DIY Chapter: Phoenix Knights

[TrashMan]

Hello everyone. I recently made a Space Marine Chapter, and I'm still working out some of the details.

I want to make a credible one, that doesn't stray from canon, so I was hoping for advice and critics from you people.

 

Link to chapter info:

http://warhammer40kfanon.wikia.com/index.p...042&cb=8796

 

FOR THE EMPRAH!

 

ORIGINS

 

There are almost no records or details about this chapter. Most scholars place their creation at the time of the 25'th or 26'th founding, as it's roughly then that the first recorded mentions of their name start apeparing. While officially labeled as descendants of the Imperial Fists, differences in the gene-seed suggest otherwise. As no other founding chapter matches their specific mutations, several theories as to their origins exist. Some theorize they are a product of an secret experiment by the Adeptus Mechanicus (or more specifically a more active group that arose among them), that has been added to the founding, and while lack of proper records is suspicious, skeptics argue against this.

 

Phoenix Knights marines with the current gene seed demonstrated a wide set of mutations. These include missing Bethcers Gland, and diminished sense of smell and taste (while still higher than that of a normal human, they are far below other Astartes), and the Murcanoids substance provides reduced protection from cold. In adition, the rejection rate of the implants is higher than normal. While these rejections have not been fatal, the process has to be repeated with a new implant, meaning the Chaper spends more gene-seed to fill it's ranks.

 

But for all these negative changes there are positive ones too. Marines implanted with this gene-seed seem to live longer, and have regenerative abilitties well beyond their bretheren. They also appear to posses the self-immolation ability of the Flame Falcons, which they can fully control. This led to another theory - that they in fact are the Flame Falcons, hidden from the galaxy and slowly rebuilt, the integrated back into the Imperium under another name. Opponents to this theory point out that this would imply another powerful faction of the imperium giving refuge, and that it's unlikely either the Mechanicus or the Inquisition would follow that path. Another distinguishing trait is that most of a marines previously learned skills are left in tact (usually from the last 2-3 years of life prior to becoming a marine), and in some rare cases, even some memories from that period.

 

HOMEWORLD

 

Sub-sector Vaynar, located at the outer "bend" of the Centaurus Arm, in the Boardicea Sector. Avalon system is the home of the chapter and the central system in the region, which is relatively peaceful compared to most of the galaxy. The far-flung location of this sub-sector is a double-edged sword. While imperial administration is light and people are far more "free" here, the sector is also more lightly defended and more removed from aid, should things go amiss.

 

 

COMBAT DOCTRINE

 

The Phoenix Knights diverge from the Codex Astartes and are generally very liberal with it's interpretation. This is partially due to the circumstances and composition of their forces. The Chapter has been almost destroyed three times, and due to heavy fighting the number of true Astartes has never exceeded over 600. For this reason, the chapter employ false astartest or Guard Exemplar to bolster their strength.

The PK value flexibility and planing above all else and excell in heavy assault and guerilla warfare.

On defense they build smaller, spartan monastaries that are well defended for their size.

Due to large number of capable personel and good ties with the AM, they posses a large array of marine equipement.

 

BELIEFS

 

The PK believe in the power of humanity and take every opportunity to advance humanities interests. They mingle with the local populace and appear less pious, spending less time in prayer and rituals. The rituals they do have are very generic and provide no hint of their primarch.

 

 

HISTORY

 

Roughly 483.M40 - the chapter suffers a terrible defeat (exact cause unknown, suspected Necron involvment). Less than 200 battle-brothers survive. Alsmot hte entire command structure is gone too. The Chapter master, chaplain and most captains are lost. In the same year, Arturian takes command over the Chapter.

 

484-500.M40 - Chapter takes command over the Vaynar system, killing the corrupt planetary governor. Without anyone to oppose him, Arturian institues massive changes within the chapter, re-shaping it's beliefs, practices and organization.

 

500-600.M40 - The entire system undergoes a similar reconstruction, with Arturian instuting changes that revitalize the entire sub-sector. An entire army of tech-priests and servitors is created to spearhead the massive construction projects going on everywhere. Arturian builds ties with the forge world of Van Secundus, the AM, Inquisition and Administratorium.

 

624.M40 - After a large ork raid and loss of a strike cruiser with many battle-brothers, Arturian introduces False Astarted (Guard Exampler) into the structure of the chapter.

 

653 - 700. M40 - Vengance Crusade. The Chapter strikes into the ork-held territory and cleanses several planets of orks. First deployment of Land Raider Reaper and the ork virus.

 

724. M40 - an ancienct, unknown class of battleship found in space. After a clensing action it is towed back to Mars and handed over to the AM.

 

734.M40 - Vixis Campaign. Tyranid Splinter fleet attacks the Vaynar system. It is stopped on Vixis by the combined forces of The Phoenix Knights, Eldar of Ilyaden, the Imperial Guard and a few elements of other chapters that responded to the destress call. A hidden underground complex found on the moon, pre-dating the Horus Heresy. Massive library and some relics found within. Relics and STC data used to further improve relations to AM and convince them to hand over the ancient battleship, "Sword of hte Stars" over to the chapter.

Chapter begins to experiment more, STC data forged.

Edited September 26, 2011 by TrashMan

[Luna Drake]

Pretty good TrashMan. :)

Only problem I forsee is the mixing of geneseed :) as it was created by the emperor originally and I think some would consider it heresy to mix the geneseed so my advice is choose a chapter and use that geneseed.

[TrashMan]

Oh, I believe I have that covered with the character of Magus Antiquis. Or do I? Have to see more opinions and reactions.

[Brother-Sergeant Bohemond]

Mixed Geneseed: NO. It isnt done, the only time it may have been done was the 13th Founding, who are missing, or the 21st 'Cursed' Founding when the AdMech played around with the seed and stuffed up, cause they are not the Emperor.

 

Recently the belief started spreading among the Chapter that the Emperor is an agent or right hand of a greater power, opposed to both Chaos and C'Tan. The battle-brothers keep this quiet, rarely discussing it even among themselves.

 

Why this? What caused this belief to spread? Does the Inquisition know? How dot ehy keep it secret?

 

 

the Lord of Terra decided, at the behest of the Adeptus Mechanicus, to create a new chapter.

 

This is called a Founding, the High Lords of Terra dont need the approval of the Mechanicus, also the AdMech never ask, its the seperation of powers principle.

 

DA geneseed: Ok, whats their relation witht eh Legion? (other DA chapters) Do they hunt the fallen? The DA like to have control over their successors due to the hunt for the fallen.

 

Other than that, its interesting so far, looking forward to seeing how you develop the chapter

[TrashMan]

The Cursed founding...could be that. Yet, the AM did tinker before..so why not again? History repeats itself.

 

So I guess I could put them under the 21'st founding...or a new founding.

 

 

 

****

Regarding the belief, that I didn't explain. It is tied with the ruins on Vixis. Many relics where found there but also writing, some dating from before the heresy, and some even from before the Great Crusade. Those writing were studied by some from the Chapter, many were taken aboard their battle barge for safe keeping. It is within those writings that the seed lies.

And no, the Inquisition doesn't know. They simply don't talk about it to anyone outside the Chapter

 

 

Still not sure if I should keep that bit at all, but I presonally kinda like it.

 

****

 

I know that a new chapter is created only with the Adeptus Terra permisssion. I never implied they needed persmission from AM, but I'm not aware that the AM cannot propose it or urge it. The AM certanly have their own goals and a lot of influence, and there's no shortage of need for more SM's in the Empire...

 

As for the gene-seed. I couldn't decide what to do with that. The Fire Hawkes seemed right for the chapter, but I love the Dark Angels..so I kinda went with this :P

[Ace Debonair]

Hello everyone. I recently made a Space Marine Chapter, and I'm still working out some of the details.

 

I want to make a credible one, that doesn't stray from canon, so I was hoping for advice and critics from you people.

 

What do you mean 'you people'? :D

Surely you meant 'esteemed and wise denizens of the Liber... and Ace'.

 

And then I'd respond with:

 

I'd firstly reccomend a read of the DIY guide stickied at the top of the forum. It's packed with useful info for the budding DIY Chapter maker. :P

Then, I'd search out the Octaguide if you've got any questions left unanswered. ^_^

[thade]

The Cursed founding...could be that. Yet, the AM did tinker before..so why not again? History repeats itself.

DAH!!! NOOOOOO!!!!

 

haha

 

I strongly urge you to not claim your chapter is from either the Cursed Founding or one of the Lost Chapters. For reasoning (and other advice), devour this thread as many of us have!

 

Short recommendations:

• Drop the mixed gene seed idea.
  
• Chalk up the creation of your Chapter to Lords of Terra decree. If you want some kind of connection to Ad Mech (to explain why you get so many fun toys to play with) have your Chapter find half of a Titan's foot and just turn it over to them. Bam. They love you.
  
• Why the Dark Angels? Figure out your connection with the Dark Angels. Either you work for them (literally) or they are hunting you (in which case, it's possible more Imperium forces may start to suspect you). They're literally the oldest chapter (still very Legion like, despite the "rules") so they have a lot of pull and leeway.
  
• If not the Dark Angels, there are other Chapters that you can succeed from with far fewer strings attached. :huh: Ultras, Sallies (if you don't mind black skin), and Imperial Fists for instance.
  

 

To be fair, it's your chapter and you can do whatever you like...but if what you like is to be able to fit yourself into the grand scheme of the fluff that the rest of us try to squeeze ourselves into, that's what I recommend. :D

 

Again, read the DIY guide (linked again for posterity). It can be massively helpful.

[TrashMan]

Yeah, I read the guide. I know you don't like the mixed gene-seed idea. I d0nt' consider that non-canon, altough I can understand your...disdain .. It does feel a bit Mary Sue-ish.

 

If I decide to stick with the mixed gene-seed, then it's better of if Iron Hands/Flame Falcons, rather than Dark Angel. Hm..Dark Angels kinda fit as they are more diplomatic...or not.

 

Or I can just make them based on the Flame Falcons gene-seed? Maybe even by a AM mistake (using the wrong gene-seed?) Or does that sound too stupid?

 

 

 

Either way, I do plan to keep the strong ties to AM trough Magus Antiquis, but maybe i nanother fashion...

[Lord Melvin]

Well, your other option is to pick a gene-seed, but keep your chapter's personality. Gene-seed does go a long way toward determining how a chapter's demeanor is determined, but that's not to say it's the same. Look at the Mortifactors. They use Ultramarines gene-seed, but you don't see Ultramarines running around with skulls in every crevice they can cram them into, or the Mortifactors quoting the Codex every two seconds.

 

Or perhaps the chapter was unfortunate enough to exacerbate a flaw in the gene-seed, as evident in the Space Wolves successor. Perhaps something on their homeworld caused a particular mutation to come to the fore, and while this doesn't manifest physically, it does affect them mentally. There are plenty of ways to say why your chapter doesn't act the same way it's parent chapter does.

[TrashMan]

You are right...

 

That still leaves me with the problem of picking a parent chapter.

Iron Hands...of Flame Falcons... Would the AM even use the Flame Falcon gene-seed in any way? And if I do stick with Flame Falcons (since they do seem the best match) I got another problem...their parent chapter is never listed anywhere.

[Brother-Sergeant Bohemond]

Easiest thing to do on the geneseed is run through the 9 loyalist geneseeds and examine them and pick a founding.

 

If earlier founding, all 9 are, generally, available.

Later the founding the less they use Raven Guard and Blood Angel

 

All the geneseeds have a flaw, bar the DA and Ultras. Find something you like and use that, geneseed is easy to change around (unless your a BA/DA/RG successor due to extenuating factors). Raven Guard and Blood Angel could explain why you have lower numbers though.

[TrashMan]

Nah, defiantely not Blood Angel.

 

I'm still clinging to the Flame Falcons and Iron Hands as best candidates. Unless someone has a better idea.

 

 

Also, I got a question - is the Chapter Master also the governor of a chapters home world? Can a chapter master become a governor, and if so, how?

[vipertaja]

Easiest thing to do on the geneseed is run through the 9 loyalist geneseeds and examine them and pick a founding.

 

If earlier founding, all 9 are, generally, available.

Later the founding the less they use Raven Guard and Blood Angel

 

All the geneseeds have a flaw, bar the DA and Ultras. Find something you like and use that, geneseed is easy to change around (unless your a BA/DA/RG successor due to extenuating factors). Raven Guard and Blood Angel could explain why you have lower numbers though.

 

Well, the space wolves don't really have successor chapters aside from a failed one. I thing the DIY guide mentions this as a point against making space wolf successor chapters.

[Brother-Sergeant Bohemond]

True, Yea, you cannot use SW as they dont ahve successors.

 

And yes, you can have the Chapter-Master as govoner, my Chapter-Master rules four systems, for example, and Marneus rules a few. There is a precedent for it.

[TrashMan]

But how to go around o implement it. How did he become the governor?

 

My initial Draft for Arturian was that we was a son of a planetary governor (hence his education and knack for diplomacy), but I changed it to a a son of a negotiator. Now I'm thinking of switching back.

 

It might actually solve the problem. If he's the son of the Governor, and the position is often inherited....then he could technicly inherit governance even as a space marine?

 

**

 

On another note, I have several variations for the chapter creation.

 

1) 21'st founding

 

2) 23-25'th founding, Flame Falcon gene seed used by mistake

 

3) -//- Flame Falcon gene-seed used on purpose

 

4) 23-25'th founding, attempt to fix the mutations in the gene-seed of Imperial Fists

 

5) ???

[Brother-Sergeant Bohemond]

For the govoner, could be similar to Hron Blackheart.

 

Too much politica, as opposed to Chaos corruption in the government, leads to assinations and machinations as various rivals seek to rise up in power, the Chpater-Master hears of this and fears that things may get out of hand and someone will fall to Chaos in order to rise in power, so takes over the government.

[thade]

If your chapter mixed gene-seeds to augment themselves or something, expect the powers-that-be to send Ordo Hereticus after you. That's not necessarily a bad thing, story-wise...if that's what you want.

 

The Lords of Terra flat out would not condone the mixing of gene seed. Even if they did, Ad Mech would give them a "LOL?" and not do it. I still don't see it happening in a sanctioned way.

 

Just because you picked a gene seed doesn't mean you have to be identical personality-wise to the chapter. Consider pushing your founding a bit earlier in the time stream. Nature VS Nurture. Perhaps the different experiences your chapter has endured have shaped them in a way their parent chapter didn't go. Or (again, might get you into trouble...but acceptable trouble) something has gone wrong with the gene seed and your chapter's changed a bit. So long as you're not growing horns and drinking the blood of innocents, you probably won't ring any bells. (Even then you may not ring any bells.)

[TrashMan]

Is there a precedent for a space marine inheriting the position?

 

 

Also, someone correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the AM deliberately and of their own will tamper with gene-seeds before(21's founding)?

 

I ask because I have a problem. Flame Falcons are a perfect template, but I have no info on them. Their primarch is never mentioned. And they are reported destroyed. so the chapter cannot descend from them directly. but only the AM have the gene-seed of the Flame Flacons.

 

So I have to think of something. I know that "experimental chapter" is usually bad and Mary Sue-ish, but I'm out of ideas.

[thade]

AM tampered and it was a huge mistake. Read: http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Cursed_21st_Founding

 

There's really no way they'd try that again, not unless the Emperor himself stood up and taught them how. :(

 

Your chapter doesn't need to be unique in its genesis in order to be unique or stand out. Let their deeds speak for themselves. :) Something that helped me was playing my first few (dozen) games with my newly painted marines and coming up with short stories as to why the games went they way they did. Why did that one tac marine with the missile launcher survive the entire game and break so many enemy vehicles, while the rest of his unit was slain so early? Why does my chapter field a Vanguard with so many storm shields? Why did they only start using a Land Raider now? (Because I bought it then, but you know, story.) Why were my first few battles/games all against the Thousand Sons and Ahriman? My scouts always die horribly...how do I even still have a chapter? Etc. Etc.

 

After answering many of these questions, I found there were further questions...the missile launcher guy did well so I painted a shield on his shoulder. Why? What does it mean? (My chapter then became "The Red Shields" and I painted those storm shields beat red.) Not only did my scouts die constantly, but most of my victories were pyrrhic...I'd lose so many guys. Well...my chapter doesn't have a lot of marines left. ;)

 

Anyway, I've found that putting unique little details into my marines as I paint them, or even adding to them or repainting them as they do well (or fall in battle) helps me construct a story as much as narrating the battles do. Virtually all of my commanders have names and I even refer to them with those names while they're on the table.

 

It's okay if the story doesn't come to you right away. It will. But you can't force it. <3

 

EDIT: typos

Edited August 12, 2011 by thade

[TrashMan]

I wish people would stop linking the same article 10 times. Yes, I read it. yes I know what happened. But the founding wasn't a complete disaster as some chapters turned out OK.

 

 

FYI - I really don't paint miniatures. They are too expensive and difficult to get where I live. I created the Chapter because I love WH40K universe and felt like making it.

 

 

The point is, the arthurian /phoenix theme mix is the whole core of the chapter. If I can't make that work, then I can just as well scrap the chapter completely. :mellow:

[thade]

Phoenix theme? As in fall (way down) and get back up again? Your chapter could ndure some cataclysmic event or massive, massive battle that renders incredible losses on them...and spring back from it. In fact, they could have endured two or even three of such events (if they were founded early enough) each time growing back up from only a few dozen marines (which, while very, very difficult, is not impossible and well within the bounds of the setting).

 

Here, you can use this if you don't hate it:

 

Perhaps they've been wiped out so many times that the oldest living members of the chapter are a three hundred year old Chapter Master (i.e. not that old) and a Dreadnought which you are not certain what the age of the marine inside is. He's definitely been around a few millenia, but he babbles at times incoherently so your techmarines and librarians can't get much in the way of accurate history out of him. However, he speaks very clearly in the midst of battle, even giving very sensible commands (which your marines follow without question, on those rare events). Perhaps during battle once or twice he's said things that perplex your chapter's commanders...things like, oh I dunno (this is where your work lies, perhaps) things that would only make sense if he was in fact many thousands of years old. Older than your chapter? How old is your chapter? Are your marines really sure they know how old the chapter is? Why won't anybody tell them? One of your Chaplains (or somebody else who values faith over fact) believes the Dread is one of the original veterans that left (your parent chapter) to train the rest of you and decided to stick around.

 

I think your safety word here is ambiguity. Like that DIY article says, it's okay to hint (even strongly) that your chapter is from the Cursed founding...but don't ever say it. :mellow: It could be an entire story arc. The kind that results in them having even stronger suspicions...but still not really being sure.

 

...How's that?

Edited August 13, 2011 by thade

[TrashMan]

Phoenix theme? As in fall (way down) and get back up again? Your chapter could ndure some cataclysmic event or massive, massive battle that renders incredible losses on them...and spring back from it. In fact, they could have endured two or even three of such events (if they were founded early enough) each time growing back up from only a few dozen marines (which, while very, very difficult, is not impossible and well within the bounds of the setting).

 

I already have that, altough I should write more about that. It's only mentioned briefly.

Basicly, the chapter at no point ever managed to reach more than 600 battle-brothers. Every time they were near to filling their ranks, another massive war engulfed them, and so far they have been reduced to 200 marines 3 times.

 

I' might even abanndon their re-naming and stick with the orginal name of Phoenix Knights

 

 

but I'm a bit perplexed here.

 

21'st founding...could be old.

I want Arturian to be the current Chapter Master and the one who defined the chapter the most.. Which works best with a very young chapter. (Arturian being the second or even the first Chapter Master). How old can a space marine even be? I know they can live really long, but given their line of work, they generally don't.

[Brother-Sergeant Bohemond]

dante is 2 thousand I believ, and thats really old for a SM.

Generally, Id asy go for 200 years+ for an average marine thats made it to a veteran status. A chapter-Master? 400-500? Maybe older if hes lucky.

[DarkCrusader]

dante is 2 thousand I believ, and thats really old for a SM.

Generally, Id asy go for 200 years+ for an average marine thats made it to a veteran status. A chapter-Master? 400-500? Maybe older if hes lucky.

 

Holy... :) That is OLD

[Ring-around-the-roses]

especially when you consider the Black Rage and Red Thirst. Dante is one lucky astartes.