matt01price Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 Brothers - We all know our long fangs do their job picking off armoured targets, we all know our Greys can handle most opponents and are the ones who actually get the job done and we know our Wolf Guard can lead our squads into battle... Many of us carry out our duty as wolf lords by allowing these units to do these tasks every game the question is why not use the blood claws as the blood crazed warriors seeking glory which we read about in the codex and other records? Can we not run them bare bones style (my wolf lord wouldn't be too keen on gifting a precious powerfist to a whelp) with a wolf guard to keep em in line? I know it's not the most competitive way to do things but it sees us with extra troop choices, the ability to tar pit enemy units, holding them up so the greys can pick their moment and allows us to embrace the character of our chapter which we seem to lose all to easily when GW show us rack upon rack of shiny missile launchers. E.g. Throw this squad into an army list? 9 Blood Claws + Rhino + Wolf Guard (Frost weapon) = 208pts Relatively cheap in comparison to 250pts for a fully kitted out Grey pack. I'm not suggesting this for tournament use just day to day running of your great company, playing as Russ intended, the whelps have got to get from blood claw to Grey some how. So the question is would you do it? Have you done it and seen the pups wiped from the board? Just a question folks why not (and i already know Greys do it all better for roughly the same price and all the optimisation stuff - i'm thinking fluff) Regards Matt Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235990-blood-claws/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
hendrik Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 but when you compare them with a likewise armed gry hunterpack you end up with exacty the same points. so for those same 208 pts you lose 1 attack on the charge, but here's the list of things you gain: -9 bolters, this gives you double the range you can hit things - +1WS, +1BS, suddently you'll end up recieving less attacks in return Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235990-blood-claws/#findComment-2842763 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blacksad Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 I often field blood claws with a wolf priest attached, or with a minimum sized squad with Lukas to take care of the really really nasty stuff, and it works. it just needs a wolf priest to be worth fielding, or Lukas's Last Laugh ability when confronted with something like Abadon Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235990-blood-claws/#findComment-2842764 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vash113 Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 Mathhammer and efficiency aside I use Blood Claws all the time. Why? For two reasons, one is the sheer size of the unit, there's just something unnerving for an opponent when 16 angry Space Wolves smash into them. The second reason is the sheer number of attacks they put out on the charge, add a couple flamers in there and the unit makes for a nice shock squad. Point for point Grey Hunters are always better, but they are also expected, a known quantity with no surprise factor against an even moderately experienced opponent. I have always found running a large squad or two of Blood Claws in Crusaders surprises my opponents and really throws a wrench into their plans. I'm also simply fond of filling up a Crusader with Power Armor for no other reason than that I can. If your dropping out of a pod, rolling up in a Rhino or camping on an objective Grey Hunters are better. But nothing quite beats a horde of Blood Claws running rampant through my opponents forces with no other objective in mind than causing havoc and earning glory in the name of Russ. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235990-blood-claws/#findComment-2842774 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karack Blackstone Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 Full unit: - WP (kit out as needed) - WGPL (PF, BP/C-(wpn)) - 8 BC's (PW) Pros: - Lots more attacks on the charge - Same attacks as GH's on the counter-charge Cons: - Enemies typically hit on 3+ on their dice to hit, normally - Missing the assault will truly hurt overall, losing 8 attacks in an assault is bad enough - Can't assault out of a Rhino unless you get lucky and end up in a great position for next turn pile out and assault. That's just off the top of my head as to why people favor GH's. Having said all that, if including at least one BC pack in your list seems like a great fluff idea go right ahead. If this game were more about fluff overall these days we'd be much better off overall. I think winning has gotten to everyone far beyond actually playing a great game, or putting an army in a display case now and then. What I find most interesting is that BC's in a LRC is a great unit as follows, although it really can be an issue if your FOC is quite full. - WP - WGPL (Fist, other wpn) - 14 BC's, PW - LRC (Kit as wanted) Yes, it's more expensive, however, it's also a bit more useful since it gets the BC's where they want to be and lets them assault in the turn you need them to, rather than having to wait for the chance to get out and do what they do best. Points wise, it's less than cheap; the problem is that a basic rhino really is not made the right way for BC's. I've gone to a tourney at the L.A. Battle bunker and had two units of BC's, one in a LRC and one in a Rhino. The LRC is a vastly better fit for the BC playstyle. The rhino pack was unable to do much as any movement meant no assault the turn they got out. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235990-blood-claws/#findComment-2842779 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolflord Patrick Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 Bringing a Blood Claw unit isn't a bad thing... In fact, one of my favorite Death Star units is a big unit of Blood Claws with a Wolf Priest attached in a Land Raider Crusader. It is actually somewhat fluffy, when you think that part of the Wolf Priest's role is to help the Blood Claws cope with the Canis Helix.... I use the Land Raider Crusader for a couple of reasons. First off, it has the transport capacity to hold a unit of 15 of them. Second, it is an Assault Vehilce so you can take advantage of the Berzerk Charge when you get out. I'm also somewhat of a fan of the Swift Claw bikes. While they sit in the shadow of the super-powered Thunderwolf Cav, they're not that bad. In fact, for 25 points each, they're some of the best bikes around. Granted, you still need to attach a Wolf Guard or Wolf Priest to them so you're not subject to the Headstrong rule, but they work.... The bonus attack bike for 5 points more is also awesome. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235990-blood-claws/#findComment-2842787 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chapter Master Ignis Domus Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 I personally love Swiftclaws. They're one of my favorite units to use in the codex, especially since they're so versatile. If you kit them out right, they can assault, take on hordes, smash tanks, or provide a roadblock. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235990-blood-claws/#findComment-2842797 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheWulfen92 Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 Im currently running a blood claws pack and a GH pack in 1000 points. I have 9 blood claws and my lord in a land raider and it works amazingly, the land raider means they always get the charge bonus and wipe out whole squads in a go. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235990-blood-claws/#findComment-2842837 Share on other sites More sharing options...
red_starrise Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 In every game above 1000 pts I run a pack of blood claws. In fact, at 2500 I run a 15 man pack of blood claws w/ dual flamers led by a wolf priest in terminator armor & I footslog them. Even my friends assault heavy tyranids tries to duck them. I feel it fits their fluff for them to run en masse headlong at enemies bolt pistols blazing away. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235990-blood-claws/#findComment-2842864 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wulfebane Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 Just noticed.. Why are Skyclaws the only "Claw" unit that can take Mark of the Wulfen? Also, for all of you that DO employ BCs in your armies, do you take them bare-bones or do you fit them with p-fists and specialty guns? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235990-blood-claws/#findComment-2842997 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blacksad Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 flamers, nothing more. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235990-blood-claws/#findComment-2842998 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dswanick Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 Just noticed.. Why are Skyclaws the only "Claw" unit that can take Mark of the Wulfen? Also, for all of you that DO employ BCs in your armies, do you take them bare-bones or do you fit them with p-fists and specialty guns? Because they're the "maverick", "out of control", "reckless", "screwball", hard-cases? It's one reason I prefer them over Blood Claws. I just wish they could be a unit size of 15 like BCs. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235990-blood-claws/#findComment-2843121 Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt01price Posted August 10, 2011 Author Share Posted August 10, 2011 I love the idea of the blood claw death star, really do and have thought about it many a time, problem is it racks up to about 600+ points in the end. It's a big amount of points and could buy a rune priest and a couple of GH packs... it's the old and painful argument back to haunt us.... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235990-blood-claws/#findComment-2843144 Share on other sites More sharing options...
skoll Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 my death star unit is 680 points....(not including the land raider they are in)I think in the name of fun its worth it to not focus on winning so much as having the time of your life with your company. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235990-blood-claws/#findComment-2843264 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donutzot Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 Everybody should take Skyclaws I cant name any player who has played against my skyclaws who isn't afraid of them. but run them with a wolf priest with a JP(If your able to find a crazy enough wolf to do that) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235990-blood-claws/#findComment-2843311 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dswanick Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 Everybody should take SkyclawsI cant name any player who has played against my skyclaws who isn't afraid of them. but run them with a wolf priest with a JP(If your able to find a crazy enough wolf to do that) Amen. Skyclaw Assault Pack (11#, 390 pts) 1 Wolf Priest in Power Armour, Melta Bombs, Wolf Tail Talisman, Jump Pack ,Saga of the Warrior Born 9 Skyclaw Assault Pack, Power Weapon 1 Skyclaw w/ Mark of the Wulfen, Meltagun Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235990-blood-claws/#findComment-2843386 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanyPrawny Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 No need to put on all the points costs. You'll call down the wrath of the gods. Does sound like a good unit and the only way I would have those zerkers in my army. Not a massive fan of normal blood claws at all though I know how good they can be. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235990-blood-claws/#findComment-2843399 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maleficum Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 Having said all that, if including at least one BC pack in your list seems like a great fluff idea go right ahead. If this game were more about fluff overall these days we'd be much better off overall. I think winning has gotten to everyone far beyond actually playing a great game, or putting an army in a display case now and then. This thread so made me want to play Space Wolfs! To bad there's to many Imperials (in my group)... but who knows, who knows. I'm always into Storytelling campaigns, or should I say Saga-telling - and the Space Marines always seem so good for that? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235990-blood-claws/#findComment-2843616 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karack Blackstone Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 Having said all that, if including at least one BC pack in your list seems like a great fluff idea go right ahead. If this game were more about fluff overall these days we'd be much better off overall. I think winning has gotten to everyone far beyond actually playing a great game, or putting an army in a display case now and then. This thread so made me want to play Space Wolfs! To bad there's to many Imperials (in my group)... but who knows, who knows. I'm always into Storytelling campaigns, or should I say Saga-telling - and the Space Marines always seem so good for that? I personally would have gone Sisters if it weren't for the fact that the Space Vikings seemed so much closer to my heart than the faith-filled and blessed ladies. I may still start a Sisters army, but then I need the money to do just that. As far as SW's and stories go, we're one of the few armies that actually get to spend points on sagas, or the history of a given leader. The only real issue is that sometimes it's not cost effective, others it is. My line was in there since there's the problem of always seeing the same old thing on the table, basically. If a fluffy list were more common to the individual in question, the meta-game would in my mind seem quite a bit more reasonable. GH's would not be the only troop choice in a SW list, and GK would not be almost nothing but terms all the time. Playing to win and playing for fluff are almost diametrically opposed these days, it seems. Storytelling is more just figure out the points involved, set up a series of games, and continue to adjust your list such that combat losses are reflected or at least considered as packs take said losses. That, or rotate in fresh units that are experienced, while the unit recovers that took losses. Lastly, never let what other people play decide for you what you should play. If you think you'd enjoy it, try it out at least once. Consider proxy if you don't mind it. Just meet the proxy rules per your store, and go from there. Space Wolves, also known as the Vlka Fenryka, are great fun if you like them. Just keep in mind that if you aren't sure, there's reading and there's playing. If you don't like what you read when/if one takes a look through the codex, don't force yourself to play them; instead, reasonably consider if the army would be fun for you, and under what list/conditions it would be fun. Then, one starts to get a better idea as to what it takes to find SW's fun overall, and a list will invariably form. This all assumes after a certain point that SW's are right for you, overall. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235990-blood-claws/#findComment-2843641 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nodd Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 I run claws all the time..they're a valuable asset when used correctly..I find people tend to underestimate them..run With Ragnar..Deadly unit. I'll be running 15 in ard boyz with a Wolf Priest..they will hold my objective..and possibly conga line for another ;) Like some other members have said..don't listen to others..Blood Claws can work..along with swift claws and sky claws. Take the plunge..you'll be pleasantly surprised. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235990-blood-claws/#findComment-2843725 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silverwolf Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 In my mech lists at 1750pt and greater I always run a BC "Death Star" unit. Scares the hell out of the enemy, and draws a crap-ton of fire that would otherwise be going after something really important. Basically, your paying 5-600pt for a "shield" for your army :). However as I'm running Pods at the moment, I've not been taking them, due to GHs being far more effective out of Pods. However I might look at taking a unit of them as Jump Troops at higher points. Currently my lists are pure counter-assault style, so a single assault focused unit would be good for tying up enemy ranged units. (Always used to run a full pack of Fenrisian wolves in my 13th Co. lists for the exact same reason. Hilarious watching an entire Khorne army implode in on itself as it rages at the Fenrisian Wolf pack that just turn-1 assaulted the centre of their lines :D) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235990-blood-claws/#findComment-2843847 Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt01price Posted August 11, 2011 Author Share Posted August 11, 2011 thank you to all for your replies :P i think this sky claw thing might be the way to go, not too expensive points wise, and fun. Plus the idea of blood claws with jump packs with a begrudging wolf priest is great :( Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235990-blood-claws/#findComment-2844229 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karack Blackstone Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 thank you to all for your replies :D i think this sky claw thing might be the way to go, not too expensive points wise, and fun. Plus the idea of blood claws with jump packs with a begrudging wolf priest is great ;) For these Skyclaws, what special close combat weapon are you considering giving them? Fist, or PW? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235990-blood-claws/#findComment-2844717 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skirax Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 I have Blood Claws in every single army list, and I use them exactly as they're detailed in the fluff. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235990-blood-claws/#findComment-2844759 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maleficum Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 Lastly, never let what other people play decide for you what you should play. If you think you'd enjoy it, try it out at least once. Consider proxy if you don't mind it. Just meet the proxy rules per your store, and go from there. Space Wolves, also known as the Vlka Fenryka, are great fun if you like them. Just keep in mind that if you aren't sure, there's reading and there's playing. If you don't like what you read when/if one takes a look through the codex, don't force yourself to play them; instead, reasonably consider if the army would be fun for you, and under what list/conditions it would be fun. Then, one starts to get a better idea as to what it takes to find SW's fun overall, and a list will invariably form. This all assumes after a certain point that SW's are right for you, overall. I'm done proxying. (Did it for my first army.) Storytelling games is were the matching forces has a background to the conflict and the next games follow "naturally"/"logically" on the one(s) before. Therefore imperials Vs imperials is bad. The stories are often contrived and lack versimilitude. I don't enjoy "training excercises". Another thing about the wolves is that I'd really like to make my Chapter if I'd play the marines. There's something about playing lost, forsaken or just a.w.o.l. companies, but I've never really got a hang of it. Thank you for your encouraging words, though. ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/235990-blood-claws/#findComment-2845023 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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