Blood Claws?

[Silverwolf]

Considering the way the Imperium works though it's not hard to come up with something better then "training exercises" for Imperium vs Imperium.

 

- Planet's Governor rebels, IG on the planet follow the Governor's lead, Marines/IG forces sent to quell the uprising.

- Planet's IG/Population deemed irreparably contaminated by Xenos/Chaos/Heretic and order exterminated by the Inquisition. Can't use exterminates due to planetary resources - forge world or similar - Inquisition doesn't wish to destroy resources but needs to remove population.

- Inquisition Forces attempt above exterminates, x-Space Marine Chapter disagrees and goes against the Inquisitorial ruling, protecting the population.

- IG/Marine forces begin to turn Chaos and rise against friendly IG/Marine forces...

 

The possibilities are there, and it's hardly setting an unheard of precedent by showing Imperial forces going against Imperial forces ;).

[Wulfebane]

"Too many chefs in the kitchen."

 

That's the current Imperial government. With the lead voice in a coma (the Emperor), the Inquisitorial council are all doing what they please how they please. Due to that, there's no small amount of misinformation provided to the Imperial military and hundreds of Astartes Chapters.. not including those fallen to Chaos (outright or secretly). Despite that, there's plenty of Chapters that mistrust the Inquisition (more prominently, the Space Wolves) and willingly defy their orders or actions if they're deemed questionable. Tack on temporary alliances with xenos races in lieu of common goals or enemies and anyone could fight anyone in the galaxy for a legit cause.

[Captain Idaho]

To support what you have said above, I can confirm from recent Ultramarines novels that even they, a Chapter more likely to cooperate with the dirty Inquisition, are fiercely independent of their meddling. In The Chapter's Due there is a moment when the Ultramarines officers are shocked and outraged at Inquisition spy satalites in Ultramar, with the subsequent battle plans of Calgar accepting no meddling from the Inquisition or other Imperial authorities - they help the Ultramarines and nothing more.

 

So "blue on blue" engagements are easy to justify! ;)

[Maleficum]

True dat.

 

However, one of the members of my group (remember I haven't played in years) play av very altruistic DYI-chapter. It's also how you see your army. Some would like to lead their heroic guardsmen against an overwhelming enemy of the human race (though I've gathered the IG aren't exactly inferiour anymore;)) - and not just emulate the TV News... :rolleyes:

 

 

Also, I remember my buddy using a lot of scouts for our last Medusa V game, and he said that the whole company was struggling with manpower. (He uses a system were he rolls a die for each casualty, guess '1's are deaths and 2-3 are major injuries (weeks in bakta-tanks?).

 

I'd hate to exterminate a Blood- or Dark Angel company for a minor struggle. :huh:

[Karack Blackstone]

I think it was from an older edition of the rules, however I do recall seeing a similar system in use to that dice rolling method. It was 1, 2 equals dead, 3+ they can be saved. The ratio of a one-third chance of dying comes from full-on enemies that the Adeptus Astartes fight, and is referenced from somewhere in the Ragnar series, I do not recall which specific book, sadly.

 

Otherwise, if you don't see SW's as your cup of tea, yet like them, consider that the two rules granted them might be purchasable, or do a counts as if you're willing to potentially weather a little heat from other players. Some don't like the idea of things not being what they are.

 

We're also getting off topic, I say BC's and Skyclaws as need be; let them weather the storm while the GH's take the fight to the enemy with cunning.

[Wysten]

Aye, I also remember that, in Fantersy Warhammer battle over a island at least, that winning or losing, or the degree of the victory also had influence on the roll. So if you lost by a masscure, then only a 6 could save your troops, major victory of 5 or 6, and a minor loss meaning a 50% chance of withdrawing sucessfully. Since of then the force would have to flee as well, harder to do when your in full scale retreat/the force has largely been routed and the oppoment is largely finishing off the wounded. Though thats probably either older or tutored for a resource based campian.

 

 

I don't like blood claws personally, I feel they are simply Grey Hunters that are simply not as good in anything they do, aside from on the charge. Skyclaws and Swiftclaws have more merit since they are more mobile.

[Karack Blackstone]

I don't like blood claws personally, I feel they are simply Grey Hunters that are simply not as good in anything they do, aside from on the charge. Skyclaws and Swiftclaws have more merit since they are more mobile.

 

As to this, I'd say that Blood Claws lack the overall experience necessary to handle more than just the assault. Still, if like earlier in the thread one protects the BC pack and delivers them safely and properly (LRC as wanted), then it becomes vastly easier to soften up a much more dangerous foe of large size or hopefully kill it. With solid support, such as LF's or Vindi's against a huge boyz unit to weaken their numbers, BC's on the charge are among the best units in game at assault.

 

Therein one finds the rub of this issue: Blood Claws are inexperienced in the ways of being a full-blooded Space Marine of the Space Wolves/Vlka Fenryka. This difference means that they are closer to the wolf within, leading them to unleashing their fury on the enemy. Rather than let this ferocity go to waste, the Vlka Fenryka take this primal rage and harness it for the good of Mankind's defense.

[red_starrise]

As to this, I'd say that Blood Claws lack the overall experience necessary to handle more than just the assault. Still, if like earlier in the thread one protects the BC pack and delivers them safely and properly (LRC as wanted), then it becomes vastly easier to soften up a much more dangerous foe of large size or hopefully kill it. With solid support, such as LF's or Vindi's against a huge boyz unit to weaken their numbers, BC's on the charge are among the best units in game at assault.

 

Therein one finds the rub of this issue: Blood Claws are inexperienced in the ways of being a full-blooded Space Marine of the Space Wolves/Vlka Fenryka. This difference means that they are closer to the wolf within, leading them to unleashing their fury on the enemy. Rather than let this ferocity go to waste, the Vlka Fenryka take this primal rage and harness it for the good of Mankind's defense.

 

Agreed, I always think of Blood Claws as closer to their tribal heritage, meaning the concept of standing back & shooting til the right time to strike doesn't quite register to them. They're still thinking in their old ways of get up close & personal & hack it apart.

[Wysten]

I don't like blood claws personally, I feel they are simply Grey Hunters that are simply not as good in anything they do, aside from on the charge. Skyclaws and Swiftclaws have more merit since they are more mobile.

 

As to this, I'd say that Blood Claws lack the overall experience necessary to handle more than just the assault. Still, if like earlier in the thread one protects the BC pack and delivers them safely and properly (LRC as wanted), then it becomes vastly easier to soften up a much more dangerous foe of large size or hopefully kill it. With solid support, such as LF's or Vindi's against a huge boyz unit to weaken their numbers, BC's on the charge are among the best units in game at assault.

 

Therein one finds the rub of this issue: Blood Claws are inexperienced in the ways of being a full-blooded Space Marine of the Space Wolves/Vlka Fenryka. This difference means that they are closer to the wolf within, leading them to unleashing their fury on the enemy. Rather than let this ferocity go to waste, the Vlka Fenryka take this primal rage and harness it for the good of Mankind's defense.

 

I guess, but then thats simply just me. I feel skyclaws capture the feel of the Blood Claw beautifully, showboating, extremely fast reckless mini tanks wizzing through the air to fight the greatest challange, seize the greatest mounment or high ground or steal that titan to further boost their egos and solidify themselves within the legends of their chapter, that while they don't understand their limits or greater tactics, have all the skills and instinicts of the hunter to go racing off against all the odds to gain further status. Same with swiftclaws, reckless talent that is put to good use by giving them the mobility to constantly get stuck into the battle, trading off the protection of that iron box on treads for mobility.

 

Blood claws give me the impression of lumbering Orcs in armour. You may want to unleash them in a building or some other senstive point, but like death company of Blood Angel's last edition, it's something that is abudnent enough in resource that you should be given reason to run it. As is, Blood Claws actually feel too tame unless I load them into a Land Raider. Though perhaps thats just me caring too much about the Greenhorns, when I should be lobbing a few of them into a Rhino, lining them up infront of whatevers out there and see who ends up standing.

 

 

Perhaps thats just me though, as many animals in the wild, including the T-Rex actually used their more agilie young to engage their pray with their greater speed, before they let the more experienced and powerful adult rip into the cornered pray.

[Karack Blackstone]

As to this, I'd say that Blood Claws lack the overall experience necessary to handle more than just the assault. Still, if like earlier in the thread one protects the BC pack and delivers them safely and properly (LRC as wanted), then it becomes vastly easier to soften up a much more dangerous foe of large size or hopefully kill it. With solid support, such as LF's or Vindi's against a huge boyz unit to weaken their numbers, BC's on the charge are among the best units in game at assault.

 

Therein one finds the rub of this issue: Blood Claws are inexperienced in the ways of being a full-blooded Space Marine of the Space Wolves/Vlka Fenryka. This difference means that they are closer to the wolf within, leading them to unleashing their fury on the enemy. Rather than let this ferocity go to waste, the Vlka Fenryka take this primal rage and harness it for the good of Mankind's defense.

 

Agreed, I always think of Blood Claws as closer to their tribal heritage, meaning the concept of standing back & shooting til the right time to strike doesn't quite register to them. They're still thinking in their old ways of get up close & personal & hack it apart.

 

I don't like blood claws personally, I feel they are simply Grey Hunters that are simply not as good in anything they do, aside from on the charge. Skyclaws and Swiftclaws have more merit since they are more mobile.

 

As to this, I'd say that Blood Claws lack the overall experience necessary to handle more than just the assault. Still, if like earlier in the thread one protects the BC pack and delivers them safely and properly (LRC as wanted), then it becomes vastly easier to soften up a much more dangerous foe of large size or hopefully kill it. With solid support, such as LF's or Vindi's against a huge boyz unit to weaken their numbers, BC's on the charge are among the best units in game at assault.

 

Therein one finds the rub of this issue: Blood Claws are inexperienced in the ways of being a full-blooded Space Marine of the Space Wolves/Vlka Fenryka. This difference means that they are closer to the wolf within, leading them to unleashing their fury on the enemy. Rather than let this ferocity go to waste, the Vlka Fenryka take this primal rage and harness it for the good of Mankind's defense.

 

I guess, but then thats simply just me. I feel skyclaws capture the feel of the Blood Claw beautifully, showboating, extremely fast reckless mini tanks wizzing through the air to fight the greatest challange, seize the greatest mounment or high ground or steal that titan to further boost their egos and solidify themselves within the legends of their chapter, that while they don't understand their limits or greater tactics, have all the skills and instinicts of the hunter to go racing off against all the odds to gain further status. Same with swiftclaws, reckless talent that is put to good use by giving them the mobility to constantly get stuck into the battle, trading off the protection of that iron box on treads for mobility.

 

Blood claws give me the impression of lumbering Orcs in armour. You may want to unleash them in a building or some other senstive point, but like death company of Blood Angel's last edition, it's something that is abudnent enough in resource that you should be given reason to run it. As is, Blood Claws actually feel too tame unless I load them into a Land Raider. Though perhaps thats just me caring too much about the Greenhorns, when I should be lobbing a few of them into a Rhino, lining them up infront of whatevers out there and see who ends up standing.

 

 

Perhaps thats just me though, as many animals in the wild, including the T-Rex actually used their more agilie young to engage their pray with their greater speed, before they let the more experienced and powerful adult rip into the cornered pray.

 

Oddly, due to the general awkwardness of the Blood Claws being savage, unruly, utter fighting machines on the assault, yet limited to normal human range weapon and ranged skills (3's), the problem is that without a LRC with say a guiding WP and a WGPL along with a Fist to give an all-rounders unit build, there's little BC's in a Rhino would accomplish, unless you're willing to just run 15 BC's + WP + WGPL w/ Fist/(wpn) on foot.

 

The single biggest, and nicest, feature of BC's is that with 14 BC's, PW, WGPL w/ Fist/BP, and a WP all running around in a LRC (I include EA) really makes for a rather nasty greeting for whatever one engages with that unit. Like everything, protecting one's most capable assault force in PA (3+) means some tradeoffs as there are weapons on the field that can prevent armor saves. Hitting Banshees, even when using frag grenades into cover, typically means some losses if not handled carefully.

 

Like every 40K element, the question of how to run an army/list tends to come back to one point: who is in charge of this group? That's the only real point of this: do you, the general, footslog, LRC, or don't use the general BC's? Or, rather, does one use the headstrong, unruly, :P BC's that like to ride the skies or race across the ground are out of the vehicle bays tearing things up both with weapons and their means of transportation?

 

The choice is yours, informed only by others' opinions, experiences, and general means of communication chosen. Use what you will; accept that even BC's can be countered in all their forms, Skyclaws and Swiftclaws included.

 

Edit: conjugation fail.

[skawolf]

I use a unit of blood claws in every game I play with my wolves. I just rush them forward while everything else gets into position. They are dangerous for sure, so the enemy can't afford to ignor them and they buy you time.

 

I also found Skyclaws to be the answer to my wulfen issue. I want to use my wulfen models, but don't have rules for them. I now run a unit of ten skyclaws that are represented by my wulfen models, just chalk the "jump" move to be their increased agillity from being wulfen.

[Lord_Jaschk]

When I played Space Wolves, I always used Bloos Claws packs. Not for holding my own objectives, but imagine a horde of 15 blood claws (including Lukas) in the company of a wolf priest, charging out of your precious Land Raider Crusader. Now that's a sight to behold. Completely smashed aside my friends khorne cronies, leaving him with his jaws dropping.

 

It is rather expensive, but it worked for me.

[Hfran Morkai]

The problem is Blood Claws aren't a bad unit in themselves, its the fact that Grey Hunters are far too awesome for what they cost.

 

This infuriates me no end as it means that the Claws are seen as a subpar choice when in fact they're fine. If there was one thing I could change with the Claws it would be the addition of an extra Special Close Combat Weapon in place of the additional Special Ranged Weapon.

 

When I finally get round to building my army it shall contain a unit of Blood Claws and a Grey Hunter pack as the basis, with another pack not too far in. Why? Because Blood Claws are useful and they're not stupidly underpriced. :D