struggling against BA 1000pts

[hendrik]

it's happened to me again, once more my regular opponent has beaten me with his bloodangel force. and i can't figure out what i'm doing wrong. am i really taking the wrong units, do the dice gods hate me or is my generalship just overal lacking?

anyway, i'm looking for some suggestions or tricks that i might want to try out.

here's what he always fields:

-librarian dreadnought, with the psychic power that makes him a jetbike and might of heroes

-librarian,(powers depending from game to game)

-10 man tactical squad, split up in combat squads

-5 terminators, 1CML

-5 assault marines with that meltapistol and meltabombs on the sgt

-deathcompany in a razorback, PF (librarian goes with them)

 

my list consisted of

a rune priest, tempest wrath, living lightning

5 grey hunters; PG, razorback TLLC

6 grey hunters; PG, PW, razorback;TLHB

dreadnought, PC,DDCW+HF, WTN

wolf guard unit

TDA,WC+combiplasma

TDA,WC+SB

TDA,WC+combimelta

TDA, PW+SB

TDA,PW,SB,CML

landspeeder,HF,MM

landspeeder, HF,MM

whirlwind

 

in general i keep both the grey hunter packs inside their razorback until the opponent gets close to then rapid fire them, meanwhile the runepriest joins the grey hunterpack consisting of 5 and casts tempest wrath, if his 2 librarians don't block him to do so.

since the table is only 35" deep and about 50" wide i tend to stay back to try and get as many shots on him as he comes closer, while sending my landspeeders forward to deal with his dreadnought. sometimes they succeed in bringing that one down, sometimes they fail.

i've changed the dreadnought and wolf guard for another grey hunterpack and a vindicator or long fangs a couple of times but it still didn't help me due to him placing the terrain in a way that drawing a line of sight longer then 24" gets hard. the long fangs usually end up in combat by turn 2 anyway due to him deploying as close as possible.

 

so now the question, am i really fielding such a bad list? or must it be bad generalship for my part that makes me lose every time?

any suggestions to tactics and/or changes to the list are welcome

[MalachiOfRuss]

Hmmm... well, this is just my opinion, but at only 1000 points I would go for quantity over the expensive stuff like Dreds and Terminators. Stick with the "boring but effective" Grey Hunter packs lead by Wolf Guard. If I knew I was facing BA, this is what I would bring:

1000 Pts - Space Wolves Roster

 

Total Roster Cost: 999

 

HQ: Rune Priest in Power Armour

. . 1 Rune Priest in Power Armour, Chooser of the Slain + Wolf Tail Talisman

. . . Living Lightning, Murderous Hurricane

 

Troops: Grey Hunters Pack

. . 8 Grey Hunters Pack, Wolf Standard + Plasma gun

. . . . 1 Rhino

 

Troops: Grey Hunters Pack

. . 8 Grey Hunters Pack, Wolf Standard + Plasma gun

. . . . 1 Rhino

 

Troops: Grey Hunters Pack

. . 8 Grey Hunters Pack, Wolf Standard + Plasma gun

. . . . 1 Rhino, 35 pts

 

Elite: Wolf Guard Pack

. . 1 Wolf Guard Pack

. . . . 1 Wolf Guard in Power Armour, Combi-Plasmagun x1 + Power Fist x1

. . . . 1 Wolf Guard in Power Armour, Combi-Plasmagun x1 + Power Fist x1

. . . . 1 Wolf Guard in Power Armour, Combi-Plasmagun x1 + Power Fist x1

 

Heavy Support: Long Fangs Pack

. . 4 Long Fangs Pack, Missile Launcher x4

. . . . 1 Squad Leader

 

Heavy Support: Long Fangs Pack

. . 4 Long Fangs Pack, Missile Launcher x4

. . . . 1 Squad Leader

 

With this list you've got a lot of "boots on the ground" with your infantry. Each squad is going to be pretty tough, even for BA assault troops with the Wolf Standard and the Wolf Guard with Power Fist. You know he's going to be aggressive so let him come to up. Set up in favorable terrain, preferably in a board corner to limit the lanes he can take against you. Your Rune Priest is key so keep in central and as protected as you can. Try to keep your RP right at 24" from his Libbies to get that 4+ negate pyschic powers thing. Hit is squads with Living Lightning while they are far away, then Murderous Hurricane when they get to 36". Hopefully, he'll fail some Dangerous Terrain tests or even miss an Assault due to Difficult Terrain (even Jump troops need to test when they Assault). Keep your hunters in their Rhinos as long as you can, firing the Plasma Guns out of the fire point. Hopefully he'll have to assault the transports to get you out. You're going for volume of shots here. As soon as your Long Fangs can see something, fire Frag Missiles until those launchers glow red hot and melt in their hands. If you manage to catch a PA squad in the open, switch to Krak Missiles and give him no save (Death Company won't even get Feel No Pain since it is double their toughness). Concentrate on a target with firepower and take it out. You want to cause him to make as many rolls as possible. Use your Grey Hunters to screen them from assault.

 

Once they get to within 12" you rapid fire all the Plasma you've got. There's a gun on the Grey Hunters and a combi-weapon on the Wolf Guard with each squad, so that's 4 shots in one round. Rapid fire everything then brace for the assault. When he does assault you, remember to declare that you're using your Wolf Banners. Rerolling those 1's really does help! Allocate wounds away from the Power Fist to try and keep it alive as long as you possibly can. Your squads should outnumber his, combined with the Grey Hunters' superior number of attacks means you should have decent odds of winning the day!

[hendrik]

swarming him might be a good idea, although i've tried a similar list before and his librarian dreadnought just went through my units like a knife through butter, especially one the runepriest was taken care of and i had nothing to block his might of heroes.

i think i'll try a similar list like the one you posted next time though

but please remove the individual pointcost, the mods won't like it :)

[MalachiOfRuss]

swarming him might be a good idea, although i've tried a similar list before and his librarian dreadnought just went through my units like a knife through butter, especially one the runepriest was taken care of and i had nothing to block his might of heroes.

i think i'll try a similar list like the one you posted next time though

but please remove the individual pointcost, the mods won't like it :)

Yeah, that would be a bad scene. That's where target priority comes in: focus Long Fang fire on that Dred first until it goes down. Maybe you even want to swap some of those Plasma Guns for Meltaguns or combi-Plasmas for combi-Meltas to help take down the Dred. If you do I guess I'd recommend the combi-Plasma for a combi-Melta since once the Dred is gone you'd rather have the higher volume of shots.

[thade]

Hmm. Not much to play with. :) Speaking from a BA perspective...

 

Ground that Razorback early and hard, so you can put an irresponsible amount of bullets into the Droolers (which you can kite around with your Speeders once they're on foot, thanks to Rage); I'm surprised you don't have the 3+ psychic shutdown on your Runepriest? Or do you?

 

...while we're on the topic, can the Librarian attach to the Death Company? I thought only Chaplains could do that? Maybe I'm making that up (I don't use DC).

 

In a pinch, don't forget that a Whirlwind is Ordnance and gets to roll 2d6 for armor pen and select the best one of those two dice (it's not 2d6 like a melta, it's two 1d6 and you pick the best). S5 isn't great, but might get you the glance you need to Stun or Root a Rhino or Razorback.

 

Consider taking a Lonewolf in TDA with a storm shield and whatever else you'd enjoy. 2+/3++ Eternal Warrior is borderline invincible. (I know; I've tried to kill such a jerk more than once.) Just walk him right up the field; he'll soak fire far better than a Land Raider and is honestly scarier. Go ahead and give him a chainfist. ;) Your opponent denies himself a kill point by killing the Loner; remind him of that. :)

 

I definitely concur with the "more bodies at 1k" sentiment. The more infantry you have, the more trouble he'll have taking you down.

 

He has no priest? Money. Let him charge you; counter-attack for the win. Rapid-fire him right up until he does so. ;)

 

Once the Death Company is on foot, focus your Land Speeders on lighting up his foot-slogging Terminators; unless that Dread is still walking. Then split their fire. ;) I know 2d6 armor pen is tempting, but it's not entirely necessary against his list, esp. at this point level. Exploit that 24" range (so his Dread can't charge you and tear you apart like paper). Also, AP1 will vaporize his 5++ save termies. Storm bolters are annoying; make them go away.

 

Plasma cannon Dread? Have you ever counts-as'd him as Bjorn the Felhanded? You might enjoy that. ;) Drop most of your termies tho and go for more Grey Hunters if you do.

[dswanick]

I would generally agree with MalachiofRuss' advice, although I would try and get a couple of Plasma Cannons in a Long Fang pack and give the WGPLs Wolf claws and Melta bombs rather than the Power fists.

[hendrik]

the biggest problem is him closing in on me fast. the board we usually play on is only about 35" deep, do that minus 12" deploymentzones and you've only got only about 12" of no-mans land he has to cover before he reaches my side . usually by turn 2 he's managed to get that dreadnought close to my lines and then starts whacking my units, unit by unit.

but as everyone said more bodies seems like the way to go

[Grizzly Adams]

the biggest problem is him closing in on me fast. the board we usually play on is only about 35" deep, do that minus 12" deploymentzones and you've only got only about 12" of no-mans land he has to cover before he reaches my side .

 

Well that is one of your problems, for sure. You are playing against a fast, assault oriented army on a short board. Moving to a standard 48" board will help, give you more time to shoot, as of right now you are really only gettin one turn of shootin to try and stop him, and thats not enough. Like the others have said, more bodies, long fangs, lots of GH's. Then get yourself on a 48" wide board. It'll make a big difference.

[MalachiOfRuss]

To compensate you could shorten your deployment zones - agree that you need to be 18" from board centre instead of 12". Talk it over with your opponent.

[thade]

Yeah, I concur. That short table is playing is like handing the BA player the game. :P You need room to move and time to fire. Shouldn't be able to assault you until - at best - turn two.

 

Meanwhile, I was wrong regarding ICs and Rage; the Librarian can in fact join that unit of Death Company. Whether he decides that the Librarian will follow them around while you kite them with your Speeders is another matter. <3

[hendrik]

i guess we'll need a bigger board first, and then i'll see what it goes like. thanks for all the tips though!i especially like the speeder luring death company away idea! does it also apply to them if they are in a transport?

 

i guess we'll need a bigger board first, and then i'll see what it goes like. thanks for all the tips though!i especially like the speeder luring death company away idea! does it also apply to them if they are in a transport?

[Grizzly Adams]

does it also apply to them if they are in a transport?

 

Rage does not affect the transports the raged units are inside, that is the only way to control them. Thats why I always run my DC in a stormraven, at least if it blows up the unit is at least halfway across the board and headed in the right direction before they start going stupid

[Coverfire]

Rune Priests with Living Lightning and Murderous Hurricane. Deployed with Grey Hunters in a Rhino and casting their powers out of the fire point.

 

my 1k list goes something like this.

 

 

Rune Priest #1 - Chooser of the Slain, Living Lightning, Murderous Hurricane

Rune Priest #2 - Saga of the Beastslayer, Living Lightning, Fury of the Wolf Spirits

 

Grey Hunters Pack #1 (8) - Meltagun, Mark of the Wulfen, Wolf Standard, Rhino

Grey Hunters Pack #2 (8) - Meltagun, Mark of the Wulfen, Wolf Standard, Rhino

 

Long Fangs Pack #1 (6) - x2 Lascannons, x3 Missile Launchers, Razorback

Long Fangs Pack #2 (6) - x2 Lascannons, x3 Missile Launchers, Razorback

[Silverwolf]

Question, having not seen the new BA 'dex (will read it tonight), are Death Company Troops or Elites? If Elites he's running an illegal list.

 

didn't help me due to him placing the terrain in a way that drawing a line of sight longer then 24" gets hard. the long fangs usually end up in combat by turn 2 anyway due to him deploying as close as possible.

 

Aside from my question, I'd say that's ^ one of your main problems. Use a fairer system of terrain deployment and take turns placing pieces of terrain. I never let an opponent simply set up a board in his favour.

 

The other factor being the table size. At 35" across I'd drop the deployment zone width to 6" to maintain close to the normal 24" spacing between deployment zones. Or, better yet, use table quarters instead.

 

And personally I'd never take a WG TDA unit at such low points. If we're building a list focused on killing an infantry focused 3+ save army, I'd go with something like;

 

 

+HQ+

 

Rune Priest (150pt)

Master of Runes, Living Lightning, Tempests Wrath

 

(Make his "jetbike" Dread, Assault Marines, and Deep Striking Termies count everything as Difficult & Dangerous as he comes at you, and attach him to your LFs so they've some extra protection).

 

 

+Troops+

 

6 Grey Hunters (210pt)

Plasma, MotW, Power Fist

Razorback (Las/Plas)

 

6 Grey Hunters (210pt)

Plasma, MotW, Power Fist

Razorback (Las/Plas)

 

8 Grey Hunters (210pt)

Plasma, MotW, Power Fist

 

Foot slogging pack near your Long Fangs, & 2 with the Vindi in another position. Make him either pick a target, or split his forces to come at both sections of your army.

 

Chances are he'll pick the larger section of your army. If he does you can choose to either let him come at you, and counter-charge, while pulling the Vindi clear of the fight for another shot on any of his troops that may manage to push through - OR - A trick I like to pull, pack up and redeploy. Infuriates the hell out of an assault focused list as now they have to either change targets, or chase, and either way they have to fight through even more shooting before getting the chance to assault you.

 

 

+Heavy Support+

 

6 Long Fangs (140pt)

5x Missile Launchers

 

Vindicator (125pt)

Siege Shield (I never take one without this)

 

 

My mate has just picked up the BA 'dex, and fallen in love with it, so I'll be facing off against the lists he (and I) come up with for them this weekend. Best of luck to both of us ^_^.

[Grizzly Adams]

Question, having not seen the new BA 'dex (will read it tonight), are Death Company Troops or Elites? If Elites he's running an illegal list.

 

nope they are troops, along with DC Dreads ^_^ DC never score though, can only contest

[Silverwolf]

Thanks for that info Grizzly ;)

[Grizzly Adams]

no prob! ;)

[MalachiOfRuss]

nope they are troops, along with DC Dreads :P DC never score though, can only contest

Yes, and a BA list can only have 1 squad unless they have Astorath the Grim.