666 Posted August 18, 2011 Author Share Posted August 18, 2011 What sources though? I didn't know about their war with the Thousand Sons or the Black Legion for that matter. Sources? What about their strategic retreat into the Eye of Terror, also new. As for them being the only Legion still 'intact', what about the Iron Warriors, Word Bearers and currently also kind of the Night Lords? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IraSummers Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 As it is, the Death Guard remains the only intact and cohesive Traitor Legion. Except for the others that still fight as a Legion... Such as the Word Bearers. They are even more as a legion as one then the DG. They even have a high command structure as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Lord Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 In the Index Astartes it says "Unlike with some other primarchs, Horus did not need to resort to daemonic possession to win Mortarion's allegiance". I think it also suggests Mortarion was partly motivated by a "might makes right" philosophy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incinerator950 Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 This is why I ignore most of the information taken out of the Black Library. As for a command structure. I'm sure it's Nurgle>Greater Demons (=Nurgle?)+Mortrarion Then you have Typhon, and then you have several Plague Sorcerers who left the Death Guard. Most of them are in the Black Legion, or are being lent to whomever serves Nurgle. Honestly though, if Mortrarion decided to rally the Death Guard for a Blighted Crusade, I guarantee you well over half the remaining Legion would respond. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDarkApostle Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 Well, generally Daemon Princes are almost always > Greater Daemons. And the Daemon Primarchs are almost always in the top of Daemon Princes. The only outright stated Daemon Prince > Daemon Primarch anywhere is Doombreed > Angron. (In favor of Khorne at least. And for being powerful enough to assemble the World Eater warbands into something resembling a Legion even without being the Primarch, or even an astartes to begin with!) Taking a closer look at the actual Death Guard and not Nurgle or Mortarion themselves there are a few references to them in the media. For instance the Siege of Vraks books inform us of the following active large sub-factions of the Death Guard: Lords of Decay The Tainted The Apostles of Contagion I'm sure closer examination of the tomes would yield deeper information of preferred style of warfare but alas I do not have the time to do it right now. TDA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeroTheApothecary Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 I believe it's the other way around Greater Daemons > Daemon Princes. It is said in the fluff that even when a Champion ascends to Daemonhood he is still shunned by other Daemons, not being pure of blood and trueborn. (Along with a bunch of other strange terms) And that he is giving :cussty jobs in general and not held in high standing at all. Just my 2 cents. And to contribute to the actual topic with my limited understand any Death Guard not in the eye of terror are just spreading plague zombies and concocting deadly contagions and testing them out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Lord Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 I believe it's the other way around Greater Daemons > Daemon Princes. It is said in the fluff that even when a Champion ascends to Daemonhood he is still shunned by other Daemons, not being pure of blood and trueborn. (Along with a bunch of other strange terms) And that he is giving :cussty jobs in general and not held in high standing at all. Just my 2 cents. That was the case in the novel Eye of Terror- Greater Deamons with many worlds at their command- with their enforcers on those worlds being Daemon Princes. This was way back in December 1999. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timdp Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 The novel Cadian Blood gives an idea of the types of stuff that Typhus is up to as he roams the galaxy in Terminus Est. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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