Illicit Chaos Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 feel stupid asking but can you take more than one vindacare assassin? thanks Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236153-vindcare-assassins/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morollan Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 All the assassins are unique aren't they? So, no. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236153-vindcare-assassins/#findComment-2845137 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 Two. A GK vindicare, and (until the second WD is out) a WH Vindicare. After the new SoB dex is out, then you can only have 1. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236153-vindcare-assassins/#findComment-2845159 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Illicit Chaos Posted August 12, 2011 Author Share Posted August 12, 2011 ahh thank you hmmmmmm i am trying to form an all henchmen/assassin army would there be any other elite slots that would be considered OK that are not GK? just a question? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236153-vindcare-assassins/#findComment-2845222 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angelis Mortis Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 Two. A GK vindicare, and (until the second WD is out) a WH Vindicare. After the new SoB dex is out, then you can only have 1. Except for the fact that Grey Knights is not one of the armies listed as an ally, so no you can't. You get 1, and only 1. ahh thank you hmmmmmm i am trying to form an all henchmen/assassin army would there be any other elite slots that would be considered OK that are not GK? just a question? You can fill each Elite slot with an Assassin, just not the same temple. Each temple is 1 unique, so you can have 1 Vindicare, 1 Callidus, and 1 Cullexus for example. Just not 2 of one temple. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236153-vindcare-assassins/#findComment-2845248 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chengar Qordath Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 Except for the fact that Grey Knights is not one of the armies listed as an ally, so no you can't. You get 1, and only 1. Well, you could argue that Grey Knights count as a Space Marine variant army. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236153-vindcare-assassins/#findComment-2845253 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 Except for the fact that Grey Knights is not one of the armies listed as an ally, so no you can't. You get 1, and only 1. Well, you could argue that Grey Knights count as a Space Marine variant army. No, you cannot. <3 They are not Adeptus Astartes. They are Ordo Malleus. All wish-listing anyway; virtually every tournie nowadays is forbidding the usage of WH allies in all lists. And with the release of the points-values for the SoB WD codex impending, we're about to bid adieu to that ancient codex. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236153-vindcare-assassins/#findComment-2845366 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chengar Qordath Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 And in any case, the WH Vindicare is underwhelming. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236153-vindcare-assassins/#findComment-2845498 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Valerius Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 Except for the fact that Grey Knights is not one of the armies listed as an ally, so no you can't. You get 1, and only 1. Well, you could argue that Grey Knights count as a Space Marine variant army. All wish-listing anyway; virtually every tournie nowadays is forbidding the usage of WH allies in all lists. And with the release of the points-values for the SoB WD codex impending, we're about to bid adieu to that ancient codex. wat. Are you serious? That blows my mind... "Hey guys, let's just disallow any rules we don't like! And next, yeah, um, I don't like DE very much, so no DE allowed at our next tournament." If that's really going on, I just took a massive respect hit for these TOs who I have not even met. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236153-vindcare-assassins/#findComment-2845864 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted August 13, 2011 Share Posted August 13, 2011 There are a lot of massive tournaments that disallow Allies, like virtually any that use INAT. (Not that I support INAT, but the thing is everywhere these days.) Anyway, Allies were purely a marketing move and don't really mesh well in the whole balance department. It's only okay now because 1. it's only allowed in friendly games anyway, and 2. that codex is hella old and nothing in it is scary anymore. They will allow a Witch Hunter army. They just won't allow other codecies to take them as Allies. Because it's kind of unfair. ;) Dark Eldar can't take any arbitrary codex as Allies; it's not like Fantasy Battles Dogs of War. They're the Ecclesiarchy. They work for the Imperium, period. Anyway, as I said, the Witch Hunter's dex is extremely short-lived now. We are about to bid adieu forever to the old ally rules. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236153-vindcare-assassins/#findComment-2845907 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted August 13, 2011 Share Posted August 13, 2011 No, you cannot. <3 They are not Adeptus Astartes. They are Ordo Malleus. That's purely 'cake and eat it'. Either the Grey Knights are Ordo Malleus (Daemonhunters) and are fine to ally with. Or the Grey Knights are a Marine Varient (chapter 666) and are fine to ally with. :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236153-vindcare-assassins/#findComment-2846283 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angelis Mortis Posted August 13, 2011 Share Posted August 13, 2011 No, you cannot. <3 They are not Adeptus Astartes. They are Ordo Malleus. That's purely 'cake and eat it'. Either the Grey Knights are Ordo Malleus (Daemonhunters) and are fine to ally with. Or the Grey Knights are a Marine Varient (chapter 666) and are fine to ally with. :( Not listed as either so no-ahh-ahh. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236153-vindcare-assassins/#findComment-2846427 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidoneus Posted August 13, 2011 Share Posted August 13, 2011 GKs aren't listed as allies, but more importantly the WH Assassins spell out very clearly that you can only ever have one assassin (total) in a single army, no exceptions. Clearly, GKs let you take different types of assassins together, but even if you could ally-in WH, the rules for WH assassins still wouldn't let you get more than one. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236153-vindcare-assassins/#findComment-2846429 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chengar Qordath Posted August 13, 2011 Share Posted August 13, 2011 No, you cannot. <3 They are not Adeptus Astartes. They are Ordo Malleus. That's purely 'cake and eat it'. Either the Grey Knights are Ordo Malleus (Daemonhunters) and are fine to ally with. Or the Grey Knights are a Marine Varient (chapter 666) and are fine to ally with. ;) Not listed as either so no-ahh-ahh. Doesn't need to be specifically listed, since the entry for allying WH to Space Marines states it works with the listed examples and any other Loyalist Astertes Chapter. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236153-vindcare-assassins/#findComment-2846464 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted August 13, 2011 Share Posted August 13, 2011 No, you cannot. <3 They are not Adeptus Astartes. They are Ordo Malleus. That's purely 'cake and eat it'. Either the Grey Knights are Ordo Malleus (Daemonhunters) and are fine to ally with. Or the Grey Knights are a Marine Varient (chapter 666) and are fine to ally with. ;) Not listed as either so no-ahh-ahh. Doesn't need to be specifically listed, since the entry for allying WH to Space Marines states it works with the listed examples and any other Loyalist Astertes Chapter. Ordo Malleus is not Adeptus Astartes. Dem's da brakes. Ironically, the old Daemonhunters Codex did allow a GK force to be taken as allies to a Sisters of Battle (specifically SoB, not WH at large) force. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236153-vindcare-assassins/#findComment-2846590 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted August 13, 2011 Share Posted August 13, 2011 ...There's more to this, really. Beyond the fact that TOs left and right are outright banning the use of Allies and the looming codex update that will remove it from the game, the thing that gets me is this question: "Why do this?" The purpose here is to "break" a part of our codex: to get two models when the codex is geared to assure you only have one. Sure, the old codex is a "work around"...but what spirit is that workaround in? It's hacks. Shenanigans. It's not really in the spirit of the game. You can do it if your opponent would allow it, as is true for anything...but that sits on the premise that whatever you do is fair, in good spirits, and fun. As a workaround used to break a rule in a codex, it's neither in good spirits nor fun, at least for me. I wouldn't allow it. ;) It's cheeky, and I honestly hope people see that. /soap box Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236153-vindcare-assassins/#findComment-2846599 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted August 13, 2011 Share Posted August 13, 2011 The same could be for any army built using any of the allies rules. Like instead of playing an old DH army, using WH parent to get Karamazov and ally in all the GK units you were going to use anyway. Ordo Malleus is not Adeptus Astartes. And Grey Knights aren't the OM. They are a loyalist Space Marine chapter. Number 666. ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236153-vindcare-assassins/#findComment-2846603 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted August 13, 2011 Share Posted August 13, 2011 I mean...you're flat out wrong, man. ;) No way around it. GK work for the Inquisition. Built like Space Marines, yes. Same power structure? No. It's been that way for a very long time. EDIT: I feel like I sounded a bit rude here; I'm sorry for that. It wasn't my intention. Way the fluff roles, they're not Adeptus Astartes. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236153-vindcare-assassins/#findComment-2846612 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dswanick Posted August 14, 2011 Share Posted August 14, 2011 dswanick's simple solution #452 : Play a 2,000pt+ game and field at least 2 HQs and 4 Troops and call them 2 seperate detachments per the BRB, Pg.87. Then you can field 2X each assassin... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236153-vindcare-assassins/#findComment-2846677 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angelis Mortis Posted August 14, 2011 Share Posted August 14, 2011 dswanick's simple solution #452 : Play a 2,000pt+ game and field at least 2 HQs and 4 Troops and call them 2 seperate detachments per the BRB, Pg.87. Then you can field 2X each assassin... Still not allowed. Read page 49 of BRB. You can only field one unique per Army period. It can 500pts, it can 5 FOCS at 10k pts, irrelevant. One unique per Army. The only exception is Apocalypse rules. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236153-vindcare-assassins/#findComment-2846838 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted August 14, 2011 Share Posted August 14, 2011 I mean...you're flat out wrong, man. No way around it. GK work for the Inquisition. Built like Space Marines, yes. Same power structure? No. Thade, you're serious? The Grey Knights aren't a Space Marine chapter? :/ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236153-vindcare-assassins/#findComment-2846895 Share on other sites More sharing options...
bystrom Posted August 14, 2011 Share Posted August 14, 2011 To quote the grey knights codex The Grey Knights are the Emperor's final creation, an army of Space Marines [...] When the Chapter fights [...] They're not autonomous, true, but they're space marines. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236153-vindcare-assassins/#findComment-2846901 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrotherWasted Posted August 14, 2011 Share Posted August 14, 2011 I mean...you're flat out wrong, man. :) No way around it. GK work for the Inquisition. Built like Space Marines, yes. Same power structure? No. It's been that way for a very long time. EDIT: I feel like I sounded a bit rude here; I'm sorry for that. It wasn't my intention. Way the fluff roles, they're not Adeptus Astartes. Except, you're flat out wrong, man. They're BOTH Space Marine Chapter 666 of the Adeptus Astartes and they work for the Ordo Malleus. Still in either case, you can't take WH Vindicares in a GK army. You can't take them in any other variant marine army, since a "Space Marine" army is played using "Codex: Space Marines". Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236153-vindcare-assassins/#findComment-2846924 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dswanick Posted August 14, 2011 Share Posted August 14, 2011 dswanick's simple solution #452 : Play a 2,000pt+ game and field at least 2 HQs and 4 Troops and call them 2 seperate detachments per the BRB, Pg.87. Then you can field 2X each assassin... Still not allowed. Read page 49 of BRB. You can only field one unique per Army period. It can 500pts, it can 5 FOCS at 10k pts, irrelevant. One unique per Army. The only exception is Apocalypse rules. Last line of the Multiple detachment games section : Each detachment will be a seperate army, using its own force organiztion chart. So, completely allowed - if the players agree to play a multi-detachment game. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236153-vindcare-assassins/#findComment-2846980 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted August 14, 2011 Share Posted August 14, 2011 Still in either case, you can't take WH Vindicares in a GK army. You can't take them in any other variant marine army, since a "Space Marine" army is played using "Codex: Space Marines". So you couldn't ever ally WH to the BT, DA, SW or BA? I'm sure they count as a Space Marine variant, even if they have their own codex. :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236153-vindcare-assassins/#findComment-2847075 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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