Mixed gene-seed

[Ring-around-the-roses]

My chapter HATES the inquisition. Its a matter of pride and honour. And survival. I may have to expand on the Inquisition part, but i'm waiting for feedback as the go ahead on what needs to get done.

 

Off topic, do you think i should post in it, lest it slip in the outer darkness? And so people could critique it?

[DarkCrusader]

Are you talking about your IA? BeCause id like to help out if you are

[Ring-around-the-roses]

Am totally talking about my IA. Would love help, as it is missing..something. Dunno what, but something.

 

Anyway, this is getting dangerously off topic, and back to the original topic. What was it again? :pirate:

[DarkCrusader]

I was piling my ecentric ideas on the unsuspecting civilians of B+C..

[Ring-around-the-roses]

To the IA, threadomancy incoming! (i suspect/hope)

 

Let the topic continue, free of this heretical talk of other, darker chapters. Let this topic come back to the light!

[DarkCrusader]

Ok,well for those that dont know why i havent writen an IA yet,its cus instead of writing a rough IA here on B+C and then flesh owt ideas thereon,i wrote my IA in a old book i found lying around and am fleshing out each detail til i have a wel thought out IA that i can publish later..i think its easier than doing the 'go bak and readjust' method..so it saves time..so i hav to flesh out all my ideas by friday(when i aktualy write the damn IA-procrastinator)thanks agen guys for all this help! ;)

[DarkCrusader]

Hey.ok,i know there are admech factions that arent very omnisiah orientated,but is it posible for and admech to not be an omnisiah believer at all?cus ive been trolling and saw that even admechs in 40k universe hav aknowledged the fact that they do not need the omnisiah for the armoury of the imperium..

[Ring-around-the-roses]

I suppose you could have a very young magos, whose are kinda their spiritual/tactical leaders, stuck and cut off from his superiors. Seeking validation for his advancement, he turns to the only person higher than him a reclusiarch/high confessor/high spiritual leader. Eventually, through VERY careful ministrations, he is turned farther and farther towards the spiritual side of the Omnissiah/Emperor coin, and not having access to the higher up knowledge that the other, older magos have, he chooses to believe that the Omnissiah and Emperor are one, and forcibly changes his logic circuits and/or his servants/expiditions to match his beliefs. The spiritual leader meanwhile, benefits greatly, and chooses to protect this magos, convincing him to hide his beliefs/hide straight out/run away with them to protect his "Mechanicus Imperator Supremis" truth.

 

This is all conjecture, but i think its not a half bad idea. You could technically have a Techmarine hack into him if you want, forcing him to accept the Chapter Aprovved Version of the Imperial Cult. All of this is non-canon, and entirely conjecture and theory. I shall not be qouted!

[TrashMan]

My chapter HATES the inquisition. Its a matter of pride and honour. And survival. I may have to expand on the Inquisition part, but i'm waiting for feedback as the go ahead on what needs to get done.

 

 

Meh...playing the "persecuted" card. I personally don't like it, but it depends on the execution.

[TrashMan]

Hey.ok,i know there are admech factions that arent very omnisiah orientated,but is it posible for and admech to not be an omnisiah believer at all?cus ive been trolling and saw that even admechs in 40k universe hav aknowledged the fact that they do not need the omnisiah for the armoury of the imperium..

 

 

Would you even need AM magos?

Tech-Marines can be just as skilled as them(or so I read).

[thade]

...? Some confusion here. Let me see if I can clear it up. <3

 

Techmarines are trained by Adeptus Mechanus. They're sent to Mars (after their chapter elects them), they go there and get trained, then come back all tech-savy and versed in the language(s) of the Machine Spirit (dormant, usually not-entirely-sane AIs in each and every piece of equipment). They're a bit alienated by the Chapter, typically, but incredibly valuable. They keep everything in working in order, which is no small task when everybody forgot what the heck "science" was roughly 40,000 years ago.

 

The Omnissiah is the Emperor. Is it possible for a techmarine to not believe in or support the Omnissiah? Yes...they're called Obliterators. :)

 

Is it possible for Ad Mech to not be a believer in the Emperor? Not really, no. They know he exists and have been helping to keep tabs on the Golden Throne since his installation there. They are sadly aware that they can't keep the thing running forever, and they have no idea how to fix it. Tough luck, no?

[DarkCrusader]

I should have phrased it better,i meant can there be an admech cult that know they dont need the omnisiah to create and distribute technology.oh,thanks for the response btw. ;)

[Ring-around-the-roses]

I thought the Omnissiah was an idea, not a actual being. Like worshipping the Emperor as a farm-god when your on a agri-world. And i'm pretty sure the AdMech, and everyone else have...conflicting views on the Omnissiah-Emperor deal, as the higher ups won't tell anybody about the big bad records they keep in their personal data vaults.

 

And, i'm pretty sure they do need the Omnissiah, as they worship him as the entirety of all knowledge combined. Or machines. Maybe both ;) So they would get pretty screwed if they stopped worshipping him, as their would be no need to search for lost information, and no beliefs laying a limit on what and what not they can develo/create. The Omnissiah is there partially as a stopper to prevent everybody from going crazy and trying to make Necron/Tau/Eldar substitutes for everything.

 

So they don't need him? Maybe. But that would be like humanity having no religion. And i am a athiest, and even i can tell that would be a bad idea. ;)

[DarkCrusader]

I thought the Omnissiah was an idea, not a actual being. Like worshipping the Emperor as a farm-god when your on a agri-world. And i'm pretty sure the AdMech, and everyone else have...conflicting views on the Omnissiah-Emperor deal, as the higher ups won't tell anybody about the big bad records they keep in their personal data vaults.

 

And, i'm pretty sure they do need the Omnissiah, as they worship him as the entirety of all knowledge combined. Or machines. Maybe both :huh: So they would get pretty screwed if they stopped worshipping him, as their would be no need to search for lost information, and no beliefs laying a limit on what and what not they can develo/create. The Omnissiah is there partially as a stopper to prevent everybody from going crazy and trying to make Necron/Tau/Eldar substitutes for everything.

 

So they don't need him? Maybe. But that would be like humanity having no religion. And i am a athiest, and even i can tell that would be a bad idea. :P

 

I totaly agree...I also thought the omnissiah was an entity.....But i know religion is a big part of 40k culture.but im geussing there are people that deviate from the religions there just as there are people here... :huh:

[Ring-around-the-roses]

Indeed. Except in 40k they tend to have very stringent talks with the Titan Legions when they disagree with the High Magos.

[DarkCrusader]

i guess im also forgetting that these guys arent essentially their 'own people'.They're more of clones..so i geuss they would either only deviate a small bit or deviate totaly(chaos marines)

[Ring-around-the-roses]

Wait, are we talking about Marines or Admech.

 

AdMech tend to be almost totally the same, except for those who are either a) have combat experience or :P lead expeditions. They are less respected/more deviant than their brethren, so the reason for their posting. A good way to get rid of their 'quirks'

 

Adeptus Astartes aren't literally carbon copies, as some personality quirks are left over when they are mind-conditioned. Over time, these quirks become more pronounced, leading to the favouring of certain tactics, different personalities and certain character traits. Example, Sicarius vs Agemneman (?) who although both widely respected Captains of the Ultramarines, are politically and tactically polar opposites.

[DarkCrusader]

That was my idea of it..each hav a quirk but are each esentialy a rough copy of the primarch(and seeing as the primarch is the rough copy of the emperor...)but thats just my view..thanks agen guys for all the feedback.please keep it coming :P

[Ring-around-the-roses]

Need....to see.....IA.... ;)

[thade]

Okay, I think I get your question now? The answer is still no. <3 They need the Omnissiah and their Machine Spirit.

 

Science is dead. Deader than dead. It is forgotten. The scientific method, research, legit design and learning...gone. Now they light candles, chant, and wave incense around at things...also pushing buttons in a methodic, ritualistic way, until crap works again. Why? Because they forgot how to do it otherwise and that stuff is dangerous. Screw up on a LR and its ancient AIs ("machine spirit") might kick in all bugged ("succumb to its rage/become possessed") and level a city before you can talk it down. The future is a fearful, suspicious place full of people who've fallen back on ritual as a safety net to make sure everything is done by the book.

 

If you haven't read the Lexicanum entries on Ad Mech and Mars, you should do so. Also, I hear the Mechanum book from the HH series is very enlightening. The Emperor trapped something deep in Mars and its presence literally boosts the tech savvy of those near enough to it. It is, I suspect, a very big part of the reason that tech marines go specifically to Mars for training. While at Mars, they are steeped in hypnotic indoctrination and come out of there able to wield a wrench and attributing that power to the Omnissiah/Emperor.

 

It is so fundamental to the fluff, that the only way a Techmarine - or any technician - could turn to "pure, real science" from "the Omnissiah" is to go heretic.

[Ring-around-the-roses]

One of the rare times turning to Chaos will make you both less ritualistic and more grounded.

[thade]

One of the rare times turning to Chaos will make you both less ritualistic and more grounded.

Actually, that's not what I meant (believe it or not).

 

Not all heretics have turned to Chaos; more accurately, not all renegades have turned to Chaos. Some are pirates. Some have gone and joined up with the Tau Empire (which does have science). Some just abandoned ship and have been hanging out on one of a million worlds that were lost or forgotten. The Imperium is massive beyond measure and it takes hundreds of years for paperwork to propagate. And there is paper work. It more or less accounts for most of Terra. ;)

 

Of course, from the perspective of the Imperium, that is Chaos, no? So it's difficult ground.

 

Alright, I've played devil's advocate enough. Let's see if I can help make this work in the fluff.

 

You say your chapter hates the Inquisition. No sweat; the same can be said of the Space Wolves...but they get away with it because 1. they're a first founding chapter...older than that...they were one of the pre-Heresy legions. 2. They're Adeptus Astartes and the Ordos keep their noses out of it, so to speak, unless things get really bad. The Ecclesiarchy once took a shot at the Space Wolves homeworld...it didn't go well for them.

 

So, if your chapter is sufficiently old...say, I dunno...pre 14th founding? I'd go for 3rd or 4th...and over the millenia their tech marine cults actually start to develop science, then they could swing it. MAY BE. Trouble is (yes, more trouble) that science will see a spurt at the early stages of war then completely stagnate as the war goes on (as all resources are put to the war effort itself). We're in the 40th millenium of total warfare, so we're well beyond the stage where science has had a chance to get a lick of funding, let alone flurish. The Tau had peace for much of that time, which is why their tech is so advanced and fancy. The Eldar too (for thousands of years pre-humanity's appearance on the scene). We spent too much time blowing each other up; it's only gotten worse post-Heresy.

 

Maybe your chapter is super old and they found some STC long ago that they weren't able to turn over to Ad Mech right away due to being on a very, very, very long crusade. By the end of that crusade, their tech marines found that they were able to train tech marines themselves due to the power of this STC...maybe it's something stupid amazing, like "how to build a tech marine".

 

As you can imagine, if this came to light, Ad Mech would be very displeased with you. You'd stop getting resources from them and it might even come to blows. Lords of Terra mandate that you hand it over, your chapter says "No, because the Emperor clearly chose us to have it"...and your chapter is declared Renegade. Not Chaos, but they're on their own. With Science. <3

[DarkCrusader]

Woh.so much valuable info.thanks thade :( well.the thing is..my chapter is one of those tiny chapters who are tiny because of a geneseed mixing..so no1 is suposd to know this and it wil be clasified info in my IA-the mix was a mix of dorn and russ(the admechs were trying to create a chapter with barbaric strength and strategic finess) so becuz it was a mix riddled with problems i wanted to make it a 21st founding chapter..so i guess i should make it earlier..your views wil be apreciated :D

[Ring-around-the-roses]

I wouldn't go the STC route, as it would be fairly obvious of anyone got a STC, the damn things being rarer than a peace-loving ork. And contain instructions to make uber-weapons or facilities. Finding one, and realising how to decode it, then actually using it would take the kind of balls most chapters don't have. Reason being, they will get purged for not giving it to the AdMech and therefore supporting the Imperium. As in, their brothers would hate them. The Imperium, from the church to the bolter, will kill them. It would take some pretty damn high backing to try and even get away with traitoris extremis in that kind of circumstance. Point being, BA got away with it, and the AdMech are still uber- :( about it.

 

Maybe a Techpriest that has been left on his own in a data library, after a failed expedition. The Chapter rescues him, and he is quite frankly bonkers, so he starts downloading all kinds of AdMech secrets into the Chapter datavaults, to purge himself of the lost knowledge he has swimming around in his brain/ipod. Deed done, he shuts himself down, wipes his memory cores, and is given to the AdMech with no idea of what he has just done. Where he is terminted for not keeping the lost secrets of the data library. Suitably Grimdark, and could happen, maybe :D

 

Let the wholes in this be punched forth.

[DarkCrusader]

I wouldn't go the STC route, as it would be fairly obvious of anyone got a STC, the damn things being rarer than a peace-loving ork. And contain instructions to make uber-weapons or facilities. Finding one, and realising how to decode it, then actually using it would take the kind of balls most chapters don't have. Reason being, they will get purged for not giving it to the AdMech and therefore supporting the Imperium. As in, their brothers would hate them. The Imperium, from the church to the bolter, will kill them. It would take some pretty damn high backing to try and even get away with traitoris extremis in that kind of circumstance. Point being, BA got away with it, and the AdMech are still uber- :( about it.

 

Maybe a Techpriest that has been left on his own in a data library, after a failed expedition. The Chapter rescues him, and he is quite frankly bonkers, so he starts downloading all kinds of AdMech secrets into the Chapter datavaults, to purge himself of the lost knowledge he has swimming around in his brain/ipod. Deed done, he shuts himself down, wipes his memory cores, and is given to the AdMech with no idea of what he has just done. Where he is terminted for not keeping the lost secrets of the data library. Suitably Grimdark, and could happen, maybe :D

 

Let the wholes in this be punched forth.